Match! NY - Caledonia, WhtFem 1UFNY, 13-19, Turquoise Necklace, Nov'79 *Tammy Alexander*

[Still_Seek_Answers]

I appreciate the many useful links you've provided in this thread. You're referring to this, I think?


I hope it's all right if I clarify:

The paper you linked refers to hydrogen isotopes. (2)H is an abbreviation for deuterium, an isotope of hydrogen sometimes called "heavy hydrogen."

The paper says that (2)H in hair, fingernails, and bone collagen and (18)O (an oxygen isotope) in bones and tooth enamel can be used to investigate geographic origin and migration, but that (2)H in tooth enamel appears not to be useful because the values are fairly stable over different geographical regions. In other words, isotope analysis for adolescence is not discredited as a whole, but according to these researchers you probably don't want to use (2)H1)H from tooth enamel for it.

The information we have on Cali Doe's possible origin from her teeth came from oxygen isotope analysis, probably (18)O16)O.


Anyway, that was just a side line of thought and probably not a very useful one. Better to lean more on the data itself rather than on hand-wavey interpretations of the data.

Oh very nice!!!! Thank you. Your clarification certainly makes the isotope information easier to understand. As for the starches, that I would guess would probably be more of a economic than a regional factor. (only a guess) Many families with limited income make their own breads rather than buying things pre-baked. Yes, Flour was equally affordable and by that time period was being used just as often. So it was another thing that was a matter of personal preference. I can understand why the data would be interrupted to believe the high corn diet was more likely an indicator or certain regions.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Thank you for posting the article Zinc. It is very interesting as well as informative.

I think before any of us can decide how important the large amount of corn in her diet is......we do need to know if it was an excessive amount once you factor in the normal diet.

Your article also helped me understand why they are so focused in on the SW.

 

[momrids6]

I appreciate the many useful links you've provided in this thread. You're referring to this, I think?


I hope it's all right if I clarify:

RSBM:

Yeah! Someone who can translate these type things into understandable English! LOL

We have WS members from the SW- certainly a few of them may be able to remember what was available down there then in terms of product. Cali may also be a military child- one from a certain area and born on a base in the SW/CA area.

Also- there are numerous Indian reservations in NY- wonder what their diets consisted of then? I am 5 generations away from my full blooded ancestor- and my kids & self still cannot tolerate cows milk- a common problem among Native Americans. I would like to know what her MtDNA and DNA tests show.

Part of the analysis was based on lack of newer food additives/artificial ingredients. If the person who cooked for her made most everything from scratch, from ingredients grown on a/their farm- I can imagine a diet pretty free of these too.

I am keeping the SW thing in the back of my mind- but her hairstyle, clothes, and now lack of truckers accounts, etc - keeps me focused on the NE and the I-95 corridor. It is compounded by the fact that I grew up in that area-and no one just decides to hitch/land in Livingston County NY. It is not a great hub for runaway teens. I may not be as intelligent as many on this board- but I do know the area, am within her age group, and as the child of a single parent in the 60's, I was dirt poor too.

The SW theory is also convenient one, imo, for why she was not identified years ago- but I believe her "family" is well aware of what happened to her.

At least with the 2 separate thoughts of where she came from gives us more places to search

ETA: SSA comes up with a great point- did they do any hair analysis?

One more thought: we have an artisian well- my water is loaded in sulphur, whereas city tap water has none. I found a thesis paper from a Utexas student that discusses this very thing- water from both well & tap should be similar, and it looks like that assumption was incorrect, but it was over my head. Can you give any insight into this?

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

That is a very good question Momrids6. I would like to hear from someone who knows how the difference between well and tap water might/would affect the results also.

If there is somebody out there who knows the answer to this question, and would not mind sharing your knowledge.....it would be appreciated!!

 

[momrids6]

Year Submitted: 2008 Livingston County New York is a rural County with many areas not served by a public water system. Approximately 17,000 residents rely on private water supply systems. In Livingston County, it is evident that many private water supplies use a shallow, hand-dug well or a spring as the primary water source. This is mainly due to the prevalence of springs and readily available access to shallow water bearing aquifers.

http://www.naccho.org/topics/modelpractices/database/practice.cfm?PracticeID=478


They have had problems with salt contamination in the aquifers. Also, Livingston Co. has tremendous crops of corn- I wonder how the runoff from the fields would affect the private water supplies?

 

[Nameless Helper]

That is a very good question Momrids6. I would like to hear from someone who knows how the difference between well and tap water might/would affect the results also.

If there is somebody out there who knows the answer to this question, and would not mind sharing your knowledge.....it would be appreciated!!

There is no fluoride in well water. That could explain the cavities.

 

[momrids6]

There is no fluoride in well water. Could explain tr cavities.

crooked wisdom teeth, erupted or not, can cause erosion cavities in the molars next to them too

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Her cavities could be a result of many things.....No fluoride, wisdom teeth.....medications....poor diet......genetics.....and I am sure there are other things......

It is very true Nameless, well water has no fluoride.....it also will not have many of the things used to purify......and etc......but, I was more interested in the minerals and rather or not they could help to narrow down the region she came from. I am sure that some minerals are indigenous to certain locations.

 

[momrids6]

Her cavities could be a result of many things.....No fluoride, wisdom teeth.....medications....poor diet......genetics.....and I am sure there are other things......

It is very true Nameless, well water has no fluoride.....it also will not have many of the things used to purify......and etc......but, I was more interested in the minerals and rather or not they could help to narrow down the region she came from. I am sure that some minerals are indigenous to certain locations.

Lingston had salt mines and canning factories too- which I am sure contributed to the water supply. Seneca foods has a factory there in Mt Morris

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Reads like greek to me.......
http://water.epa.gov/drink/contaminants/index.cfm

http://water.epa.gov/drink/contaminants/index.cfm#Secondary

http://water.epa.gov/lawsregs/rulesregs/sdwa/ucmr/index.cfm

Hard water - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.safewater.org/PDFS/resourcesknowthefacts/TDS_AND _pH.pdf

Minerals and contaminants can also can also be transferred in the most natural of methods.......called rain.

This is just one of those facts that makes a person say......seriously???? Many states charge people for rainwater, and it is illegal to harvest it in some states.

http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinking/private/rainwater-collection.html

Now all I need is somebody to transfer this information into terms that answer my original question. Are there things found in isotope testing that can identify what region someone is from based on minerals in the water?

 

[LucyOso]

Oh very nice!!!! Thank you. Your clarification certainly makes the isotope information easier to understand. As for the starches, that I would guess would probably be more of a economic than a regional factor. (only a guess) Many families with limited income make their own breads rather than buying things pre-baked. Yes, Flour was equally affordable and by that time period was being used just as often. So it was another thing that was a matter of personal preference. I can understand why the data would be interrupted to believe the high corn diet was more likely an indicator or certain regions.

Thank you for posting the article Zinc. It is very interesting as well as informative.

I think before any of us can decide how important the large amount of corn in her diet is......we do need to know if it was an excessive amount once you factor in the normal diet.

Your article also helped me understand why they are so focused in on the SW.

BBM. Great point. I also think we need to know if the corn isotopes are influenced or impacted by corn additives. Seriously, much of the food we eat has corn as an additive...think high fructose corn syrup, starches, etc. Below are some links for those with food allergies to show just how much corn derivatives are in the products we consume. So in defining large amounts of corn, does that include the standard American diet items enriched/modified by corn or are they able to isolate and eliminate corn additives as a source? Isotopes work really well with Paleontology or Archeology as the world wasn't globalized and diet staples were not present in certain regions or limited to upper-class/royalty and I wonder if using it for modern cases will be accurate given food availability and additives?

http://www.livecornfree.com/2010/04/ingredients-derived-from-corn-what-to.html

http://www.cornallergens.com/list/corn-allergen-list.php

 

[LucyOso]

Scars could mean anything; one would be that she had thin skin that cut easily if she rubbed against something. Sounds like most are at her joints

