I was thinking the mod of this forum or Carl would submit her if they thought it was close or potential. I have no idea how to do it and I don't know who has contacted the detectives on this case in the past. Generally, I would assume one person would be the contact person who has already asked questions or what not? I know if I was a detective, I would much rather have one or two contacts rather than 50 people email the same thing. LOL. It seems more professional...
Match! NY - Caledonia, WhtFem 1UFNY, 13-19, Turquoise Necklace, Nov'79 *Tammy Alexander*
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I checked Ancestry to see if Eileen's age was correctly noted. Her DOB is 06-Feb-1957, so she was 19 on 01-Jun-1976 (the listed DLC), and she would have been almost 23 in November 1979 (when Cali died).
I can't imagine that they would have underestimated her age by that much
I can't imagine that they would have underestimated her age by that much
Thanks Carl. Just curious, this is about learning for me, can you think of other cases where age was judged incorrectly? Maybe due to body build, stature and even malnutrition? I know as a petite female, I have been questioned about "breaking curfew" by police when I was out having a drink with friends at age 25. LOL. How do they determine age with a UID? And in a case this old, is it possible there was an error? Also, given Eileen kind of matches, is it worth submitting to help a family bring closure...if it happens to be her? Thanks again! I am learning a lot!
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The bones of a teenager are very markedly different from those of a 23-year old.
They normally judge age by evaluating dentition and growth plates in their long bones. The growth plates in various bones fuse in a specific sequence at various ages. So by observing which growth plates are fused and which are not, a teenager's age can be estimated within about a 1-3 year range.
Estimating the age of adults (early 20's and older) is a little less accurate, but for teenagers and small children, they can very accurately estimate their age.
Errors have occurred in other instances, but very rarely for teens and children. Given the attention that this Jane Doe has been given (the body was exhumed and re-examined), I doubt that they would make that big of an error.
They estimate that Cali was 13-19. She was probably 15-17, and they tagged on an additional 2 years on both ends to allow for anomalies.
They normally judge age by evaluating dentition and growth plates in their long bones. The growth plates in various bones fuse in a specific sequence at various ages. So by observing which growth plates are fused and which are not, a teenager's age can be estimated within about a 1-3 year range.
Estimating the age of adults (early 20's and older) is a little less accurate, but for teenagers and small children, they can very accurately estimate their age.
Errors have occurred in other instances, but very rarely for teens and children. Given the attention that this Jane Doe has been given (the body was exhumed and re-examined), I doubt that they would make that big of an error.
They estimate that Cali was 13-19. She was probably 15-17, and they tagged on an additional 2 years on both ends to allow for anomalies.
Harmony 2
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I think Karen Lynn Zendrosky bears a strong resemblance. She went missing October 23, 1979 from Bordentown Township, Mercer County, New Jersey.
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1667dfnj.html
Bordentown Township is approximately 6 hours away.
http://goo.gl/maps/ZGEA
Karen is not on the rule-out list. There are a few differences in eye color, weight and a scar is mentioned on Karen's identifying information. Age and height is spot on.
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1667dfnj.html
Bordentown Township is approximately 6 hours away.
http://goo.gl/maps/ZGEA
Karen is not on the rule-out list. There are a few differences in eye color, weight and a scar is mentioned on Karen's identifying information. Age and height is spot on.
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Wanting2Help
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Karen was suggested as a possible match back in 2009, post #243 & 258 but I don't see where she was ruled out or if she was ever submitted...
I think Karen does look a bit like her especially her nose.
Wanting2Help
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Harmony 2
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Yes, I was just now going back through the thread reading and noted others had posted about her a while back...She is not on the rule-out list. Moreover, it is not clear if she was submitted...
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I think Eileen should be submitted also...she has a very close resemblance IMO.
Wanting2Help
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I do too. Who wants to call it in?
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Wanting2help,
If you don't want to, I will. I guess it can't hurt even though Eileen is a little older than what Cali Doe's age is listed as. She hasn't been identified thus far.
I am wondering why Karen Lynn Zendrosky isn't on the rule out list. I thought she was ruled out. The last update made to NamUS was May 7th. They have 17 exclusions now.
