NY - Ghislaine Maxwell, Jeffrey Epstein confidante, arrested on Sex Abuse charges, July 2020 #2

[tayaway]

Is there only a picture of them together, and her statement that she was "sex trafficked" to him? He has emphatically denied that he had sex with her. A picture doesn't mean that he slept with her.

Aside from VG's statement that Prince Andrew raped her, is there any other evidence that this occurred? Is it "he said, she said"?

There are witnesses (ETA: not for the actual intercourse). It's not PA/GM/JE's word against VRG. If you click on this link I posted earlier, you'll see that one of JE's former employees is willing to testify that he saw PA groping VRG by the pool. ETA: Let's not forget that PA is saying he never even met VEG before. So if he's lying about that (and there are witnesses willing to testify), what else would he lie about?

The Sun Aug 14

One of JE's former employees, Steve Scully, is ready to testify about PA/VRG if VRG's legal team asks him to.
SBM

 

[tayaway]

US lawyer Spencer Kuvin, who represents several of convicted paedophile financier Epstein's victims, suggested that Andrew's legal team may claim the duke - who was a trade envoy in 2001, when Ms Giuffre claims he raped and sexually abused her - had diplomatic immunity.

He told the Mirror: 'Ms Giuffre's lawyers have huge barriers to overcome to get her lawsuit anywhere near a jury. If the Duke engages in the case at all, his legal team will undoubtedly file a motion to dismiss the complaint on numerous different grounds. For sure, they would argue diplomatic immunity. They would have a strong case.'

Prince Andrew's lawyers 'will say he has diplomatic immunity over sex abuse lawsuit' | Daily Mail Online

Diplomatic immunity? Why would he need that, he's never even met VGR, has he? Only the queen herself has immunity wherever she goes in the world; other royals can be arrested and charged with crimes. How does that work with lawsuits? I've no clue, but, if PA has diplomatic immunity, wouldn't VRG's lawyers already have sussed that out and have dropped the lawsuit idea? Oddly enough, PA's jaunts to JE's private island and Manhattan mansion are probably not considered diplomatic trips. PA had d.i. when he was a UK trade envoy, but that ended in 2011. His rep is already trashed and he's lost his royal bonuses, like having his own office. Even if he is served papers and loses the case, it's either Mumsy or the Brit taxpayers that'll foot the £14 million, since he doesn't have an income.

 

[Estelle]

I heard that after they have finished with PA, they are going to go after Clinton if they have been successful. This case is a test case as there is more evidence against Clinton.

But why not go after Clinton now?

 

[Estelle]

Diplomatic immunity? Why would he need that, he's never even met VGR, has he? Only the queen herself has immunity wherever she goes in the world; other royals can be arrested and charged with crimes. How does that work with lawsuits? I've no clue, but, if PA has diplomatic immunity, wouldn't VRG's lawyers already have sussed that out and have dropped the lawsuit idea? Oddly enough, PA's jaunts to JE's private island and Manhattan mansion are probably not considered diplomatic trips. PA had d.i. when he was a UK trade envoy, but that ended in 2011. His rep is already trashed and he's lost his royal bonuses, like having his own office. Even if he is served papers and loses the case, it's either Mumsy or the Brit taxpayers that'll foot the £14 million, since he doesn't have an income.

I read that the Queen will not be paying anything and neither will the taxpayers or Prince Charles.

I'm not sure if there is enough evidence. But if there is, can GM save him?

 

[mickey2942]

There are witnesses (ETA: not for the actual intercourse). It's not PA/GM/JE's word against VRG. If you click on this link I posted earlier, you'll see that one of JE's former employees is willing to testify that he saw PA groping VRG by the pool. ETA: Let's not forget that PA is saying he never even met VEG before. So if he's lying about that (and there are witnesses willing to testify), what else would he lie about?

Actually, I would give him the benefit of doubt. He meets tons of women. And parties a lot. He can't remember one? And is he responsible to ask the age of every women he has sex with? What if she lied?

I don't see this as a slam dunk. I am not a fan of Prince Andrew or the Royal Family.

 

[Luna20]

Is there only a picture of them together, and her statement that she was "sex trafficked" to him? He has emphatically denied that he had sex with her. A picture doesn't mean that he slept with her.

Aside from VG's statement that Prince Andrew raped her, is there any other evidence that this occurred? Is it "he said, she said"?

From that Sun article ‘Steve’ says he will testify BUT HE DOESNT HAVE PHOTOS so it appears it will be “he said, he said” He use to work for PA, he seems disgruntled.


“He told The Sun on Sunday: “I was working on the phone and he (Andrew) was by the pool with Virginia. As soon as I saw him, I recognised him.


“I thought, ‘If I had a camera in my bag right now, I’d have a $50,000 picture’.”

Steve says they were “bumping and grinding” for several minutes before lying on lounge chairs by the pool”

Witness prepared to testify that he saw Prince Andrew groping Virginia Roberts

 

[mickey2942]

From that Sun article ‘Steve’ says he will testify BUT HE DOESNT HAVE PHOTOS so it appears it will be “he said, he said” He use to work for PA, he seems disgruntled.


“He told The Sun on Sunday: “I was working on the phone and he (Andrew) was by the pool with Virginia. As soon as I saw him, I recognised him.


“I thought, ‘If I had a camera in my bag right now, I’d have a $50,000 picture’.”

Steve says they were “bumping and grinding” for several minutes before lying on lounge chairs by the pool”

Witness prepared to testify that he saw Prince Andrew groping Virginia Roberts

VR would do better to find more young women who will bolster her claims. The literal tsunami of women who claimed they were raped by Harvey Weinstein and Bill Cosby was the key to the wins. INMO.

 

[escape2sc]

I don't have a problem with Andrew not remembering taking a picture with Virginia. I have a problem with the statements made in his interview - 1) not sweating - there are pictures of him with sweaty armpit stains during the same time frame leaving a venue 2) he never parties - numerous pictures of him at parties 3) only wears a suit and tie in London - numerous pictures of him in shirts and jeans leaving night clubs 4) he stayed with Epstein for 4 days after Epstein was convicted because it was the honorable way to end a friendship 5) Andrew claims he did not know Epstein had been charged with sex crimes when Epstein attended Beatrice or Eugenie's birthday party. How could Andrew not know - the charges made international news, he was good friends with Ghislane, and Andrew has security protection and numerous employees tasked with avoiding public image pitfalls.

Andrew's credibility leaves much to be desired after the sell of his house for $4 million over the asking price to the son in law of the former President of Kazakhstan after the house had been on the market for 5 years. He vacationed with a convicted arms dealer.

I would like an explanation for ...

1) the flight records and the Court Circular records show Andrew in the same location of either one of Epstein's residences or Epstein's plane during the time frame Virginia was with Epstein. Also, I am not sure he can claim Diplomatic Immunity when the Court Circular shows him taking personal time that coincides with Andrew being on the flight records.

2) There have to be security or daily agenda records - that could prove or disprove where, when and who Andrew was with - especially when in the US but none have been offered to show he was anywhere near Virginia in New York or the Island.

3) What is the truth about Andrew cooperating with the Southern District of New York investigation or the victim's attorneys. Is he or isn't he ?

 

[mickey2942]

PA doesn't have to explain anything. He can be silent for the entire trial, if it comes to that.

A sale of a house to an arms dealer is irrelevant to the charges VR is making.

The issue is, did PA have sex with VR? If that cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, I don't see how PA will be convicted.

 

[tayaway]

PA doesn't have to explain anything. He can be silent for the entire trial, if it comes to that.

A sale of a house to an arms dealer is irrelevant to the charges VR is making.

The issue is, did PA have sex with VR? If that cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, I don't see how PA will be convicted.

It's a lawsuit, not a criminal trial. ETA: You know who does have the photos/vid if it did happen? JE - oh wait. GM?

 

[tayaway]

I heard that after they have finished with PA, they are going to go after Clinton if they have been successful. This case is a test case as there is more evidence against Clinton.

But why not go after Clinton now?

I read that the Queen will not be paying anything and neither will the taxpayers or Prince Charles.

I'm not sure if there is enough evidence. But if there is, can GM save him?

Can you please post the link?

 

[escape2sc]

PA doesn't have to explain anything. He can be silent for the entire trial, if it comes to that.

A sale of a house to an arms dealer is irrelevant to the charges VR is making.

The issue is, did PA have sex with VR? If that cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, I don't see how PA will be convicted.

Andrew's not explaining anything has been disastrous for him.
I only mentioned the records to prove Andrew was not with Epstein during the time frame Virginia claims because Andrew has been haunted by these allegations for several years now . If he had records he could have submitted those to Virginia's lawyers and shut down the scandal a long time ago. If he had records he could have avoided the train wreck interview and would still be performing his public duties. I have to wonder if not explaining anything was the lesser of two evils.

 

[Luna20]

VR would do better to find more young women who will bolster her claims. The literal tsunami of women who claimed they were raped by Harvey Weinstein and Bill Cosby was the key to the wins. INMO.

True. If there are others I imagine they will come forward now that VR has filed suit.

 

[mickey2942]

Andrew's not explaining anything has been disastrous for him.
I only mentioned the records to prove Andrew was not with Epstein during the time frame Virginia claims because Andrew has been haunted by these allegations for several years now . If he had records he could have submitted those to Virginia's lawyers and shut down the scandal a long time ago. If he had records he could have avoided the train wreck interview and would still be performing his public duties. I have to wonder if not explaining anything was the lesser of two evils.

The train wreck interview was more like the "Titanic". Every single word he said, was just like "Full Speed Ahead" on the Titanic! I just couldn't believe how stupid it was. Doesn't this guy have access to attorneys? Publicists? Someone who puts a hand over his mouth?

 

[Estelle]

Actually, I would give him the benefit of doubt. He meets tons of women. And parties a lot. He can't remember one? And is he responsible to ask the age of every women he has sex with? What if she lied?

I don't see this as a slam dunk. I am not a fan of Prince Andrew or the Royal Family.

PA should have asked for VR's birth certificate as her age is borderline for me.

I am also giving PA the benefit of the doubt.

I cannot imagine he paid for her airfare to visit him in London. If she was trafficked, that would be by Epstein IMO. I see this as a case of VR and her lawyer trying to bleed PA for as much money as they can get out of him. Her lawyer gets 50%!

 

[Legally Bland]

PA doesn't have to explain anything. He can be silent for the entire trial, if it comes to that.

A sale of a house to an arms dealer is irrelevant to the charges VR is making.

The issue is, did PA have sex with VR? If that cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, I don't see how PA will be convicted.

Speaking just of the civil case then it's judged on the balance of probabilities, ie. which version of events is more likely, rather than beyond a reasonable doubt. PA's version is he never met VR. VR's version is she was abused by PA in NY, London and Little St. James. We don't know much evidence yet, but so far there is photo evidence putting PA and VR together in London, Steve Scully prepared to testify under oath to put them together in Little St. James and Johanna Sjoberg's deposition putting them together in New York.

For me VR's version of events has much more credibility so far.

 

[mickey2942]

Would PA be required to cross the pond, and come to the United States for testimony? Can he decide not to come here? I am pretty sure if he is a "no show", VR would get a default judgment. And then what? Apparently, he has nothing in his name, no income.

 

[tayaway]

Would PA be required to cross the pond, and come to the United States for testimony? Can he decide not to come here? I am pretty sure if he is a "no show", VR would get a default judgment. And then what? Apparently, he has nothing in his name, no income.

Maybe the most we can expect is that the Met actually does their job and investigates on their end? Seems unlikely, since the Met destroyed the records of that night.

Earlier this year [2020] the former Royal guard told this newspaper that he recalled making a complaint to his boss about allegedly abusive conduct by Andrew when he arrived at the Palace in a car driven by his personal protection officer.

To confirm his account, the ex-officer – who had a 23-year career with the police – asked for access to his shift roster at Buckingham Palace and other documents. Last week, 149 days after making the request, he finally received a reply from a caseworker at the Met’s Information Rights Unit in Sidcup, Kent. An email said: ‘I conducted a number of searches. However the Retention and Disposal Policy states that Duty Records and Annual Leave records are only held for 2 years. Therefore, there is no information the Commissioner is required to supply you.’

So this officer who had a complaint against PA about the night in question, he can't even access his own logs, b/c they no longer exist? Well... It seems to be hollow words the Met threw at the commoners.

Reuters Aug 16

While Andrew remains a person of interest to prosecutors in the office of the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York, they do not expect to be able to interview him in the foreseeable future, if ever, according to the source.

IMO: At the very least, the lawsuit will destroy any chance of Randy Andy rehabilitating his rep, although it was garbage to begin with --and as long as Mumsy continues to foot his lifestyle and he still has his oligarch pals to party with, what does PA really care?

 

[mickey2942]

@tayaway well, that wraps it up pretty neatly in a bow. Why am I not surprised?!

 

[rjay]

I read that the Queen will not be paying anything and neither will the taxpayers or Prince Charles.

I'm not sure if there is enough evidence. But if there is, can GM save him?

Doesn’t matter, they have already paid for his legal fees through his salary and I’m sure many other “gifts” he’s received from the Queen. Don’t be fooled!

MOO