-1/2" scar on forehead at the hairline
-1" scar on front left shoulder
-1/2" scar on outer left ankle
-tiny scar on left knee, right knee, top of right foot, right ankle, inner right thigh
-skin defect that is 3"x1" that resembles an old burn scar on inner right thigh
-Z shaped scar on right shin
-1/2" scar on left forearm
-3 small scars on left index finger

I totally agree. Two things...one she was semi-muscular (according to one report) so she could have played sports or did manual labor (migrant work). Two, certain skin tones from certain ethnicities show scars very easily. If she tanned a bit, the pigment in those scars wold be of a lighter color and make them stand out more as well. Most of us don't count our scars, or our children's, but when I look at my children (right now) they have about the same amount and half of them we can't figure out where they came from. It is not explained if any of these scars were sutured or had misaligned tissue margins (indicating she need sutures, but medical care was not obtained). Or if she had a few scars typical of kids who get chicken-pox, etc. IMOO, I think these scars, while nice to know about, may not help with identification.

 

[CarlK90245]

I've put this flyer on my facebook page. If everyone here would put this on their facebook wall, and ask all their friends to share it, eventually it will end up on the facebook wall of someone who knew one of these girls.

 

[dogperson]

I was a child in Virginia in the 1970s and we ate cornbread every evening. We did buy light bread for sandwiches and toast but generally didn't eat it with any other type of meal. We also grew corn and would cut it off the cob and freeze it for later use. I don't know if they put corn syrup in as many products back then as now. Living not far from the TN border, I can tell you that cornbread was a staple of the diet in that region as well. Normally my mom made homemade biscuits every morning but if she was out of flour we would sometimes just warm up some cornbread, so there was pretty much a pan of cornbread in the house at all times. Although cornbread and other corn products are kind of considered southern foods, I would think anyone from a region where corn grows well would have quite a bit of it in their diet.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Yes, that is how it was in this region (WV) also. Many days we had cornbread with milk poured on it for breakfast. We always had it for dinner, that was just a given. We also ate allot of home made soups and stews....all full of veggies we grew at home....so always full of corn. That was why I asked the water question......was hoping to find out if the minerals in the water she drank/cooked with could narrow the area down any.

 

[Hexe]

My little try on Cali. I hope it will be useful.
I had to try, she kept bugging me all the time.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

I found this article interesting, and if I am reading it correctly informative.

Isotopic signature - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The different isotope ratios for the two kinds of plants propagate through the food chain, thus it is possible to determine if the principal diet of a human or an animal consists primarily of C3 plants (rice, wheat, soybeans, potatoes) or C4 plants (corn, or corn-fed beef) by isotope analysis of their flesh and bone collagen. Similarly, marine fish contain more 13C than freshwater fish, with values approximating the C4 and C3 plants respectively.

Until I read this I was so focused in on the corn, I must admit I did not think to add other diet factors. Potatoes are a very good example. While it is true that people from my area of WV, still have diets high in corn.....they are also going to show high in potatoes.....they are also considered a staple here and are fixed daily in one form or another. I think we need to know more of the values shown on the isotope test. I am still very curious about the water elements, but I would like to know what the other values on her tests were. It is easy to get tied up on one value......and not really stop to think of the other values that might be there......if the only value of hers that was high is the corn, I can better understand why they feel it limited her to a certain region.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Please, does anybody out there know the answer about the minerals in water, rather or not that is something that can be localized, or is it to affected by rain to be accurate? I was reading a report the other night that stated rain can transfer minerals from one area to another.....which makes sense.....but can it transfer them to a large enough quantity that it would affect the mineral levels bringing them to a inaccurate degree?

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Nameless has submitted a new list of questions and we are all anxiously waiting on the new information. I know sometimes this seems like an almost impossible task. Many thought baby hope was impossible also.......but as we all now see......all it took was one person being in the right place at the right time. The same is true with our little Cali......

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

We are still waiting on the answers from the last questions submitted. Once we get them then we will be able to use those facts to hopefully bring us closer to knowing her name.