GUILTY NY - DM, 6, & FM, 12, Huevelton, 13 August 2014 - #2

[Inthedetails]

They didn't just happen upon the girls, but had it planned, according to detective:

https://twitter.com/amandajpurcell/status/502564618162962435

 

[Miss_Diana]

I rather think that she (and/or her lawyer) were assuming that most people (i.e. jurors) would be clueless about the "lifestyle" as a choice -- or that the whole S&M thing entered into the master/slave relationship. I think the lawyer was simply trying to portray her as a younger woman in a relationship with a much older man, where she was completely dominated and abused. Actually, bringing out the master/slave thing has opened up a can of worms for defense. It can be proven that NV chose this lifestyle and that she actively pursued this relationship w/ SH and that she willingly went along with it all (I'm assuming that LE has already found what you guys have found). And the average juror, once they start hearing about the "lifestyle", are going to think it's all pretty sick -- if anything, it will prejudice them against NV rather than gaining her sympathy. In all honesty, I'm trying my hardest to keep an open mind, but I just can't wrap my head around being in a relationship where one person calls all the shots, or where abuse and/or humiliation is acceptable.

ETA: and now all you "lifestylers" can beat me up illowfight2:

BBM: This is absolutely not true for all those in this lifestyle.

It goes from the very mild form of control in the bedroom, to the very extreme form of sadism, etc.

I know it's hard to understand, but most who submit to this lifestyle, enjoy it and want it, even need it in some instances. The 'sub/slave' actually can benefit from submission, if lead by a "responsible mature adult".

 

[Inthedetails]

Thurs, Aug 21: Judge finds reasonable cause to send case to superior court:

http://www.ogd.com/article/20140821/DCO/140829660

 

[Miss_Diana]

Why call a relationship vanilla? It's a little offensive to me, IMO. My life might not be rope and shackles, but it's not vanilla and yawn worthy. It would be nice to drop the labels and just say compared to a non bdsm lifestyle instead of "vanilla relationship." No need to make one lifestyle seem superior to the other. (And I would say that going both ways.)

I promise I'm not being nit picky, but it's really irking me. That lifestyle has it's serious drawbacks as well...obviously. It's not better than anything else.

Sorry about the wording, I guess I'm so use to using it, that I didn't realize it might be offensive.

Note to self: remember to use different verbiage.

It's absolutely not better than anything or anybody, it's just 'there' for those who enjoy it, and are happier because of it. Or at least, that's the way it SHOULD be used.

 

[Abigail]

http://www.ogd.com/article/20140821/DCO/140829660

Fowler Town Justice Paul Lamson has found reasonable cause to send the case of a woman accused of helping kidnap two Amish girls up to superior court.

Bradford Riendeau, Ms. Vaisey’s attorney, has asked the court to release his client from custody. He said she is a lifelong county resident and expressed she could be at risk of harm from fellow inmates if she remains incarcerated. He said she would stay with family members.

Det. Sgt. Bigwarfe said Ms. Vaisey gave a statement to him and signed it during their interview.. She said she and Mr. Howells referred to the incident as a “shopping plan” and said he bought vegetables from the stand before coming up with the plan to kidnap the girls.

She said Mr. Howells tied a puppy to the driver’s side in the back seat so the girls would have to lean into the car to pet the dog. Mr. Howells had dropped his three children off with his ex at 6:30 p.m. the night of the kidnapping and they were at the vegetable stand off Mount Alone Road in Heuvelton by 6:45 p.m.
Mr. Howells shoved the two girls in the car and Ms. Vaisey drove away. She said their plan was to make the two girls their slaves.

Det. Sgt. Bigwarfe said the girls were handcuffed together like a three-legged race and cuffed to a bed. She said the girls were allowed to get up to use the bathroom and eat.

Ms. Vaisey told investigators she and Mr. Howells were scared by media reports and opted to release the girls in an isolated area. She said she drove the couple’s white vehicle to check for roadblocks and Mr. Howells followed her with the two girls.

Mr. Howells had scouted the stand days before they reportedly took the two girls.He told Ms. Vaisey he had seen the girls that day and wanted to go back and get them, according to the statement she provided investigators. The puppy was a Golden Retriever-Doberman mix named Kaleidoscope.

She said one of the girls was getting nervous as Mr. Howells started forcing them into the vehicle the girls started yelling.

 

[Miss_Diana]

I like vanilla. The most yummy scent. And taste.

I like my relationship where my hubby and I respect and love each other , most of the time. Lol

I like to be equal most of the time just as my hubby is equal most of the time.

I cannot imagine enjoying pain or choosing to be subservient to anyone.

All I can think of is those slaves living in the south in Thomas Jefferson's Monticello. So sad, to me

It is also sad, that those who abuse others, and use the BDSM lifestyle to cover for themselves, give it a bad name, for those who just want to live their life the way their happiest.

Trust me, most of those who choose this way of life, are very happy, and have successful marriages or relationships, some very long term.

It's NOT about abuse or beatings, or even disrespect. It's about fitting where you're the most comfortable in life, and finding someone who shares that perspective.

 

[Inthedetails]

SH and NV drove separate cars during abduction and during release. CORRECTION: Same car during abduction; separate cars during release.

Girls were handcuffed together and to the bed. The plan was to keep them as slaves.

Media coverage scared the perps so they released the girls.

Defense asked that NV be released into the care of family members as she would be at risk for being attacked in jail.

http://www.ogd.com/article/20140821/DCO/140829660

ETA: Correction about cars.

 

[TTF14]

No, it is not all about sex ... it's actually whatever two people decide on, it CAN be based on sex, or kept just in the bedroom, but it's often lived as a 'way of life'.

It also goes from one end of the spectrum (one partner makes the decisions), to the other end, total control, protocol, sadism, etc.

I don't even like to consider it a "lifestyle" actually, because for me, it's just who I am, it's natural for me to take the lead, make decisions and I have a dominant personality. I'm on the extreme opposite of what these two were.

Actually, more Doms (male dominants) are in it for the sex, than females. Not all, but more so.[/QUOTE]

BBM....I can't imagine that fact would surprise many people .

Earlier you said (I think it was you) that most submissives are getting what they want out of the relationship. Something to that effect. What kinds of things do you think they "get" or "want"? What types of people get satisfied by that? I'm just curious. Is it a security thing? A self esteem thing? Not able to make decisions on their own?

You're always so helpful answering these questions. I can't remember now what other thread you were on (SM and TM?) but I always enjoy your perspective, so thank you for sharing with us.

ETA: Sorry, that quote came through super weird!

 

[Miss_Diana]

I must say, this case has truly been a learning experience for me due to the lifestyle of the perps involved. Frankly, I don't care what kind of contract she signed or what role she's assumed in the relationship. What they BOTH did together to those little girls and clearly others according to the MSM, is illegal, immoral and entirely inexcusable.

As an aside, I'm assuming those in the lifestyle differentiate those not in the lifestyle by saying "vanilla". I don't know if it's meant in an insulting way or just to clarify the difference. It doesn't bother me one bit, I like vanilla

Yes Ontario Mom, that's exactly what it is, it's just a way of differentiating between the BDSM lifestyle, and those who do not live it.

 

[Inthedetails]

"Mr. Howells had dropped his three children off with his ex at 6:30 p.m. the night of the kidnapping and they were at the vegetable stand off Mount Alone Road in Heuvelton by 6:45 p.m."

http://www.ogd.com/article/20140821/DCO/140829660

 

[Miss_Diana]

I don't care what two consenting adults do, even though I don't think anybody should be demeaned in any relationship. These children didn't choose this lifestyle, and they are innocents in this. Nobody has the right to drag and force anybody into their choices.
It has chafed my butt every day when seeing "two Amish sisters sexually assaulted" on many many sites. It was on my local news at noon. He said the two people accused of sexually assaulting two Amish girls are due in court today. Kidnapping not mentioned. I have wondered if they feel free to blast this all over because the Amish won't be watching TV/internet to see it, and maybe not see the print. I don't think it would happen this way with non Amish victims. I have glanced through some missing girls articles and haven't seen this worded so blatantly. Just my rant and my O.

You are ABSOLUTELY correct, these two did something VERY wrong and ILLEGAL, the lifestyle is NO excuse... PERIOD!

