NY NY - Alice Parsons: Heiress, Long Island, 1937

[Marilynilpa]

I'm not sure. I've searched high and low for the article I remember and I can't find it! Col. shaler doesn't ring a bell but you may be right. Do you have a link? I don't know if I'm right but I remember the figure at $150,000.

BBM

It's Colonel Timothy Shaler Williams.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I don't think Alice was simple minded. I do think she was probably a very kind hearted person who was manipulated by a clever con merchant.

I have been manipulated by somebody way less clever than Anna, because they played on my emotions and knew -exactly- what strings to pull. Did I feel like an idiot later? Yes, I sure did.. because I am pretty darned smart. Still, intellectual smart is not emotionally smart, and I can easily see how a childless woman could come to love a child as her own, and his mother as her dearest friend.. and how that love could be used as leverage.

Alice was duped by people she trusted, and loved, IMO. It happens to the best of us.

Anna was a rather romantic and sympathetic figure - Russian nobility, single mother of a half-Asian child, a tragic widow forced into domestic work by circumstance, and rather more worldly than Alice was ever likely to be. I can really see how the con went.. and how Alice was duped. Poor woman.

BBM

I agree with what you have said with the exception of your description of Anna. Her own daughter-in-law describes her as being very easy to dislike. She was referred to sarcastically by local shopkeepers as "The Countess" because of her overbearing, unpleasant manner.

Which has always made me wonder how Alice was duped by Anna. I agree that Alice's love for Roy made her blind to what was taking place around her. I also believe there may have been a lesbian relationship involved - but this is my gut feeling only and I have never seen anything to corroborate that.

 

[Marilynilpa]

One caveat for those of you who are really digging into this case.

A great many of the newspaper articles are incorrect. This was a HUGE story, and newspapers were rushing to get out the latest information. So many articles contain discrepancies or, in some cases, just outright wrong information.

Also, the manner in which Anna came to work for Alice and William is often reported incorrectly. Anna never worked for anyone known to the family prior to working for Alice and William. She was referred to them by an employment agency via the YMCA. I'm not certain how the YMCA entered into it, but that is the info I found in the National Archives files.

The descriptions of the Parsons estate aren't always accurate. It was an approximately 12 acre estate, yet I have seen it reported as being up to 33 acres.

There are many more examples, but I won't bore everyone by listing them all here.

I've found that the Suffolk County newspapers were much more reliable than the major newspapers. JMO.

I hope everyone has as much fun researching this case as I did. I have to admit that having all of these new sets of eyes looking into this has been a learning experience for me, and I'm loving it.

If anyone has any specific questions, I'll do my best to answer them; otherwise, I'm going to stand back and let you guys do your thing.

 

[zwiebel]

You've got to get the book finished so we can all read it, Marilynilpa!

Here is the link to the media and timeline link. All we have to do is copy all the links there now.......
Anybody here good at timelines?

NY Alice Parsons: Media links and timeline. - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

ETA Maybe best if we all post only our own articles we found, to save any repetition?

 

[zwiebel]

I have just realised that article I linked in the Alex Palace forum says Alice was left $150,000 by William Sammies. Who is he? That's a completely new one to me????
ETA; here's link to article: http://tinyurl.com/ce6kxon

Just bumping my post about the $150k, which I finally found.

 

[Pink Panther]

BBM

It's Colonel Timothy Shaler Williams.

Her uncle? Her mother's brother? He died shortly before she disappeared???

 

[Pink Panther]

Also, the manner in which Anna came to work for Alice and William is often reported incorrectly. Anna never worked for anyone known to the family prior to working for Alice and William. She was referred to them by an employment agency via the YMCA. I'm not certain how the YMCA entered into it, but that is the info I found in the National Archives files.

The descriptions of the Parsons estate aren't always accurate. It was an approximately 12 acre estate, yet I have seen it reported as being up to 33 acres.

The Parsons, via their census records employed Russian help for several decades, so...while the connection may have been made through the YMCA, I wouldn't be surprised if their own trusted help didn't intervene to recommend as well...(Just thinking out loud).

Also - "the Parsons estate" is something that really bothers me. Was it Alice's estate or Williams? I get the impression that it belonged to Alice but that William was happy to have people assume it was his? Do you know who it belonged to legally?

 

[zwiebel]

And it was William Sammies who had already left Alice $150,000. Not sure what relation he was - through the Pratts? The link's on bottom of previous page.

Now, where did all that money go? She only left $43,000 in her will.....

 

[zwiebel]

I've been thinking Anna just miscalculated by (possibly/probably)disappearing Alice just before she inherited $104,000.

But maybe she had already managed to gain a large part of that first $150,000, which was worth about $15 million, by today's standards, I think?

 

[Marilynilpa]

The Parsons, via their census records employed Russian help for several decades, so...while the connection may have been made through the YMCA, I wouldn't be surprised if their own trusted help didn't intervene to recommend as well...(Just thinking out loud).

