GUILTY NY - DM, 6, & FM, 12, Huevelton, 13 August 2014 - #2

[perfectingpink]

Ambien is a sleeping pill for insomnia. Unless things have changed, it wasn't available in injectible form. People have been known to do strange things while taking it, and not remembering.

From what I understand, Ambien is water-soluble though.

 

[Miss_Diana]

A Master is technically someone who has been trained on how to be a "master of dominance" which usually would mean he would have started out as a submissive to another person who was trained in the lifestyle and then worked his way up to becoming a master of his skills. A Master would basically be a dom that has more experience in the lifestyle and he himself has been trained prior to just claiming his dominance over another. Everyone should still have choices. In this situation, it's more general knowledge to say "Master/slave" than "dominant/submissive" , though they are somewhat the same in the dynamics of it. Also, with the whole 50 Shades of Crap books and movie, it's more of a new household word to be MASTER, which I am betting is why the whole situation is even being brought to light. Good timing on that one.

The choice of being submissive to a sadist is that you like to be abused, you would be a masochist. I supposed anyone could be forced to do anything, depending on the circumstances, but MOST people would be able to put the brakes on and say no and leave, unless it was your desire to complete the act, especially someone who studied rape and psychology. Did that answer your questions?

BBM: I would disagree that a Dom/Domme or Master/Mistress started out as a sub/slave.

Many in the lifestyle, as naturally Dominant, it's in their personality and nature. They do not have to be submissive and be trained. It just comes natural to them.

Pretty much, it's what the couple decide ... and the Dom could order her to "call" him Master in the privacy of their home.

 

[lern2fli]

A person (sub or slave) ALWAYS has the choice to leave, to say NO, that's reality.

She COULD have said NO ....

A Dom is a male Dominant (a man who is dominant, either just in the bedroom or 24/7).

Some Doms call themselves a Master, some do not use that title. Only they know exactly what their dynamics were ... as it's different for every couple.

There are also "Tops" who usually just 'top' in a relationship, or encounter, and that's where it ends, they aren't involved in a 24/7 arrangement.

There is nothing legal he could have done, to force her to obey him. NOTHING! The choices she made, were her own.

Some subs/slaves fall deeply in love with their Doms/Masters, as in vanilla life, and can't leave, as their heart is in it too deeply. All though I suspect she may have had her own fantasies that she wanted to fulfill also. That's JMO of course.

And yes, a Dom/sub relationship can go deeper with time, into a Master/slave arrangement.

I agree with your opinion Miss_Diana as it sounds as though you and I are familiar with the lifestyle and we both know that there is definite decision making that goes into every aspect of it. She definitely made the CHOICE to do this, whether it was because of the love she had for him or not, this was her deciding to follow through with her submissiveness to him. We also don't know what lead up to this, they very well could have decided on these plans as a couple and not just him making the rules. Regardless, I think that after a few years their kinks got a little more sick and twisted and they both decided to take it to this disgusting level.

 

[lern2fli]

BBM: I would disagree that a Dom/Domme or Master/Mistress started out as a sub/slave.

Many in the lifestyle, as naturally Dominant, it's in their personality and nature. They do not have to be submissive and be trained. It just comes natural to them.

I have not one single submissive bone in my body, and I'm naturally Dominant. That's very true for many Doms/Dommes - Masters/Mistress in the lifestyle, and heck, even outside of the lifestyle.

Pretty much, it's what the couple decide ... and the Dom could order her to "call" him Master in the privacy of their home.

I was just saying technically speaking, the definition of Master/Mistress is someone who has learned every aspect and has mastered the trade from the ground up (any trade really).

I technically call myself a Miss, but wouldn't say Mistress because I don't believe I have earned that title, but I do understand your natural tendencies and would never put that down. To each his own in terms of names, I am relatively new to the lifestyle in comparison to some that call themselves Mistress and I feel like in time I will change that, but that's just my personal preference.

You are correct it does depend on what the couple decide, but then again.. that's also choice!! Which we know is made coherently prior to any agreements!!!

 

[Miss_Diana]

Just as aside, my browser refuses to switch off "safe mode" to locate Sado_anyone, let alone Steve. I think my browser is winking to fellow mothers and saying "she doesn't need to see this, seriously".

I know of the Noelle Paquette case only because she's local but I'm wondering, since I've seen references to it here, were the perps who took her away also involved in the same stuff, or was it different? I didn't follow it here so I don't know.

The little I've read about Noelle, it seems similar, sadism, rape, etc.

 

[Miss_Diana]

I was just saying technically speaking, the definition of Master/Mistress is someone who has learned every aspect and has mastered the trade from the ground up (any trade really).

I technically call myself a Miss, but wouldn't say Mistress because I don't believe I have earned that title, but I do understand your natural tendencies and would never put that down. To each his own in terms of names, I am relatively new to the lifestyle in comparison to some that call themselves Mistress and I feel like in time I will change that, but that's just my personal preference.

You are correct it does depend on what the couple decide, but then again.. that's also choice!! Which we know is made coherently prior to any agreements!!!

Nice to meet you!

Yes, I've been in the lifestyle for many years ... I absolutely agree, she made her own decision, and I do not think she can use the lifestyle as an excuse.

 

[lern2fli]

Nice to meet you!

Yes, I've been in the lifestyle for many years ... I absolutely agree, she made her own decision, and I do not think she can use the lifestyle as an excuse.

Nice to meet you too!

It will certainly be interesting to see how this plays out at her hearing tomorrow. I must admit, I was a little dumbfounded when they first said she was seeking a restraining order from him. What's the purpose of that? You're both going to be in jail for a long time!!!

I did read that there apparently was a recording of them during the kidnapping, but I would imagine the FBI will take all the evidence into account from day one up until arrest. I would hate to see this turn into a lynch mob against the lifestyle, but so far it really seems as though most people are not taking her excuses seriously.

 

[necco]

From what I understand from friends "in the lifestyle" a dom/master doesn't really have any power. The sub/slave has all the power. It is the sub/slave who GIVES power to the dom/master and therefore can take it away at any time. The master/dom can tell their sub to do anything. The sub can always flip them off and walk away.

Am I wrong about this?

 

[T-Rex]

I have been kicking myself for not taking screen shots of her writings

Maybe try the Wayback Machine? https://archive.org/web/

 

[PLT]

And "most" subs and slaves, list their 'hard limits' as:

No children - Nothing Illegal - etc.

So her 'sub or slave' status does NOT give her an excuse for her part in this! That's when she passed the limit of the lifestyle and plain common sense!

Exactly. She chose this lifestyle and solicited / encouraged it via her online account. Her lawyer seems to be saying that she should be given leniency....and where does that end ? Do submissives get lighter sentences for crimes?

 

[human]

I am totally confused.

No one has power over yourself except you .

You decide what you will or will not do.

Really? Someone doesn't know that kidnapping children is wrong?

And if someone does not think that is wrong, lock em up now!

 

[blue22]

I am totally confused.

No one has power over yourself except you .

You decide what you will or will not do.

Really? Someone doesn't know that kidnapping children is wrong?

And if someone does not think that is wrong, lock em up now!

YEP!

I think someone only doesn't "know" when they get caught and they think they are super smart.

I can't with these sicko creeps. They are the lowest of the low.

 

[Miss_Diana]

From what I understand from friends "in the lifestyle" a dom/master doesn't really have any power. The sub/slave has all the power. It is the sub/slave who GIVES power to the dom/master and therefore can take it away at any time. The master/dom can tell their sub to do anything. The sub can always flip them off and walk away.

Am I wrong about this?

Of course that's true ... if the submissive person isn't willing to submit, the Dom or Master, has nothing.

But of course, then there's love .... and when that enters, it does take on a whole different meaning, as does vanilla life/relationships. It's called "internal enslavement", which is to say, the sub/slave would never leave, because they would never want to, due to love.

And yes, anyone can walk out the door at any time ... it's just a matter of how attached/involved you are with your Dom/Master.

 

[Miss_Diana]

Exactly. She chose this lifestyle and solicited / encouraged it via her online account. Her lawyer seems to be saying that she should be given leniency....and where does that end ? Do submissives get lighter sentences for crimes?

She should not be given leniency, unless she can prove that she was drugged and forced to do what she did, which is most likely NOT what happened.

But then again, they/she may have done this before, so yeah .... there's no excuse.

And NO, the lifestyle is NO excuse for breaking the law and harming children!

 

[Miss_Diana]

I am totally confused.

No one has power over yourself except you .

You decide what you will or will not do.

Really? Someone doesn't know that kidnapping children is wrong?

And if someone does not think that is wrong, lock em up now!

You are absolutely correct. The only time anyone has power over you, is if you're drugged and/or forced, while drugged. Other than that, YOU decide if you'll go along with the other person.

Of course she knew it was wrong ... she decided to break the law, and harm the girls.

I/we don't know what went on behind closed doors before this happened, so I/we don't know if she has been abused or forced/drugged in any way, but I'm pretty sure that's not the case.

 

[Miss_Diana]

Most of the time, the submissive is getting what they want out of the relationship/arrangement, and that's what keeps them there. The other thing is as mentioned, love.

If the sub isn't being fulfilled in some way, they usually won't stay, unless it's within marriage, then they would work harder at solving their issues.

 

[Miss_Diana]

Sorry to have gone on so much ... geesh, I think I'd better get to bed! fftobed:

 

[TTF14]

Is the main motivation/component of this lifestyle sex? Is that why most people "do" it?

 

[Abigail]

Ambien is a sleeping pill for insomnia. Unless things have changed, it wasn't available in injectible form. People have been known to do strange things while taking it, and not remembering.

Yeah, I was wondering about that too, and I wasn't able to find that Ambien was available in injectible form. However, in researching that online, there's apparently some goofballs out there that have been grinding the pill down into powder, dissolving in water, and then injecting. I don't quite get why one would want to do that. And it isn't especially safe, as the binding agents, fillers, coloring, etc. could cause problems when injected directly into the bloodstream. And injecting Ambien directly into the bloodstream rather than ingesting would be less effective, as it needs to be metabolized by the liver.

 

[Abigail]

Nice to meet you!

Yes, I've been in the lifestyle for many years ... I absolutely agree, she made her own decision, and I do not think she can use the lifestyle as an excuse.

I rather think that she (and/or her lawyer) were assuming that most people (i.e. jurors) would be clueless about the "lifestyle" as a choice -- or that the whole S&M thing entered into the master/slave relationship. I think the lawyer was simply trying to portray her as a younger woman in a relationship with a much older man, where she was completely dominated and abused. Actually, bringing out the master/slave thing has opened up a can of worms for defense. It can be proven that NV chose this lifestyle and that she actively pursued this relationship w/ SH and that she willingly went along with it all (I'm assuming that LE has already found what you guys have found). And the average juror, once they start hearing about the "lifestyle", are going to think it's all pretty sick -- if anything, it will prejudice them against NV rather than gaining her sympathy. In all honesty, I'm trying my hardest to keep an open mind, but I just can't wrap my head around being in a relationship where one person calls all the shots, or where abuse and/or humiliation is acceptable.

ETA: and now all you "lifestylers" can beat me up illowfight2: