NY - Christian Nunez, 8 wks, suffocates in rat-infested Bronx apt, 29 Jan 2007

[southcitymom]

I really hate to see this woman being judged so harshly by some people. After reading the article, all I know about her living conditions is that she is a renter and has a rat infestation problem. Nowhere in the article does it say that she is lower income, working a menial job, or unable to provide a great life for this child. A lot of assumptions have been made. She could be living in a nice NY apartment - we don't know. As many posters have already stated, rats are equal opportunity boarders.

From the little information given in this article, it is as easy to assume that with the death of this child, the world has lost a future Nobel Peace Prize winner as it is to assume that this child is a future menial laborer.

If we judged everyone by the standards mentioned by some posters, approximately 12-14% of the US population should go childless. Much of the rest of the world would be childless, and therefore, uninhabited.

"While in any given year 12 to 14 percent of the population is poor, over a ten-year period 40 percent experience poverty in at least one year because most poor people cycle in and out of poverty; they don't stay poor for long periods, Poverty is something that happens to the working class, not some marginal "other" on the fringes of society." - Micheal Zweig, What's Class Got to do With It, American Society in the Twenty-first Century, 2004



​

Right now, all any of us can definitively say about this tragedy is that this mother has lost a child and deserves the sympathy normally afforded to a grieving mother.


______________________________
JMHO

I like the way you post! Stick around!

 

[SadieMae]

Who said they wanted to send their child to college?

There will always be positions for menial jobs that need filling.

You know, all those fast food chains, all those Walmart stores.....don't need a college degree to work in places like that.

It takes all sorts to make up a society.

Depending on the economy of some areas some working at Walmart DO have college degrees....

 

[julianne]

...with extra credit to Barb for her ability to practice real diplomacy in her well stated rejoinder to those ill reasoned responses earlier in this thread.

welcome to WS, Barb...it seems to me that you have a sense of the stated mission of WS in your heart, something that often is overlooked in these various forii these days.

So very true--this thread being a perfect example of that. But I have to ask....is forii really plural for forums? Or am I off base and it means something totally different??

 

[Gina_M]

So very true--this thread being a perfect example of that. But I have to ask....is forii really plural for forums? Or am I off base and it means something totally different??

I think it would be forum --> fora
Just like datum --> data

 

[GonzoReiter]

So very true--this thread being a perfect example of that. But I have to ask....is forii really plural for forums? Or am I off base and it means something totally different??

I've no real clue, Julianne...my use of forii is merely an excercise of my Bartleby rights to choose.

Your question has been a topic of discussion on various forum venues beginning with Usenet and dating back to the days of Doug Ingersoll's early coding.

Some argue for the latin "fora" [size=-1]but that would be too confusing, since the Fora is a famous Aristasian insignia...hence many adopted "forae" as the plural. But, I digress...where was I headed with this anyway? Oh well, back to my reading of the various forii...

:doh:
[/size]

 

[mistivon]

lol, this kind of stuff drives me nuts, so i looked it up on webster online


Inflected Form(s): plural forums also fo·ra

 

[Boyzmomee]

I really hate to see this woman being judged so harshly by some people. After reading the article, all I know about her living conditions is that she is a renter and has a rat infestation problem. Nowhere in the article does it say that she is lower income, working a menial job, or unable to provide a great life for this child. A lot of assumptions have been made. She could be living in a nice NY apartment - we don't know. As many posters have already stated, rats are equal opportunity boarders.

From the little information given in this article, it is as easy to assume that with the death of this child, the world has lost a future Nobel Peace Prize winner as it is to assume that this child is a future menial laborer.

If we judged everyone by the standards mentioned by some posters, approximately 12-14% of the US population should go childless. Much of the rest of the world would be childless, and therefore, uninhabited.

"While in any given year 12 to 14 percent of the population is poor, over a ten-year period 40 percent experience poverty in at least one year because most poor people cycle in and out of poverty; they don't stay poor for long periods, Poverty is something that happens to the working class, not some marginal "other" on the fringes of society." - Micheal Zweig, What's Class Got to do With It, American Society in the Twenty-first Century, 2004

​

Right now, all any of us can definitively say about this tragedy is that this mother has lost a child and deserves the sympathy normally afforded to a grieving mother.

______________________________
JMHO

1. It is very sad. The mother was living in such a rat invested home, she had to sleep with her infant to keep the rats off of him. Not a good home to bring a child into....not such a good idea to bring a child into the world during a "cycle of poverty."

2. She was providing a rat infested home for her child. She did not provide "a great life for her child." She accidentally killed him trying to keep rats off of him. He has no "life." He is deceased.

3. Reading comprehension. The discussion moved on from there to occupation and life choices. No one was speaking about her occupation etc. Sometimes discussions go down different roads from the original topic. You have to be able to follow along.

 

[txsvicki]

Easy. If you can't afford to live in a place without rats, how are you going to afford to send your child to college?

Pell Grants, some states pay first years tuition for kids on welfare, and I heard the other day that 2 schools in Texas will give free tuition to kids whose parents make less than $25,000 per year.

 

[Boyzmomee]

As long as my kids live a blissfully happy life, I don't care if a high school diploma or college degree is hanging on the wall.

It is hard to be "blissfully happy" when you can't afford medical insurance, cannot afford a decent place to live, and have a hard time feeding and clothing your family.



In todays world, the reality is, a college degree or some type of skilled trade training is necessary to provide a decent life for yourself and your family.

There will always be an exception, however, that's the way it is.

I would have no problem with either of my sons becoming a plumber, electrician, or carpenter/cabinet maker.

Skilled trades pay well and many folks enjoy working outside, with their hands.

 

[Boyzmomee]

Pell Grants, some states pay first years tuition for kids on welfare, and I heard the other day that 2 schools in Texas will give free tuition to kids whose parents make less than $25,000 per year.

Well, that's Texas. It is still very hard to afford to go to college, pay tuition AND living expenses. College tuition is going up every day. If it was so easy to go to college free, don't you think we would have heard about it by now?

 

[Boyzmomee]

My point was, accidents can happen anywhere, it's not something that is exclusive to people who are poor.

If children were suffocated on a frequent basis by mother's who were protecting them from rats, why would it be reportable? We would hear about it all the time.

 

[narlacat]

<<Well, that's Texas. It is still very hard to afford to go to college, pay tuition AND living expenses. College tuition is going up every day. If it was so easy to go to college free, don't you think we would have heard about it by now?>>


Geez, talk about a broken record.

Again, where in the article does it state the person in question wanted her kids to go to college?

 

[narlacat]

It is hard to be "blissfully happy" when you can't afford medical insurance, cannot afford a decent place to live, and have a hard time feeding and clothing your family.



In todays world, the reality is, a college degree or some type of skilled trade training is necessary to provide a decent life for yourself and your family.

There will always be an exception, however, that's the way it is.

I would have no problem with either of my sons becoming a plumber, electrician, or carpenter/cabinet maker.

Skilled trades pay well and many folks enjoy working outside, with their hands.

Who are you to say what makes another person blissfully happy?
Everyone's different remember.

You have totally missed Juliannes point.

 

[Boyzmomee]

Oh, and by the way-some people like 'menial' jobs. I have a real estate sales license and my husband is an senior instructor for BAE Systems. I work at Winn-Dixie, as a cashier. Why? Because I like people, and I like working. And I have kids,but with a 'menial' job like cashiering the world isn't going to end if they are sick and I need a few days off.

Yours is the second income. Your husband is a senior instructor for BAE systems. Your life would be diffferent if you were only living on a cashier's income.

I'm in the same boat. My husband makes a very, very good living. A few years ago I worked part time as a teacher's aide in a classroom for severely handicapped students. I loved it. It gave be the break that I wanted. I worked directly with the students, changed them, and dealt with difficult behaviors. It was in a high school class for autistic kids.

 

[JBean]

1. It is very sad. The mother was living in such a rat invested home, she had to sleep with her infant to keep the rats off of him. Not a good home to bring a child into....not such a good idea to bring a child into the world during a "cycle of poverty."

2. She was providing a rat infested home for her child. She did not provide "a great life for her child." She accidentally killed him trying to keep rats off of him. He has no "life." He is deceased.

3. Reading comprehension. The discussion moved on from there to occupation and life choices. No one was speaking about her occupation etc. Sometimes discussions go down different roads from the original topic. You have to be able to follow along.

The point that you might be missing is that rats don't necessarily mean a cycle of poverty and lack of provision or inability to go to college. It may or may not be true,but to assume that since she was protecting her child from rats that she was any less of a mother than you or I is absurd.
I am not living in poverty. My kids have either graduated or or attending college or aren't college age yet. One son is a senior at the same college your son plans to attend. One graduated from the University of San Diego. Some go to the local JC.
My lovely home was infested with rats.Not because I am a bad parent, not because I am any less of a person than you. Not because I didn't plan well or make good choices or provide for my children. They were there because they breed like rabbits and they are a force to be reckoned with. It isn't any reflection on anyone's parenting skills.
if I had had an infant he would have been sleeping with me too.
I didn't need to move out of my home, I had to live there to get rid of the little devils. I protected my family while we were cohabitating with rats too. I've made a lot of good choices in my life just like you. I guess the rats just liked my choices too.

 

[Boyzmomee]

obviously if there was a bad rat problem, this woman should have found a way to get her & her child the hell out of there. but like i said in big cities, rats are very common. we don't know what this woman's story was or how hard she was trying to get out of this situation (if she was). obviously she was making an effort to protect her child. we have to remember that kids often get suffocated while sleeping with a parent, no matter what the scenario.. it can happen just as easily in an upper-class home without rats.

geez, if people who lived around around rats, roaches, vermin, or in less-than ideal circumstances.. never had kids, then that would probably be about 80% of humanity! however i DO understand that women should be responsible and not bring a kid into a bad situation, if they can avoid it... but again.. that means the overwhelming majority of humanity should not be breeding, since there are billions living in poverty, war zones, and in situations most americans would think are unsafe or unsanitary.
maybe only nice, comfortable, upper-class people with a university degree & 2 SUV's, living in the nice, sterile, safe, clean, culturally-devoid suburbs; both making at least $75K a year should be allowed to have children. and everyone else should be sterilized..............??

Lol... this woman does not live in a third world country. If she was in the Sudan I'm sure this story would have not been reported in the paper. Apples and oranges.

In the US, pregnancy can be avoided.

 

[mistivon]

i disagree.

first of all, who is to say that this woman wasn't crazily in love with some well-to-do guy who died when she became pregnant, forcing her to take whatever she could
who's to say that she didn't have money and a good home when she got pregnant? things happen. people die, people get laid off, people get kicked out of their parents home with nowhere to go.
how can you say she was in a "cycle of poverty" when she chose to have this baby?
and btw, i guess you'd rather she had murdered her unborn child? or just gotten sterilized when she moved?
who is to say that this woman was lazy, or didn't work? she might have worked TWO jobs to save up enough money to move. it is expensive...deposits, transferring utilities, paying movers...what if she was trying her best and just didn't quite have the money yet?
who is to say she couldn't feed and clothe her baby?
and you CAN be blissfully happy and not have a lot of money. material things are not what makes a child happy, LOVE is. ok, it might have been a bad rat problem, but that baby may have been snuggled constantly, fed and bathed and always had clean clothes and a clean place to play. how can you say she did not provide a good life? at least that baby was loved enough to be protected.
to college....i supported myself through college. i worked and got grants. i took a full course load, and graduated a two year program in less than 18 months. it's hard, but it can be done without a college fund.
speaking of degrees, i'm in a menial job, too. i have a nursing degree, and used to be a flight nurse. currently??? i'm working from home doing insurance sales. why? to be with my kids. and you know what? i'm in the "middle income" tax bracket...not lower income, not poverty level...and what i'm doing? convicted felons can do. you DON'T have to have a college degree to make good money. look at salespeople, look at some telemarketers, look at department store and restaurant managers, geez

ugh
sorry, i usually just post links and don't get into discussions, but some opinions on here really stink

 

[Boyzmomee]

The point that you might be missing is that rats don't necessarily mean a cycle of poverty and lack of provision or inability to go to college. It may or may not be true,but to assume that since she was protecting her child from rats that she was any less of a mother than you or I is absurd.
I am not living in poverty. My kids have either graduated or or attending college or aren't college age yet. One son is a senior at the same college your son plans to attend. One graduated from the University of San Diego. Some go to the local JC.
My lovely home was infested with rats.Not because I am a bad parent, not because I am any less of a person than you. Not because I didn't plan well or make good choices or provide for my children. They were there because they breed like rabbits and they are a force to be reckoned with. It isn't any reflection on anyone's parenting skills.
if I had had an infant he would have been sleeping with me too.
I didn't need to move out of my home, I had to live there to get rid of the little devils. I protected my family while we were cohabitating with rats too. I've made a lot of good choices in my life just like you. I guess the rats just liked my choices too.

Well, if you choose to live in a rat infested home, that's your choice.

I would get the h*ll out until the buggers were gone and my children weren't in danger. Rats carry diseases like rabies. If that woman's child was bitten by a rat, Child Protective Services would have been called. Why do you suppose that is?

Why do you think she chose to stay in that rat infested apartment and submit her child to that?

I don't submit my children to being harmed by rats as they sleep in bed.

But, hey, that's my choice.

 

[narlacat]

i disagree.

first of all, who is to say that this woman wasn't crazily in love with some well-to-do guy who died when she became pregnant, forcing her to take whatever she could
who's to say that she didn't have money and a good home when she got pregnant? things happen. people die, people get laid off, people get kicked out of their parents home with nowhere to go.
how can you say she was in a "cycle of poverty" when she chose to have this baby?
and btw, i guess you'd rather she had murdered her unborn child? or just gotten sterilized when she moved?
who is to say that this woman was lazy, or didn't work? she might have worked TWO jobs to save up enough money to move. it is expensive...deposits, transferring utilities, paying movers...what if she was trying her best and just didn't quite have the money yet?
who is to say she couldn't feed and clothe her baby?
and you CAN be blissfully happy and not have a lot of money. material things are not what makes a child happy, LOVE is. ok, it might have been a bad rat problem, but that baby may have been snuggled constantly, fed and bathed and always had clean clothes and a clean place to play. how can you say she did not provide a good life? at least that baby was loved enough to be protected.
to college....i supported myself through college. i worked and got grants. i took a full course load, and graduated a two year program in less than 18 months. it's hard, but it can be done without a college fund.
speaking of degrees, i'm in a menial job, too. i have a nursing degree, and used to be a flight nurse. currently??? i'm working from home doing insurance sales. why? to be with my kids. and you know what? i'm in the "middle income" tax bracket...not lower income, not poverty level...and what i'm doing? convicted felons can do. you DON'T have to have a college degree to make good money. look at salespeople, look at some telemarketers, look at department store and restaurant managers, geez

ugh
sorry, i usually just post links and don't get into discussions, but some opinions on here really stink

They certainly do.
Well said Misti.

 

[JBean]

Well, if you choose to live in a rat infested home, that's your choice.

I would get the h*ll out until the buggers were gone and my children weren't in danger. Rats carry diseases like rabies. If that woman's child was bitten by a rat, Child Protective Services would have been called. Why do you suppose that is?

Why do you think she chose to stay in that rat infested apartment and submit her child to that?

I don't submit my children to being harmed by rats as they sleep in bed.

But, hey, that's my choice.

LOL! Who's going to get rid of the rats if you leave?