NY - Ghislaine Maxwell, Jeffrey Epstein confidante, arrested on Sex Abuse charges, Jul 2020 #5

[investikater]

DBM

 

[investikater]

Hmmm...

And when exactly is the right timing to seek Justice?

VG is not the culprit in this disgusting case.

She with other (then) girls are victims.

Whatever time is always right for perps to pay for their crimes.

Too bad if the timing is not convenient for criminals.

JMO

"Curiously, however, when it comes to what allegedly happened between Virginia and Prince Andrew, she has little sympathy for her former friend. ‘I don’t think she [Virginia] deserves any compensation. I don’t think she was coerced into doing anything.
...
Although she believed her friend’s account at the time, Carolyn adds: ‘I don’t think Virginia deserves anything less than what Maxwell is getting because she trafficked me into a world of spiralling downward slopes and it has taken my husband John 12 long years to get me to love myself again.’
A vulnerable child with a troubled past and chaotic homelife, Carolyn was just 13 when she met Virginia Roberts."

Source:

Witness at Maxwell's trial waives anonymity and makes new claim

Carolyn and Virginia - then Roberts, now Giuffre - were members of the depraved couple's harem of vulnerable teens and young women, recruited by Maxwell to provide sexual favours for Epstein.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Just a snippet. Please read the entire article.

 

[Cool Cats]

Even if PA is a criminal - which is an allegation which has not been proven in a criminal or civil court - his family, his mother the late QE2, the institution of the Monarchy of the UK and Commonwealth, and its subjects the population of the UK and Commonwealth - are not criminals and don't deserve to be punished for something they had nothing to do with.

They wern't.

 

[investikater]

Hmmm...

And when exactly is the right timing to seek Justice?

VG is not the culprit in this disgusting case.

She with other (then) girls are victims.

Whatever time is always right for perps to pay for their crimes.

Too bad if the timing is not convenient for criminals.

JMO

PA has not been found guilty in a criminal or civil court and is therefore presumed innocent, and not a criminal.

The timing also impacted a lot of other people - his family, his mother the late QE2, the institution of the Monarchy, and its millions of subjects in the UK and Commonwealth. I am not commenting on whether that was right or wrong, merely stating MY OBSERVATION AND OPINION that the timing was impactful on many people.

 

[Forest_Wood]

PA has not been found guilty in a criminal or civil court and is therefore presumed innocent, and not a criminal.

The timing also impacted a lot of other people - his family, his mother the late QE2, the institution of the Monarchy, and its millions of subjects in the UK and Commonwealth. I am not commenting on whether that was right or wrong, merely stating MY OBSERVATION AND OPINION that the timing was impactful on many people.

"The timing of VRGs suit against PA was IN MY OPINION purposefully chosen to be in the lead up to an important royal event in order to exert as much pressure for a settlement as possible IN MY OPINION"

With all due respect Investikater, you said that the timing was purposefully chosen to exert pressure for a settlement.

VG was a true victim here and your comment seems to be blaming her imo for trying to hold a rich world leader accountable for allegedly exploiting her as a trafficked teenager.

What timing would have been more appropriate for you?

 

[investikater]

What timing would have been more appropriate for you?

It's a fair question.

After the Jubilee. That was a planned event known well before hand.

Waiting until after the QE2's death would probably be unreasonable to expect as it was unpredictable, although she was very elderly, so not that unpredictable.

 

[investikater]

VG was a true victim here and your comment seems to be blaming her imo for trying to hold a rich world leader accountable for allegedly exploiting her as a trafficked teenager.

Please read this article in full

Witness at Maxwell's trial waives anonymity and makes new claim

Carolyn and Virginia - then Roberts, now Giuffre - were members of the depraved couple's harem of vulnerable teens and young women, recruited by Maxwell to provide sexual favours for Epstein.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[investikater]

With all due respect Investikater, you said that the timing was purposefully chosen to exert pressure for a settlement.

Yes I do SUSPECT it was. I think an observation of the timing is seperate to a judgement of that decision.

Are you saying that you believe despite planning the lawsuit for years that VRGs legal team filed it just before the Jubilee by coincidence? I mean its certainly possible but it just seems unlikely to me.

Lawyers IN MY OPiNION can feel entitled to play games that are only just technically legal but not in the spirit of the law. I don't personally respect legal outcomes 'won' using what are more like tricks that legitimate legal processes, like pressure from outside the legal system.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Please read this article in full

Witness at Maxwell's trial waives anonymity and makes new claim

Carolyn and Virginia - then Roberts, now Giuffre - were members of the depraved couple's harem of vulnerable teens and young women, recruited by Maxwell to provide sexual favours for Epstein.

www.dailymail.co.uk

What is it about this article that you want to point out?

 

[Legally Bland]

VG's claim was time barred until New York's Child Victims Act in 2019. This included a "look back window" where time barred victims could make a claim, from 14 August 2019 to 14 August 2021.

She couldn't have made a claim after the Jubilee.

New York State’s Sexual Abuse Lookback Statutes - Peters Brovner LLP

In February 2019, New York State passed a “lookback window,” the Child Victims Act (CVA), extending the statute of limitations for survivors of child sexual abuse in criminal and civil cases in New York.

petersbrovner.com

 

[Forest_Wood]

It's a fair question.

After the Jubilee. That was a planned event known well before hand.

Waiting until after the QE2's death would probably be unreasonable to expect as it was unpredictable, although she was very elderly, so not that unpredictable.

Are you saying had the lawsuit been brought at any time other than the Jubilee that it would have resulted in Andrew deciding not to pay and it would have had less impact on the lives of the queen and royal family?

 

[investikater]

Are you saying had the lawsuit been brought at any time other than the Jubilee that it would have resulted in Andrew deciding not to pay and it would have had less impact on the lives of the queen and royal family?

Yes I am saying that.

IN MY OPINION PA wanted and intended to go to civil court.
Source:

The Royals Are “Deeply Shocked” Over Prince Andrew Demanding a Trial

There are “deep, deep worries.”

www.cosmopolitan.com

IN MY OPINION PA was planning to call witnesses such as CA.
Source:

Andrew 'may call Maxwell victim for DEFENCE to prove accuser wasn't a victim'

PRINCE Andrew’s lawyers may call one of Ghislaine Maxwell’s victims in a bid to fight the rape lawsuit he’s facing. Accuser Virginia Roberts Giuffre said she is unlikely to accept…

www.thesun.co.uk

IN MY OPINION this was not possible because the trial would have overshadowed the Jubilee.
Source:

Prince Andrew Lawsuit Will Cast 'Shadow' Over Queen's Jubilee After Ruling

Prince Andrew's bombshell sex abuse trial was given the go ahead by a judge—and will run in the year Queen Elizabeth II celebrates 70 years on the throne.

www.newsweek.com

Prince Andrew's settlement with Virginia Giuffre removes a cloud over Platinum Jubilee

The priority now is - as the Duke's late father Prince Philip reiterated many times - the institution of the monarchy as a whole, not the individual

inews.co.uk

IN MY OPINION the pressure from PW and PC was misguided and they miscalculated the effect the settlement would have on the queen, the family and Monarchy.
Source:

Royal damage control: Why the queen left Prince Andrew to fight case as ‘private citizen’

Analysis: The 95-year-old monarch moved to demote her second son a day after a judge in the United States allowed a civil lawsuit accusing Andrew of sexual abuse to proceed.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[investikater]

VG's claim was time barred until New York's Child Victims Act in 2019. This included a "look back window" where time barred victims could make a claim, from 14 August 2019 to 14 August 2021.

She couldn't have made a claim after the Jubilee.

New York State’s Sexual Abuse Lookback Statutes - Peters Brovner LLP

In February 2019, New York State passed a “lookback window,” the Child Victims Act (CVA), extending the statute of limitations for survivors of child sexual abuse in criminal and civil cases in New York.

petersbrovner.com

There were at least 2 other jurisdictions she could have sued him in. The link to New York was extremely weak. The allegations were in the UK and in the VI

 

[investikater]

I will concede that if PA had (or if he does in the future) go to trial, that he may lose which would have (or will be) even worse than the settlement.

He may lose because he may be guilty - I personally IN MY OPINION doubt this but it of course may be true.

He may also lose because IN MY OPINION he is very stupid.

Considering how stupid PA is IN MY OPINION I understand why PW and PC reportedly wanted the settlement. I just think it was a mistake.

Sources:

https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-life/royals/prince-andrews-bid-to-overturn-virginia-giuffre-settlement/news-story/77d8137579788bd4598804f353255663

Charles and William pile pressure on Andrew to settle OUT of court

Members of the Royal Family will urge the Duke of York to settle with Virginia Giuffre, which could cost him £10million, but he wants to tackle the accusations of rape and sexual assault.

www.dailymail.co.uk

‘Idiot’ Prince Andrew is ‘not at all bright,’ royal experts savagely declare

Royal courtiers told author Valentine Low that the Prince was “not easy to deal with” and “very arrogant indeed.”

nypost.com

 

[CuriousCricket]

It's a fair question.

After the Jubilee. That was a planned event known well before hand.

Waiting until after the QE2's death would probably be unreasonable to expect as it was unpredictable, although she was very elderly, so not that unpredictable.

There's an old saying: "You cannot legislate morality." So, the law deals with tangible milestones like age.

It does appears -- at least to me -- that VRG is "cut from a different bolt of cloth" than Carolyn and various of the other victims.

 

[CuriousCricket]

He may also lose because IN MY OPINION he is very stupid.

For years now, watching this unfold, I have arrived at the same OPINION of PA's mental capabilities. I suspect he was "easy pickings" for the JBs and GMs of the world -- protected and naive. "Innocent" legally? -- I have my doubts. Although, I would expect that fine alcohol and drugs might have been part of the regular supplies of JB and GM.

"Old Money" such as PA grew up with don't overly indulge their children with all the shiny baubles that "New Money" does -- or such has been my experience in much lesser circles. Having a very rich and very "generous" friend like JB must have been fun for the second son of a monarch. I suspect he was very easily led.

I also suspect smart lawyers and smart "victims" are using every trick to manage and herd this case through the courts.

I personally feel great sympathy for the very elderly QEII and PP who were undoubtedly very hurt and harmed by this case -- and by the PH & MM fiasco. What pain they must have endured in their final months and years.

From the article, my heart hurts for "Carolyn". But, in all honesty, I have lesser sympathy for others.

 

[Dotta]

Having sympathy for some and "lesser sympathy" for others does not change the simple fact that the girls were victims of devious, ruthless, perverted and powerful people.

That is how things stand.

As for lawyers being "smart".
Good!

Who would want to hire a dumb lawyer?

JMO

 

[sds71]

Who would want to hire a dumb lawyer?

JMO

Doe 174


moo

 

[WiseOwl]

He just needed one contact, and I suspect he got that contact in 1974.

"From September 1971, he attended the Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences at New York University studying mathematical physiology, but left without receiving a degree in June 1974." (From Wikipedia).

Maybe he had to leave because of the grades. But if we look at overnight billionaires who dropped out of Harvard, they usually do it when they realize they found the job of their lives that would be more important than a diploma. Only usually it is business, but in JE's case, I think, it was really a connection. A connection that made the diploma irrelevant. And that explains how he got into the school as a math teacher, and through Bears Stern. I think he was smart enough, and very ambitious, and money-driven, but what shaped his story, we don't know. We might, though, when/if the initial participants are dead or retire. We might know less about the visitors to his Lolita Island, but the origins we might know about, eventually.

In 1974, Epstein was 21. And, it was Nixon's/Ford's time. Different America, different mentality, a very different world.

The life of Jeffrey Epstein, the convicted sex offender and well-connected financier who died in jail awaiting sex trafficking charges

Jeffrey Epstein, a New York-based financier, died by suicide while awaiting trial for charges of conspiracy and sex trafficking minors.

www.businessinsider.com

When he was a teacher, Epstein tutored Bear Stearns chairman Ace Greenberg's son and "was friendly" with his daughter, and left the school in 1976 to work at the firm, Vanity Fair reported. Epstein did well at the firm and was made a limited partner before he decided to leave in 1981 to start his own firm.

Once he set up J. Epstein and Co. in 1982, Epstein's wealth and career got increasingly murky.

New York Magazine credited "those who know Epstein" and "lore" for the only existing and still vague details of the firm's business, which for tax purposes, was run from the island of St. Thomas in the US Virgin Islands. The firm only accepted clients with $1 billion or more of assets and has been shrouded in secrecy since its founding. Les Wexner, the founder of the clothing brand The Limited and a high-flyer in the fashion industry, has been the only identified client of the firm.

So how did a relatively unknown Epstein manage to set up a business that only accepted clients with $1 billion or more worth of assets? What type of business was it and who exactly were these clients?

 

[Forest_Wood]

Yes I am saying that.

IN MY OPINION PA wanted and intended to go to civil court.
Source:

The Royals Are “Deeply Shocked” Over Prince Andrew Demanding a Trial

There are “deep, deep worries.”

www.cosmopolitan.com

IN MY OPINION PA was planning to call witnesses such as CA.
Source:

Andrew 'may call Maxwell victim for DEFENCE to prove accuser wasn't a victim'

PRINCE Andrew’s lawyers may call one of Ghislaine Maxwell’s victims in a bid to fight the rape lawsuit he’s facing. Accuser Virginia Roberts Giuffre said she is unlikely to accept…

www.thesun.co.uk

IN MY OPINION this was not possible because the trial would have overshadowed the Jubilee.
Source:

Prince Andrew Lawsuit Will Cast 'Shadow' Over Queen's Jubilee After Ruling

Prince Andrew's bombshell sex abuse trial was given the go ahead by a judge—and will run in the year Queen Elizabeth II celebrates 70 years on the throne.

www.newsweek.com

Prince Andrew's settlement with Virginia Giuffre removes a cloud over Platinum Jubilee

The priority now is - as the Duke's late father Prince Philip reiterated many times - the institution of the monarchy as a whole, not the individual

inews.co.uk

IN MY OPINION the pressure from PW and PC was misguided and they miscalculated the effect the settlement would have on the queen, the family and Monarchy.
Source:

Royal damage control: Why the queen left Prince Andrew to fight case as ‘private citizen’

Analysis: The 95-year-old monarch moved to demote her second son a day after a judge in the United States allowed a civil lawsuit accusing Andrew of sexual abuse to proceed.

www.nbcnews.com

I feel that's like saying something akin to, "It's too bad that girl claiming she was raped by Daddy didn't wait until after so-and-so's spring wedding before she brought a lawsuit against our family. How unkind and inappropriate of her for not being more considerate to our poor family. Now we all must deal with this before so-and-so's special day. How awful for us to be forced to deal with this accusation!"

It's ridiculous thinking IMO and just another way to minimize and negate what Andrew was up to. There was also another girl who accused him of sexual assault by grabbing her breast. And those are the only ones we've heard about publicly. Where there's smoke, there's fire. It was a pattern of behaviour by him imo. No amount of sugar-coating it will make it less so. MOO.

I mean, this is the royal family for goodness sake! The son of the queen travelling the world as Randy Andy, sexually involved with minors through his connections.

It's just disgusting any way you look at it imo.

ETA: With GM in prison for being the Madam of the rich and famous, Andrew is one fortunate person to not be in prison also. It only took him a few million $$$$ to buy his way out. MOO.