"sigh" This is what gives the lifestyle a bad name, and I'd say 95% of those who choose this way of life, are hard working, average everyday folks, who do NOT break the law or harm children.

 

[Inthedetails]

Legal system question (so sorry to interrupt The Lifestyle convo!)....the judge at the preliminary hearing today sent the case to the superior court. Does that mean he sent it to the grand jury to review?

What does "send it to superior court" mean?

 

[human]

Oooooh. Poor NV. Yes, let her go home., must be so tough for her in jail. I am sure everyone is crying for her.

She needs to be locked up because she is a sociopath. She has no feelings or understanding of people at all, except for HERSELF!

Grrrrr!!!!!!

 

[Miss_Diana]

http://www.ogd.com/article/20140821/DCO/140829660

Fowler Town Justice Paul Lamson has found reasonable cause to send the case of a woman accused of helping kidnap two Amish girls up to superior court.

Bradford Riendeau, Ms. Vaisey’s attorney, has asked the court to release his client from custody. He said she is a lifelong county resident and expressed she could be at risk of harm from fellow inmates if she remains incarcerated. He said she would stay with family members.

Det. Sgt. Bigwarfe said Ms. Vaisey gave a statement to him and signed it during their interview.. She said she and Mr. Howells referred to the incident as a “shopping plan” and said he bought vegetables from the stand before coming up with the plan to kidnap the girls.

She said Mr. Howells tied a puppy to the driver’s side in the back seat so the girls would have to lean into the car to pet the dog. Mr. Howells had dropped his three children off with his ex at 6:30 p.m. the night of the kidnapping and they were at the vegetable stand off Mount Alone Road in Heuvelton by 6:45 p.m.
Mr. Howells shoved the two girls in the car and Ms. Vaisey drove away. She said their plan was to make the two girls their slaves.

Det. Sgt. Bigwarfe said the girls were handcuffed together like a three-legged race and cuffed to a bed. She said the girls were allowed to get up to use the bathroom and eat.

Ms. Vaisey told investigators she and Mr. Howells were scared by media reports and opted to release the girls in an isolated area. She said she drove the couple’s white vehicle to check for roadblocks and Mr. Howells followed her with the two girls.

Mr. Howells had scouted the stand days before they reportedly took the two girls.He told Ms. Vaisey he had seen the girls that day and wanted to go back and get them, according to the statement she provided investigators. The puppy was a Golden Retriever-Doberman mix named Kaleidoscope.

She said one of the girls was getting nervous as Mr. Howells started forcing them into the vehicle the girls started yelling.

This just makes me SICK! :sick:

 

[TTF14]

They drove separate cars.....does this mean they were each driving a car, or that they drove one for abduction and a different one for the release?

And, were they surprised by the media attention???? Just what did they thing would happen? Nobody would notice?

 

[TTF14]

If this monster's ex wife happens to be reading here......big, big hug for you. I can't imagine what this must feel like .

 

[Inthedetails]

They drove separate cars.....does this mean they were each driving a car, or that they drove one for abduction and a different one for the release?

And, were they surprised by the media attention???? Just what did they thing would happen? Nobody would notice?

He was in one car during the abduction, and she was in another. CORRECTION: Same car during abduction.

He was in one car during the release, and she was in another.

ETA: Correction added

 

[Inthedetails]

I'm still puzzled about the police interview with the perps at the station. It sounds like the perps drove themselves and voluntarily showed up to be interviewed? Where they contacted by LE beforehand but not apprehended? I'm missing something.

 

[Honey_West]

Disgusting. Absolutely infuriating. Sitting on my hands and timing myself out before I, say stuff. :furious:

 

[TTF14]

He was in one car during the abduction, and she was in another.

He was in one car during the release, and she was in another.

OK, so HE pushed the girls into the car, one was already screaming, slammed the door, and then SHE drove off with them while HE jumped into another idling car? So then SHE drove home with two terrified girls, likely crying and asking "why? why? why?" "where are we going??", and.....nothing?? No empathy from her? No "OMG, what the hell am I doing???"

Yes, totally sounds like she had no choice in the matter. :gaah: