Match! NY - Caledonia, WhtFem 1UFNY, 13-19, Turquoise Necklace, Nov'79 *Tammy Alexander*

[CarlK90245]

I have a question CarlK. Cali phenotypically resembles LMH. Not that you would contact LMH...but has LE ever used ethnicity, race, etc to identify potential areas a person came from? I.e...certain places in Indiana have a high population of German heritage and they have distinct features, etc. So...in a situation like Cali looking like LMH, if they knew LMHs origins (parental, ancestry, etc) could that help. I am just wondering if that type of identification has ever occurred. Total invasion of privacy, but, just curious. Thanks.

I can't imagine that an approach like that would lead us anywhere meaningful. The U.S. is such a melting pot with such a mobile population that it would be virtually impossible to construct such a database.

And despite her spot-on resemblance, I doubt that she is in any way related to Cali, and would not even want to go that route of contacting a stranger to ask "Hey you look like UID x. Do you have a missing twin? (or close relative?)". I've tried similar outreaches via FB (not exactly like that but similar), and usually I get no response. I don't like doing that very often, as I'm sure that the recipients find it quite disturbing.

I just tried it a few days ago with the apparent brother of a possible match to Woodlawn Jane Doe whom I spotted in a HS yearbook, to ask if his sister's whereabouts can be accounted for since 1976. He didn't respond, and we were able to subsequently rule her out by other means.

 

[carbuff]

It makes her seem older as well IMO. Her morgue picture looks so young. Like just barely a teenager. This recon makes her look well into teen years if not late teens. The early recons and sketches have 13 years old beside it. Does anyone know what age that actually think she is or is it just a large range of anywhere in her teens?

I know I'm in the minority on this, but I've never thought she looked that young.

 

[CarlK90245]

It makes her seem older as well IMO. Her morgue picture looks so young. Like just barely a teenager. This recon makes her look well into teen years if not late teens. The early recons and sketches have 13 years old beside it. Does anyone know what age that actually think she is or is it just a large range of anywhere in her teens?

The early recons that you are referring to were age regression drawings to depict what she might have looked like when she was younger. They are working on the premise that she might have been a runaway who hadn't been seen by her family since she was 12 or 13.

They note that on the drawings, but many people probably don't notice, and think it is supposed to be what she looked like at the time of death.

 

[carbuff]

I stumbled across this girl when I clicked the wrong link on a search for something else. She's Patricia Chesher, who went missing in 1969 at age 12 from Albuquerque, New Mexico. That would make her 22 in 1979, which is a bit too old. She was very small in 1969, only 4' tall and 69 pounds, but she could have grown after that.

Usually I go by circumstances, which are unlikely at best, because I'm not good at the face match thing. But in this case, I see so much resemblance that I wanted to run it by everybody else.

Patricia's Charley page: http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/chesher_patricia.html
Doenetwork: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2893dfnm.html
NamUs: https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/8865/0/

Okay, now you can laugh at me and tell me it's ridiculous...

 

[danzn16]

The early recons that you are referring to were age regression drawings to depict what she might have looked like when she was younger. They are working on the premise that she might have been a runaway who hadn't been seen by her family since she was 12 or 13.

They note that on the drawings, but many people probably don't notice, and think it is supposed to be what she looked like at the time of death.

The picture I was referring to was her morgue photo. I thought she looked very young. I didn't realize her other drawings were regressions though, interesting.

 

[micheleonelonly]

I stumbled across this girl when I clicked the wrong link on a search for something else. She's Patricia Chesher, who went missing in 1969 at age 12 from Albuquerque, New Mexico. That would make her 22 in 1979, which is a bit too old. She was very small in 1969, only 4' tall and 69 pounds, but she could have grown after that.

Usually I go by circumstances, which are unlikely at best, because I'm not good at the face match thing. But in this case, I see so much resemblance that I wanted to run it by everybody else.

Holy smokes, those noses! You could have a good possible here... Not sure if I would worry about height... 4 feet tall on a 12 year old is TINY. That's like, the size I expect for an 8 year old. I wonder if that's really accurate. Wouldn't be the first time an MP profile had errors... </cynical>

Patricia's story is interesting, she left to sell raffle tickets, but she is believed to have run away? I wonder why they think that. Maybe she left a note, or took some belongings? The Charley page didn't mention anything like that, so I wonder...

 

[carbuff]

Holy smokes, those noses! You could have a good possible here... Not sure if I would worry about height... 4 feet tall on a 12 year old is TINY. That's like, the size I expect for an 8 year old. I wonder if that's really accurate. Wouldn't be the first time an MP profile had errors... </cynical>

Patricia's story is interesting, she left to sell raffle tickets, but she is believed to have run away? I wonder why they think that. Maybe she left a note, or took some belongings? The Charley page didn't mention anything like that, so I wonder...

Yeah, that was my reaction to the nose. The height bothers me only to the extent that a girl that tiny might not have grown up to even 5'3".

I haven't been able to find anything at all about her except what's on Charley. She's listed everywhere, even on some sites I've never been to before, but they all have the exact same information.

Gonna see if I can find anything in the google newspaper archives later today...

 

[osadelnorte]

I stumbled across this girl when I clicked the wrong link on a search for something else. She's Patricia Chesher, who went missing in 1969 at age 12 from Albuquerque, New Mexico. That would make her 22 in 1979, which is a bit too old. She was very small in 1969, only 4' tall and 69 pounds, but she could have grown after that.

Usually I go by circumstances, which are unlikely at best, because I'm not good at the face match thing. But in this case, I see so much resemblance that I wanted to run it by everybody else.

Patricia's Charley page: http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/chesher_patricia.html
Doenetwork: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2893dfnm.html
NamUs: https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/8865/0/

Okay, now you can laugh at me and tell me it's ridiculous...

Carbuff, I am not laughing. You could be onto to something. I happen to live in Albuquerque, though this girl went missing before I was even born. But she does occasionally come up in the news. I'm almost positive I've seen her in the city PD's missing persons/open case section on their website and I have seen bits about her on TV every now and then. Given that we have reason to believe Cali came from the SW, this could be very possible. Can this be submitted to the PD where Cali was found?

 

[osadelnorte]

Okay, I tried to find Patricia on the Albuquerque PD's website but they have recently changed all the city and government pages and I'm having some trouble. I found an entry for her on NCMEC though; is there anything different here from the other pages linked to? It's really interesting to think about this connection. If I remember correctly from the page I can no longer find, she went missing near her home in a pretty industrial part of the city; I think it was within a block or two of the state fairgrounds. I have no idea what it was like there in the 1960's, but it is not a nice neighborhood today. There is much crime, especially gang- and drug-related, and a fair amount of prostitution as well. But it may have been much nicer back then, I really have no idea.

NCMEC listing for Patricia Chesher

 

[carbuff]

I found this article from the Albuquerque Journal a couple of years ago, on Porchlight: http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/index.php?showtopic=56520

It sounds like she had plenty of cause to run away. And that the place was swarming with suspects -- egad. It says one of the sisters had a boyfriend who went crazy because he thinks he did it, but I don't think I'd take the word of a crazy boy for something like that and there doesn't seem to be any evidence. Possible, though.

 

[osadelnorte]

Wow, thanks for that article, Carbuff! I had never seen it before. It sounds like there were way too many weirdos in her life and in the neighborhood. Honestly, it doesn't surprise me, given what I know of the area today. That's very upsetting. What a sad case.

 

[carbuff]

Wow, thanks for that article, Carbuff! I had never seen it before. It sounds like there were way too many weirdos in her life and in the neighborhood. Honestly, it doesn't surprise me, given what I know of the area today. That's very upsetting. What a sad case.

Yeah, when I got done with that, I just wanted to cry. The poor girl.

 

[LucyOso]

Has Michelle Mulcany been looked at?

Timeline is reasonable. Height is off...but...I don't know any women who are totally honest with height and weight. Unless, she was measured in an MD's office.

There are also other pictures of her on the Charlie Project. http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/mulcahy_michelle.html

 

[CarlK90245]

Has Michelle Mulcany been looked at?

Timeline is reasonable. Height is off...but...I don't know any women who are totally honest with height and weight. Unless, she was measured in an MD's office.

There are also other pictures of her on the Charlie Project. http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/mulcahy_michelle.html

She has pretty decidedly blue eyes. Cali's are brown.

 

[Nameless Helper]

Is this a possibility? The photos are strikingly similar. And the dental work on the ny body was not from the US?



Missing since 1979 from Queretaro, Mexico
Classification: Missing




Vital Statistics
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'0'' (155 cm)
Distinguishing Characteristics: Dark auburn, curly hair; light brown eyes.




Circumstances of Disappearance
Monica was last seen in 1979 in Queretaro, Mexico



Investigators
If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:

Procuraduria General de la Republica
01-800-00-252-00
53-46-01-00

This particular case has baffled me since it was removed from the Doe Network about five years ago. When I asked one of the Doe Network staff about it, they simply stated that they took it down because the Mexican missing persons site on which Mónica's case was also posted had taken down her profile. That site, Procuraduria General de la Republica (Attorney General's Office) has also ceased to exist. On vBulletin's Official Cold Case Investigation board, Mónica was mentioned in the following thread about Caledonia Jane Doe (post #16) as having recently been connected to a serial killer:

http://officialcoldcaseinvestigation...t=10683&page=2

Unfortunately, when I tried to register with the board to find more information about this development, the site said that it was closed to new members. If anyone here who is a member of that site who could obtain this info for me, it would be greatly appreciated.

The reason I'm trying to find out more about Mónica is because I think she could be a possible match to these Jane Does:

http://doenetwork.org/cases/152ufnj.html

 

[Nameless Helper]

Did any one follow up?

 

[bluecanary]

I believe this possibility was mentioned, but I don't know if it was ever discussed fully - I think Cali bears a strong resemblance to Angela Sigrid Ramsey. Angela was missing since 1977 (not having seen a dentist in two years could account for the poor condition of her teeth), was originally from FL, one of the states mentioned in the pollen test, and was known to hitchhike. She also had friends all over the country, which would account for her ending up in New York. The only thing that leads me to think that this might not be the same person is the fact that, according to the Doe Network, both women's DNA has been entered in CODIS. Does CODIS automatically scan every single entry for matches against all the others, or would a person have to enter certain criteria and do a search? If she hasn't been ruled out already, I'd consider her a good possibility.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/49dffl.html

 

[amber1]

I think it would not hurt to compare the two-they match up stats-wise but I'm not sure on facial features...never hurts to try though

 

[CarlK90245]

I believe this possibility was mentioned, but I don't know if it was ever discussed fully - I think Cali bears a strong resemblance to Angela Sigrid Ramsey. Angela was missing since 1977 (not having seen a dentist in two years could account for the poor condition of her teeth), was originally from FL, one of the states mentioned in the pollen test, and was known to hitchhike. She also had friends all over the country, which would account for her ending up in New York. The only thing that leads me to think that this might not be the same person is the fact that, according to the Doe Network, both women's DNA has been entered in CODIS. Does CODIS automatically scan every single entry for matches against all the others, or would a person have to enter certain criteria and do a search? If she hasn't been ruled out already, I'd consider her a good possibility.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/49dffl.html

Looking at Angela's smiling photo, she has upper front lateral incisors that protrude ahead of her central incisors. The postmortems of Cali show her four front teeth, and her four front teeth appear to be aligned pretty straight with regard to each other.

 

[Nameless Helper]

they do look similar in this picture.
which i believe is a picture of her from the morgue

http://www.nysheriffs.org/missing_persons.htm

scroll down- you'll see her.

the hair also does not appear to be all that frosted in this picture. it could really be the same person.

Was this ever checked out?