Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - #12

[LolaAngelina]

Sorry to quote myself, but just wondering...does this case have its own WS thread, and if so, what is the name? (since the name of the lady and 3 little girls is not known).

Here we go:

NH NH - Allenstown - Adult Female and 3 Children, found Nov'85 & May'00 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[zwiebel]

<modsnip>

It's also crossed my mind what might emerge if, halfway through the trial, GR sees that he is losing and decides to plead guilty and get it over with. I should think he's pretty near breaking point now, and I think he's the impulsive type....and he's definitely demonstrated an ability to use the people closest to him, and drag them down with him, if he has to go.

Well. I woke up this morning a bit depressed. I've been trying to do something for the dearest missing little baby boy for a while now, but I couldn't bear to put him anywhere he'd be alone. Now I have somewhere where he'll have the best and most caring company anyone could wish for - and I managed to lose everything I'd done for him late last night. In a second. Sigh.

This morning I think that things aren't so bad at all. I can make a fresh start, no problem. Things could be much worse. Facing a future where I had to put my trust in the hands of someone like GR, for example. Now, that would be really depressing.

 

[gloria65]

Do you think ES is still standing by GR, gloria65?

Yes I do.

 

[nanasbabes]

Just waiting for the signs to come in this week so they can be passed out to help with supporting Justice for Jenn! Wanted to check in and see if there was any new news. Hope everyone is having a great Tuesday. Z you are always on my mind!! You are a Hero for sure.

 

[Abigail]

A friend of mine shared a quote from Margaret Thatcher:

Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren’t.

Was just thinking of this, in terms of this case, except I would exchange the word for powerful to...
...honest
...compassionate
...?
:facepalm:

 

[zwiebel]

Just waiting for the signs to come in this week so they can be passed out to help with supporting Justice for Jenn! Wanted to check in and see if there was any new news. Hope everyone is having a great Tuesday. Z you are always on my mind!! You are a Hero for sure.

nanasbabes, there are definitely some heroes around this case, and it definitely isn't me. I'm glad the signs are on the way though - I forget who originally designed them now (if it was one of our posters), but whoever it was, thank you! They really are lovely and it's something I've never been able to get the hang of.

I check in dreading that there will be news - just not the news I want to hear! I do think that it must be pretty like torture for any victim's family, having to wait everyday to see if a suspect posts bail.

I am hoping that they have been able to sign up for that alert system, so they will receive ample notice if GR is freed. And although I really do try hard to be sympathetic when I can, in this case I am just wishing and wishing and wishing that GR stays right where he is now, until the trial. It's better for everyone, imo.

 

[zwiebel]

Wow, I just saw a pic of Jennifer's t-shirts, they are lovely too. I would love to get one and was really tempted to ask that kind person offering to hand them over in person if they could meet me in Berlin......Germany. Or Norwich.....England.

That's probably pushing it a bit far though. I'd also be inundated with questions again if I wore one. After the ribbons in my tree, I still get asked by housewives here if Jennifer's shopping basket has been located yet. It is incomprehensible to them that Jennifer would not have carried one, and that it would not have been found and handed in by now if she had indeed gone 'shopping'. They let me know in no uncertain terms what they think, when I tell them I don't believe anything has been found.

 

[zwiebel]

O/T but I have got a little bit obsessed with checking the Chenango Sheriff's website because I don't want to miss the moment their media releases are updated - I don't know why, I can't help it!

The recovered stolen property has been updated though. And it seems to be listing a white tailed deer? Is that normal in Chenango County; are people really pinching deer? I don't understand how they catch them, or who they could be stolen from.

 

[Bettylou4you]

O/T but I have got a little bit obsessed with checking the Chenango Sheriff's website because I don't want to miss the moment their media releases are updated - I don't know why, I can't help it!

The recovered stolen property has been updated though. And it seems to be listing a white tailed deer? Is that normal in Chenango County; are people really pinching deer? I don't understand how they catch them, or who they could be stolen from.

Probably road kill.

 

[upstate]

Probably road kill.

Probably true

:floorlaugh:

 

[zwiebel]

Has a fb page and blog disappeared anyone? Please tell me it's not just me imagining it, it's made my night.

 

[upstate]

Has a fb page and blog disappeared anyone? Please tell me it's not just me imagining it, it's made my night.

I think you are correct Z

 

[zwiebel]

It's probably for the best, for all concerned.

 

[Abigail]

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...o-law-enforcement/expanded/expandhomicidemain

90% of murderers are male.

Only 1 to 2% of murders are by serial killers

53% of murder victims were killed by someone they knew.

37% of female murder victims were killed by their husband/boyfriend

When a murder is committed by a family member, the wife is the most likely person to be murdered (most unlikely is a sister killed by brother)

When a wife is murdered by her husband, 70% of the time it is during an argument (over finances, love triangle, etc.)