It says on NamUs they have 19, but they listed Mary Shinn 3 times... LOL
Teresa Alfonso 1961 Florida
Lisa Borden 1960 Texas
Melinda Creech 1965 Indiana
Karen Kamsch 1962 Maryland
Tina Kemp 1964 Delaware
Deborah McCall 1963 Illinois
Angela Meeker 1965 Washington
Barbara Monaco 1960 Virginia
Marcia Remick 1962 Virginia
Simone Ridinger 1960 Massachusetts
Mary Shinn 1953 Arkansas
Debra Spickler 1955 Connecticut
Sarah Tokier 1960 California
Belinda VanLith 1957 Minnesota
Anna Waters 1967 California
Christina White 1967 Washington
April Zane 1960 Illinois
Wanting2Help
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Will you call it in? I won't be able to call for a couple of days at least with my work schedule. Should Karen be suggested too since several people have mentioned the possible match and she has not yet been submitted (at least to my knowledge)?
Thanks!
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Yes I will! I actually have more time here at work than I do in my personal life... I will make the call. I will let you know what I hear.
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I left a message for the Case Mgr listed on Cali's NamUs profile. I hope he takes it seriously and doesn't think I am some crazy nut case....
Off topic, but my hubby texted me to see how my day was going, I told him I was calling in a possible match, His response: "you are messed up".. but he knows this is my weird hobby that I hold close to my heart.
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Okay, so I'm not new to sleuthing, just new to this site, so forgive me if I seem to just jump right in. We're calling Cali's chicken pock mark a mole and it's not, it's an obvious chicken pock mark. Take a serious look at the post-mortem side photo show casing her ear. There is a very noticeable crater, not a pigment. Now take a more detailed look at her face. She has had chicken pox, and was going through the obvious stages of puberty because her skin was breaking out. I would put her absolutely no higher than 19. Just a hunch, also, Irish/Spanish decent, maybe Irish/Italian.
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Thanks for calling it in. I wouldn't even know where to start.
No problem. I haven't heard back anything. Maybe if I don't by the end of today, I will contact Eileen's contacts.
emchamberlain
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Okay, I was not originally on board with this before because of several inconsistencies between the two cases, which I will list shortly, however, the physical atributes are so incredibly similar, there is room for speculation. Here are my lists of what I consider "inconsistencies":
Cali Doe:
1) Seemingly wanted to run away, due to her use of transitional transportation, purchases of truckstop memerobelia, freedom to eat in a diner, and her vagabond clothing.
2) Cali Doe's hair is on the shorter side of shoulder length, with self-placed hilights, and a home perm.
3) Cali Doe shows no signs of ever going to a dentist or a doctor.
4) Any witness to her movement claimed she seemed to be headed north.
5) Cali Doe was found dead in November.
Karen Lynn Zendrosky:
1) Was out bowling with her sister, wearing yellow overalls and a hoodie.
2) She was seen talking to a boy who was in a car with other boys.
3) She was never seen or heard from again after that night, that night being Oct. 8th, approx.
4) She was from NJ.
5) It did not appear that she left of her own free will.
6) Her hair was long, dark, straight, and thick.
7) Karen was a suburbanite and had been to the doctor and dentist at least once.
So here are my biggest holes in the theory that they are the same person:
1) Who would take Karen, drive around with her alive for a month in a 200 mi radius, dress her up in boyish clothing, home perm her hair, hand frost the top, and then shoot her in the head and the back, without and sexual assault? It just doesn't add up for me. They very much look alike, their stories just don't mesh. Cali feels like a classic run-away to me, and Karen's case, sorry to say it, feels a lot like Natalie Holloway's, in that she trusted one guy, not knowing how many there would end up being, there was likely an assault, someone freaked, and her body is lying somewhere in New Jersey.
Does anyone else see what I see?
2) There is the other option of abduction and forced prostitution, which to me, makes their stories more congruent and creates an explination as to why Karen's look would be so altered, but I feel like that's the only alternative to the scenario I see.
Am I wrong?
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I was really puzzled as to why a grown woman would call up a show, trying to be of assistance, and say something like "Venjiont", being completely off the mark for so many years and stumping so many people. I decided to take some time today, since my little one REFUSES to nap, and do some research on the term "Venjiont", and ladies and gents, I may have cracked it. Now I can't be sure, but here's what I've got:
1) A company in Fulton, NY called VenJoint
2) Fulton, NY had a city, a little coal mining town that was known as Venjoint, or Venjiont, people said it differently as people do, it was also known as Old Fulton. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...wJDyCQ&usg=AFQjCNGkpIFy0OeSL09oD7CJgJMw9ngJLg
This may be the "Venjiont", "Venjoint", New York State connection we've been looking for. Maybe she got her clothes from a Goodwill or Salvation Army while up in that area? Anyone know the Fulton area? Is it near where she was found? Was anyone questioned in that region about her disappearance?
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