Also - "the Parsons estate" is something that really bothers me. Was it Alice's estate or Williams? I get the impression that it belonged to Alice but that William was happy to have people assume it was his? Do you know who it belonged to legally?

I'm not certain about whose money was used to purchase the house and property. I do know that Alice was by far the wealthier of the two.

 

[zwiebel]

The sale notice I linked earlier said it had been sold for $15,000, in 1940 something. I presume it was worth less when Alice vanished. That was obviously a lot of money then, but it gets dwarfed into insignificance by the amounts of money Alice either inherited, or was due to inherit.

I'm increasingly thinking this was a crime of passion, more than money (though I think that played a part).

 

[Pink Panther]

I've been thinking Anna just miscalculated by (possibly/probably)disappearing Alice just before she inherited $104,000.

But maybe she had already managed to gain a large part of that first $150,000, which was worth about $15 million, by today's standards, I think?

I think that both Anna and William had made some assumptions that were incorrect.

On a side note - I have not been able to find a William Sammies that was related to Alice??? Could the name be spelt a different way?

 

[fred&edna]

I think that both Anna and William had made some assumptions that were incorrect.

On a side note - I have not been able to find a William Sammies that was related to Alice??? Could the name be spelt a different way?

I think it could be "Sammis"
I made a note (but can't find the link) regarding Alice's estate:

22/72 interest in 4784 acre tract
Shoreland at Lloyd Neck
10/72 interest in a 25.847 acre estage
known as Woodhull-Sammis plot
at Long Neck
and together w/husband the 21 acre
Long Meadow Farm at Stony Brook


I don't know if this is associated but...
http://www.streetviewandmaps.com/en/map/us/645043-Silas-Sammis-House/

 

[Pink Panther]

I think it could be "Sammis"
I made a note (but can't find the link) regarding Alice's estate:

22/72 interest in 4784 acre tract
Shoreland at Lloyd Neck
10/72 interest in a 25.847 acre estage
known as Woodhull-Sammis plot
at Long Neck
and together w/husband the 21 acre
Long Meadow Farm at Stony Brook


I don't know if this is associated but...
http://www.streetviewandmaps.com/en/map/us/645043-Silas-Sammis-House/

Yes! It is Sammis! I had read in an article that Alice had inherited an interest in the "Sammi house"!

Thank you!

 

[Pink Panther]

Here's an article I haven't seen posted yet.

It's interesting because Anna states that Roy's "father was British economist named Sanler, whom she had married in England, and who was killed in an automobile accident in 1930."

It also has a photograph of Alice that I haven't seen before which possibly (my suspicion) also shows Anna and Roy!

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1955&dat=19370613&id=wOQxAAAAIBAJ&pg=2282,2901486

 

[Marilynilpa]

Here's an article I haven't seen posted yet.

It's interesting because Anna states that Roy's "father was British economist named Sanler, whom she had married in England, and who was killed in an automobile accident in 1930."

It also has a photograph of Alice that I haven't seen before which possibly (my suspicion) also shows Anna and Roy!

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1955&dat=19370613&id=wOQxAAAAIBAJ&pg=2282,2901486

Those aren't Anna and Roy, unfortunately. This photo was taken of Alice while she was waiting in line while shopping. The original photo includes a number of customers, they just clipped it to focus on Alice.

I always find Anna's comments interesting with regards to her past. She wasn't wedded to the truth by any means!

 

[zwiebel]

Brilliant find, Pink Panther! I am even more curious about Roy's father and what happened to him now.

 

[fred&edna]

Here's an article I haven't seen posted yet.

It's interesting because Anna states that Roy's "father was British economist named Sanler, whom she had married in England, and who was killed in an automobile accident in 1930."

It also has a photograph of Alice that I haven't seen before which possibly (my suspicion) also shows Anna and Roy!

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1955&dat=19370613&id=wOQxAAAAIBAJ&pg=2282,2901486

This possibly links back to my post earlier
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY NY - Alice Parsons: Heiress, Long Island, 1937

Not Sanler (but a british/indian economist)

 

[Pink Panther]

Her uncle? Her mother's brother? He died shortly before she disappeared???

From what I've been able to find Col. Timothy S Williams (Alice's maternal uncle) died in 1930. Several years before Alice disappeared. Perhaps portions of her inheritance were depended on her reaching a certain age or properties being sold, etc...?

 

[Marilynilpa]

From what I've been able to find Col. Timothy S Williams (Alice's maternal uncle) died in 1930. Several years before Alice disappeared. Perhaps portions of her inheritance were depended on her reaching a certain age or properties being sold, etc...?

I'll need to check my research, but I believe there was some sort of trust involved with Alice's money. I can't recall why it was in trust. Let me dig around and see if I can put my hands on it. If not, I have a dozen or so boxes I keep stored elsewhere that I can go through.