 

[Abigail]

David Buss, Psychologist, University of Texas, conducted numerous studies investigating the underlying motives and circumstances of murders, from those of serial killers to the perfectly friendly next-door neighbor who one day commits murder.

He examined FBI files of more than 429,729 homicide case files; 13,670 of which were cases in which a husband killed his wife.

One study conducted by Dr. Buss on “normal” individuals not convicted of any serious crime revealed that 90% of husbands had at least once entertained a fantasy of killing their wife. Among the men who entertained thoughts of murdering their mates, 54 percent were triggered by the woman ending the relationship.

Of course, most people don’t carry out fantasies of murder, due to restraints of morality and the fear of being caught and sent to prison for a very long time. However, when fantasy does become reality, it often catches everyone by surprise.

“Though we may like to think that murderers are either pathological misfits or hardened criminals,” he added, “the vast majority of murders are committed by people who, until the day they kill, seem perfectly normal.”

The most dangerous time for a woman to be murdered by her husband is when she is making plans to leave the marriage (85% of all wife murders).

“Just when women feel as though they have successfully escaped a bad marriage is precisely the time when their lives are most in danger,” he added. “It is likely that the key danger is not the length of time per se but, rather, when the man realizes she will never return to him.”
http://www.utexas.edu/features/2005/murder/

 

[zwiebel]

I wish someone, somewhere, would conduct a comprehensive survey on the behaviour of killers before they killed. To see if those who were close to them noticed anything amiss, or saw any signs they might kill one day.

It is my belief that in the vast majority of cases, people have no idea at all someone is a potential killer. It is just a bit more comforting I suppose, to think ordinary people don't do it, and if we were in danger, we would be able tell somehow; they would give clues that we could pick up on, and so avoid being murdered ourselves.

It is very frightening to think that the nice neighbour next door, or the family member who is loved and trusted, might be capable of killing and nobody would know.

A poster on another thread told me the majority of murderers only murder once. I don't know the details of those stats - maybe it's because many are in prison for so long they are not physically capable of murdering again when released? Whatever the reason, it seems to imply most murderers can be rehabilitated, if true. I doubt it would apply to cases where domestic violence culminates in murder, as there seems to be a huge problem with repeat offending with domestic violence against spouses/partners.

Not that stats make any difference to me; I'd just think, 'If they have done it once they could do it again, to me'. I'm no gambler where murder is concerned. I wouldn't trust my own judgement, or anybody elses. You wouldn't see me for dust.

ETA Abigail's just made this post out of date; see her answer to my questions above!

 

[zwiebel]

Well, how funny Abigail. While I was composing my question, you were composing an answer before I'd even asked!

 

[Abigail]

A poster on another thread told me the majority of murderers only murder once. I don't know the details of those stats - maybe it's because many are in prison for so long they are not physically capable of murdering again when released? Whatever the reason, it seems to imply most murderers can be rehabilitated, if true. I doubt it would apply to cases where domestic violence culminates in murder, as there seems to be a huge problem with repeat offending with domestic violence against spouses/partners.

The FBI site indicated that 48% of murders are committed by one person against one person. But that has to do with the specific murder, not whether one would murder again.

Josh Powell did, as did Drew Peterson (if we assume, as does LE, that the long missing wives are dead). I remember reading a case just a month or so ago, of a man in prison for murdering his wife, who had married someone else while in prison (I can't comprehend how a woman's self-esteem would be so low as to believe the only man she could catch is a convicted wife-killer) -- anyway, he got out on parole, and it was just a few weeks before he was back in again because of threats against his new wife which made her fear for her life.

 

[Abigail]

&#8220;Wife murder almost always comes as an escalation of behavior that starts with psychological abuse and control.&#8221;

&#8226; The husband who eventually kills probably used manipulation, fear, and threats of violence to control his wife.

&#8226; A husband who abuses alcohol or drugs is more likely to murder

&#8226; &#8220;Intense controlling behavior. This is a man who thinks he owns his wife and is both obsessed with and, deep down, dependent on her. He's jealous and possessive. He may attempt to limit his wife's support system and/or spy on her friends and family.&#8221;

&#8226; The husband who kills demonstrates a lack of empathy and compassion, and odd behavior and inappropriate emotions may be noted.

&#8226; The husband who kills fails to take responsibility for his actions and "blames the victim."

&#8226; The husband who kills tends to be a bit of a loose cannon &#8211;&#8220;often have a violent temper and react physically to stress and frustration. &#8220;

&#8226; About half of women murdered by their husbands &#8220;minimized the risks posed and saw their partner as harassing and annoying, but not dangerous.&#8221;

&#8226; The most dangerous time for a battered wife is when she tries to leave.


http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-equation/201105/wife-killers-part-1-battered-death

 

[zwiebel]

I'm remembering the DA's comment about Jennifer consulting a divorce attorney. That would have been a ker-ching! moment for investigators, even if they hadn't had one before.