NY NY - Brooklyn, E 23rd St & Ave P, WhtFem 40-50, UP5639, Prominent Facial Hair, poss intersex, Nov'05

[Susikatze]

But wouldnt PCOS be visible at autopsy? (I think Orange Socks/Debra Jackson had visible PCOS in autopsy)
Likewise if the person was intersex.

 

[victoriarobinson642]

I've touched up Brooklyn Doe's photo a bit - I wasn't sure how intense their freckles were, so they're a bit more toned down.

 

[madamx]

Bumping

 

[Goecke]

But wouldnt PCOS be visible at autopsy? (I think Orange Socks/Debra Jackson had visible PCOS in autopsy)
Likewise if the person was intersex.

I just saw this, and it would be if they had any ovarian cysts. But if they didn't have any cysts (just the high androgen levels) it wouldn't be detectable.
And if they're intersex, it probably depends. If it was more obvious like ambiguous genitals, missing reproductive organs etc then they'd be able to tell in an autopsy, but there's also intersex people with less 'obvious' symptoms.

 

[snakes]

Battery is low, but it's important to post a few links regarding Intersexness. I'm sure I have better links saved somewhere, but hopefully these will be better than nothing. (One includes a link to a downloadable info sheet).

https://www.minus18.org.au/articles/i'm-intersex:-here's-what-that-means

Intersex

https://interactadvocates.org/faq/

How common is intersex? | Intersex Society of North America

It's important to recognize that existing while transgender and/or intersex isn't some fanciful notion dismissed by Occam's Razor.

Around 1 in 100 births differ from standard male/female binary; 1 in 1500 to 1 in 2000 differ 'noticeably' enough to involve consultation with a sex differentiation specialist.

Noonan's Syndrome with Multiple Lentigens (one condition mentioned as a valid possibility), on the other hand, is considered rare -- with only 200 cases known, worldwide.
Noonan syndrome with multiple lentigines: MedlinePlus Genetics

 

[Giuc0]

Since she was intersex, an interesting resource found on DDP website about a transgender JD solved by DDP: https://transdoetaskforce.org/

And yes, intersex is within their scope.

Any suspicion of LGBT, transgender, intersex, no clear gender... is within their scope.

 

[victoriarobinson642]

The TDTF already has this doe on their map.

 

[Punkramona]

I find this case interesting and would love to help this individual get their name back! I am a member of the LGBTQ+ community and may be able to speak about some possible reasons this UID may present in both masculine and feminine ways, but it could also be due to a medical condition. There are many reasons they may have both male and female characteristics some of these were mentioned in earlier comments. PCOS, non-binary or transgender, this could mean they could be MTF or FTM and could be taking gender affirming hormones which would be estrogen or testosterone. They could also had gender affirming surgery, although this would have likely been listed on their NAMUS. Some people are born intersex and may have a unique set of chromosomes such as xxy, etc. Hypothyroidism is a common cause of extra body hair in females as it throws all your hormones off balance, or they may have extra testosterone. Overall i will continue to look in this case and update this thread.

 

[Bit of hope]

I find this case interesting and would love to help this individual get their name back! I am a member of the LGBTQ+ community and may be able to speak about some possible reasons this UID may present in both masculine and feminine ways, but it could also be due to a medical condition. There are many reasons they may have both male and female characteristics some of these were mentioned in earlier comments. PCOS, non-binary or transgender, this could mean they could be MTF or FTM and could be taking gender affirming hormones which would be estrogen or testosterone. They could also had gender affirming surgery, although this would have likely been listed on their NAMUS. Some people are born intersex and may have a unique set of chromosomes such as xxy, etc. Hypothyroidism is a common cause of extra body hair in females as it throws all your hormones off balance, or they may have extra testosterone. Overall i will continue to look in this case and update this thread.

Hi and welcome @Punkramona. Thank you for posting and thinking with us.

 

[BigKeyManatee]

Per NamUs, there are 6 missing persons exclusions for this Doe.

MP23641 Diane Cusack

MP393 Bettina Scott

MP7584 Parley Pate

MP5619 Darla Crist

MP3091 Emily Herr

MP490 Tina D'Ambrosio

 

[BigKeyManatee]

Bump
No new rule outs.
Sad to see this person remain unnamed.

 

[EmiliaRT007]

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs) POSTMORTEM PHOTO AT LINK WARNING
This case is so odd to me. Why is no gender at birth even able to be determined despite this person being very much recognizable? Based on the probability that this individual was assigned female at birth and the prominent beard, I’m willing to guess this was a transmasculine individual or a trans man. I will use male pronouns to describe the decedent.

On November 6, 2005, an individual was found kneeling at a park bench on northeast corner of 23rd Street and Avenue P.

The decedent was white, in his 40s, and likely assigned female at birth but his gender identity is unclear. I personally think he was a transgender man based on how he looked and how he was described as most likely being assigned female at birth. He had brown 9 inch long wavy hair and brown eyes.

He was 5’5” (165 cm) and weighed 147 pounds (67 kg). He was wearing a green jacket, a brown blouse, brown sneakers, and blue jeans.

I think this was a transgender man who took testosterone, perhaps a gender variant individual who presented more masculine, or an intersex individual who may have had more prominent male characteristics but was genetically female, maybe just a woman with hirsutism? I know some women can grow full on beards, like me for example, I can grow a beard about an inch long, due to hirsutism.

 

[killarney rose]

I’m not sure how to go about finding it, but I’m fairly certain this person already has a thread here.

 

[phantomstrider]

I’m not sure how to go about finding it, but I’m fairly certain this person already has a thread here.

I just checked I can’t find any thread beside this one for this John Doe.

 

[killarney rose]

Since there isn’t a name for the UID I’m not sure how to go about finding it. But I’ll try when I’m able to get back on my iPad. I’m on my phone right now.

 

[phantomstrider]

Since there isn’t a name for the UID I’m not sure how to go about finding it. But I’ll try when I’m able to get back on my iPad. I’m on my phone right now.

I usually type in the namus case number in the search tab

 

[killarney rose]

Found it!

NY - NY - Brooklyn, E 23rd St & Ave P, WhtFem 40-50, UP5639, Prominent Facial Hair, poss intersex, Nov'05

If she has already a thread please delete.. I could not find one here so decided to make one.. there is a Postmortem on the links. This woman has what looks like to be a beard and mustache and facial hair around her face or freckles I cannot really tell. Anyway she has had a lot of activity I...

www.websleuths.com

 

[phantomstrider]

Found it!

NY - NY - Brooklyn, E 23rd St & Ave P, WhtFem 40-50, UP5639, Prominent Facial Hair, poss intersex, Nov'05

If she has already a thread please delete.. I could not find one here so decided to make one.. there is a Postmortem on the links. This woman has what looks like to be a beard and mustache and facial hair around her face or freckles I cannot really tell. Anyway she has had a lot of activity I...

www.websleuths.com

In the title it says UF5639 instead of UP5639 that’s probably why I couldn’t find it.

 

[madamx]

Bumping

 

[Beccalicious]

Bumping