NY - Captured, escaped convicted killers, David Sweat & Richard Matt, Dannemora #8

[Peliman]

but weren't there any armchair psychiatrists or Ph.D.'s analyzing
Millie's involvement with the 2 convicts?

Has that happened yet? I can only assume so.

My layman's analysis is she's not mentally ill but she's certainly nutso.

 

[human]

These are thought processes which are cionsidered criminal thnking and which are ones that are worked on so that criminals can reenter society.

Easy and interesting. Most of us have aspects of the thinking, but criminals take it to the extreme. I still think the mother has this thought process.

https://criminalthinking.wordpress.com

 

[Hope4More]

Maybe this has nothing to do with anything. has it been mentioned anywhere that the note they left appears to be attached by a magnet? Did they really go to the trouble of obtaining a magnet to attach it? Unless it was just a slap in the face, that note didn't need to be attached. It would have been found during the investigation even if it was tossed upside down somewhere. It actually looks like that hat could have once been an arrow that could have possibly been mapping the route. I thought it was mentioned that there were other notes found. I wonder if there were a series of post it's with arrows attached inside/outside the pipe mapping the way..... Conveniently attached by magnets that came from who knows where.

I'm hung up on their path out. I wonder if there may not have been a path in from the man hole.

I've wondered about those other post-its too. I'd thought they were literally a series of mocking insults to be found after the escape. But post-its as a bread crumb trail out for themselves makes sense as well.

 

[MinnesotaMary]

BBM They got pot from the cabin they stayed? would that be the cabin that the correction officers used/owned?

EXCELLENT --- LOL I never thought of that !! Too Too Too funny !!! lol !!! :happydance:

 

[Hope4More]

If anyone remembers, what is the distance between Clinton prison and Tillie's house? Trying to figure out how much time it would have taken to drive there after the escape.

 

[MinnesotaMary]

My layman's analysis is she's not mentally ill but she's certainly nutso.

ROF !!!!!!!!!!!!!:happydance:

 

[epiphany]

Dave Greber ‏@DaveGreber4 13h13 hours ago

NEW: Reports of an #FBI drug probe inside #ClintonCorrectional are not true, according to sources close to the invest of escape & #NYprisons

https://twitter.com/DaveGreber4


<snip>

Controlled substances being slipped into Clinton Correctional Facility from civilian family members to inmates is an ongoing issue at the maximum-security prison, but hasn't been found to involve corrections officers, the local district attorney said.

Clinton County District Attorney Andrew Wylie said Tuesday he didn't know of any FBI probe or officers being part of a heroin distribution scheme.

"I am not aware that the FBI is conducting that investigation," Wylie told Gannett's Albany Bureau.

He added, "We're certainly aware of contraband in the form of controlled substances is passed through the facility. It's our understanding through the investigations conducted that it's civilian family members that bring it in, pass it to an inmate and then the contraband is dispersed through the facility."

http://www.lohud.com/story/news/crime/2015/06/30/clinton-prison-probe-superintendent/29512367/

 

[screecher]

Tillie and whoever else helped them escape committed criminal acts, and very much share responsibility for the escape. Without that assistance both inmates would be alive and where a court of law determined they should be.

BBM

Where did you read in my post I said the others didn't share responsibility?

I'll be clearer here. Its called personal responsibility and accountability. No one coerced Matt and Sweat to try to escape. They were wanting out. Sweat was planning it for 6 months according to him. IMO, he was planning it for years.


Generally speaking, very few, with the criminal mind set, are going to say...'yeah, I like torturing, killing, then dismembering my victims. I get a high from it'. Or, 'I rape and molest babies and children because its easy and it makes me feel powerful'. Or, 'no one made me do it, I did it because i wanted to'. The ones who do say it, are taking personal responsibility and being accountable for their criminal actions. That criminal is not blaming or placing responsibility on his victim, or anyone else, a bad upbringing, nor attempting to excuse his crime. Imo, these criminals probably had no one enabling them, either.

OTOH, most will say things like 'he got what he deserved, he owed me money and wouldn't pay up'. 'He/she deserved to be beaten and pummeled within an inch of his/her life, because I caught him/her cheating on me'. 'I stabbed him 42 times because he was mean to my mother', 'not my fault i had to rob and shoot to death the owner of the convenience store, my baby needed milk and diapers and I had no money'. Particularly, with sex offenders, the blame is often placed on the victims. Always justifying and placing responsibility of their crimes on others.


Specifically, regarding David Sweat's mother's interview, instead of saying...my David has made bad decisions since he has been a child and those decisions have not only affected him, but also those around him and I couldn't find a way to help him stay out of trouble. What she is saying, in that interview, is without the 'help' of others, David and the 'other guy' couldn't, wouldn't attempt and succeed in escaping. She is excusing his bad decisions, his bad choices and placing blame on 'others'. She is not holding her son solely accountable for his bad decision. It is what enablers do. It is part of the enabling process.

Imo, David Sweat and Richard Matt had previously attempted to escape using those pipes. Remember, the cat walks were no longer being toured by the COs, as there was not enough 'funding'. I have no doubt the inmates were aware of this. Realizing they needed tools to cut into and out of the pipes, they scoped out civilians, decided the tailor shop supervisor was the easiest mark and set about 'grooming' her. Btw, she has taken personal responsibility and is being held accountable for her bad choices and decisions.

 

[epiphany]

Dave Greber &#8207;@DaveGreber4 54m54 minutes ago

Wylie: "It's obviously an escape that no one ever imagined could've occurred." Much more on @news4buffalo at noon. #PrisonBreakNY


Dave Greber &#8207;@DaveGreber4 56m56 minutes ago

Wylie: Additional charges against #JoyceMitchell are unlikely at this point. #PrisonBreakNY

https://twitter.com/DaveGreber4

 

[MinnesotaMary]

Well in this instance she is absolutely correct. The escape of these two murderers wouldn't have happen if it hadn't been for Tillie and Palmer who both have been arrested for their part in it. That isn't placing blame. Those are the facts.

I had to go run an errand that took about 1 hr. in the car --- it clicked to me that NEITHER Slithery-Serpent-10-Commandment-Breaker-Tillie NOR Former-Art-Gallery-Owner-Palmer have told the authorities the truth - NEITHER of those two. Both of them crooked to the core and remember, neither's had any sort of 'Come to Jesus' moment: All that happened is each of them happened to get caught - - Tillie and Palmer are the exact same people in their respective hearts and cores, with the only difference being that each got caught. It is so, so very WRONG IMO that Palmer was let loose - WRONG WRONG WRONG !!!

 

[cady]

RIGHT ON !!! It's 'news' to me that Palmer's trying to be TRANSFERRED !!! Holy Moly: Palmer is so way beyond Utter Dead Weight to any employer - Nuttin' but trouble', and you put it so well !!! TY !:hand:

Lyle's last name is Mitchell..........JMO

 

[epiphany]

Dave Greber retweeted
Brittni Smallwood &#8207;@bsmallwood4 20m20 minutes ago

Coming up on News 4@noon -- @DaveGreber4 sat down w/the Clinton County DA and has new details about the prison break investigation.

https://twitter.com/DaveGreber4


Link below:

http://wivb.com/live-streaming/

 

[cady]

Palmer will go to another prison, as an inmate. JMO

 

[MinnesotaMary]

Lyle's last name is Mitchell..........JMO

Sorry - I deleted my post. Plus, I was wrong: "DRAMA QUEEN" is Dead On (for Mr. Tillie/Lyle) - When he 'has' to be apart from Tillie, I picture him spending his time at work reading romance novels like this:

 

[screecher]

IMO it can't all be lies because they've said repeatedly that they'll corroborate his statements before putting anyone on leave yet 12 people were put on leave today which included making the person in charge of the prison and overseeing SIX total prisons take early retirement. This indicates to me that he's telling verifiable stuff. You don't do things like that based on nothing, and I don't think an independent investigation exposed ALL those people in a few days or whatever without him giving something to go on that panned out.

JMO

ETA plus his mother said straight out that he used to tell on himself all the time as a kid. I believe her. JMO

BBM

DOC employees are able to retire after 25 years. The superintendent worked for DOCs for 37 years.

 

[Greater Than]

And yet, if Sweat had been able to cross the border and got away safely, Mama Sweat would have LOVED Tilly.
:loveyou:

What has she ever said or done to make you think that?? She has never defended his crimes nor supported his escape. When they first broke out, she was so mad at him she said she was cutting all ties with him:

"As she spoke Tuesday, Pamela Sweat seemed to hover between anger toward her son and a deep unease over what might happen to him now.

[...]

"I don't want nothing to do with him," Pamela Sweat said. "He has tormented me since he was 9 years old, and now he's 34 and I feel like he's still doing it.""

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/06/09/manhunt-convicts-mother-speaks/28771385/

Then after he was captured, she was relieved and said:

""I hope he will be OK and he just stays there where he belongs," she said. "I have always told my kids you do the crime you do the time." She said David had often given her trouble while he was growing up."

http://www.pressconnects.com/story/...itter\']"]']&utm_source=['["[\'dlvr.it\']"]']

And this video interview she gave the day he was captured shows her raw emotions and how she feels about him, his crimes, and his escape:

http://www.twcnews.com/nys/central-ny/news/2015/06/28/pamela-sweat-interview.html

 

[bestill]

Very thankful that no one was hurt, other than the escapees, but I would like to know what stopped them from harming others? As much harm as these guys had done in the past I'm just curious as to what prevented them from doing more.

 

[Hope4More]

BBM

Where did you read in my post I said the others didn't share responsibility?

I'll be clearer here. Its called personal responsibility and accountability. No one coerced Matt and Sweat to try to escape. They were wanting out. Sweat was planning it for 6 months according to him. IMO, he was planning it for years.


Generally speaking, very few, with the criminal mind set, are going to say...'yeah, I like torturing, killing, then dismembering my victims. I get a high from it'. Or, 'I rape and molest babies and children because its easy and it makes me feel powerful'. Or, 'no one made me do it, I did it because i wanted to'. The ones who do say it, are taking personal responsibility and being accountable for their criminal actions. That criminal is not blaming or placing responsibility on his victim, or anyone else, a bad upbringing, nor attempting to excuse his crime. Imo, these criminals probably had no one enabling them, either.

OTOH, most will say things like 'he got what he deserved, he owed me money and wouldn't pay up'. 'He/she deserved to be beaten and pummeled within an inch of his/her life, because I caught him/her cheating on me'. 'I stabbed him 42 times because he was mean to my mother', 'not my fault i had to rob and shoot to death the owner of the convenience store, my baby needed milk and diapers and I had no money'. Particularly, with sex offenders, the blame is often placed on the victims. Always justifying and placing responsibility of their crimes on others.


Specifically, regarding David Sweat's mother's interview, instead of saying...my David has made bad decisions since he has been a child and those decisions have not only affected him, but also those around him and I couldn't find a way to help him stay out of trouble. What she is saying, in that interview, is without the 'help' of others, David and the 'other guy' couldn't, wouldn't attempt and succeed in escaping. She is excusing his bad decisions, his bad choices and placing blame on 'others'. She is not holding her son solely accountable for his bad decision. It is what enablers do. It is part of the enabling process.

Imo, David Sweat and Richard Matt had previously attempted to escape using those pipes. Remember, the cat walks were no longer being toured by the COs, as there was not enough 'funding'. I have no doubt the inmates were aware of this. Realizing they needed tools to cut into and out of the pipes, they scoped out civilians, decided the tailor shop supervisor was the easiest mark and set about 'grooming' her. Btw, she has taken personal responsibility and is being held accountable for her bad choices and decisions.

I don't think the interview of Sweat's mother reflected her "criminal mindset" or revealed her as an "enabler." There isn't any Emily Post etiquette guide for parents of convicted murderers, much less for parents of convicted murderers who escape from prison and become national news for weeks.

Even if such a guide existed I doubt Sweat's mother would know of it, and even if she read it I doubt she'd remember what it instructed her to say, and even if she remembered the instructions I doubt her words her would come out right. The mother who brought Sweat into the world couldn't even remember what a doctor told her about her son's brain "not being right," for goodness sake.

Of course Matt and Sweat are responsible for deciding to try to escape, for using (willing) folks to get out, and for every last thing they did while loose, including terrorizing communities in NY and putting the lives of over 1,000 LEO at risk.

The point I was trying to make was that in a secure prison with employees doing their jobs, it wouldn't have mattered whether or not Matt or Sweat WANTED to escape, 'cause they'd never have made it out. As far as I'm concerned, if a woman is going to be singled out as having a definite criminal mindset, that would be Tillie, who discussed murdering her husband with 2 convicted murderers, not Sweat's mother. JMO

 

[Greater Than]

I do foresee there being a big settlement coming for Matt's family. Even though he brought all of this on himself, they will claim the prison and state of NY dropped the ball on their end. It's really crazy when you think about it. Can't you see the new prisoner disclaimer>>>"Should you elect to escape the prison will not be responsible for what harms you" "Should you elect to con the guards, CO's and/or employees the prison is not responsible for what happens to you", "Should you escape, you are on your own and you could be shot and lose your life"....

I agree. Logically it doesn't seem right, but I guess legally since he was in their custody and under their supervision, I suppose they're liable. Them dropping the ball is a given, especially in light of the suspension of the top officials and nine security officers yesterday.

 

[Greater Than]

I've wondered about those other post-its too. I'd thought they were literally a series of mocking insults to be found after the escape. But post-its as a bread crumb trail out for themselves makes sense as well.

I remember the other notes found on their cell walls were discussed during a press conference. They wouldn't reveal what the notes were of or said, but I think I remember them saying they considered them clues as to where they may be headed.

Here's an article regarding the notes:

"The convicted murderers who remain at large kept notes on their cell walls and inside the pipes that they used as their escape route ahead of their break from an upstate New York prison 11 days ago, an official involved in the investigation told ABC News.

The notes may have helped Richard Matt and David Sweat prepare for their escape as they spent months mapping out their escape through steam tunnels, the source said.

The notes had in turn served as a trail of clues for investigators, the source said, though authorities now face the prospect of a dearth of new evidence."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/ny-prison-escape-inmates-notes-escape-plan-cell/story?id=31809776