NY - Karina Vetrano, 30, found murdered, Queens, 2 Aug 2016 #2

[webweaved]

I have to say as someone who has lost a child, the 'stages of grief' theory is just that. A theory. And I see no bargaining with the killer. Bereavement isn't a process of cycles, and even if this perp is caught these parents will bear the burden of grief for the rest of their lives. I have no idea what's inside their heads about police or the perp or why there are reports of closing in for an arrest. What I can say is that what anyone sees or hears in a news byte or a claim by a reporter, or even in an interview with the parents, is a blip on the screen of the experience of the Vetrano family.

There is no moving from one emotion/stage to another as if to have completed a series of tasks and having moved on to a new set. This is very early into their experience and they haven't even begun to fully feel the range of emotions and cognition/processing struggles and even physical symptoms that will more and more manifest as time passes. This is just the beginning, and these poor people are still deeply shocked. I'm seven months out from losing my son and I still wake up at times with my heart pounding, thinking the police will be at more door any minute to notify me and I have to stop my child's death before they do. This is the crazy-making impact of profound grief and wrenching trauma. I still stop in the middle of the grocery store over the yogurt or the meat counter and think, "What? My child is dead? That makes no sense." And I still have waves of being so distraught that I feel as if my head will explode. This type of grief is extremely dynamic, often like an ambush when you least expect it, and definitely like a revolving door you cannot seem to exit while simultaneously riding a typhoon on a skateboard. The trauma is so severe that you don't even recognize your surroundings at times, and have to wind your way back to your physical reality. This type of disorientation/re-entering the atmosphere sensation can happen full circle in a second or two. Imagine being rocketed from a sense of being firmly planted on the ground, to outer space, and back to your living room in that span of time. Add to that the additionally traumatic experience of this father having found his murdered daughter and viewed what was done to her in death by this monster that ended her life.

And yes, at some point you are coming and going from work, getting the groceries bought and the lawn mowed, etc. But that isn't a 'getting better'...it's just life hauling you forward while the afore-mentioned experiences are happening at the same time.

I say this to offer a lens into what the survivors are in for and to perhaps mitigate the impression that they are moving through or mastering stages. What they are doing is trying to navigate and find some equilibrium in a personal world that has been shattered. I look to the facts as I understand them according to known investigative information, and I simply feel compassion for the Vetranos, with no judgement or definition of their process. I don't say this to be critical at all; I say it because 'grief culture' is sending messages that don't help the bereaved or those who genuinely want to understand and/or comfort them.

FWIW: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/megan-devine/stages-of-grief_b_4414077.html

In the meantime, I hope they catch this killer soon because another woman is likely soon going to be victimized.

And I wish Karina's parents drops of comfort and moments of peace as they live lives that are forever altered and absent of their daughter's lovely and vibrant presence.

JMO

Jilly Literally I can't even imagine the pain. You're so brave. I am sorry for your loss. Big hug. :grouphug:

 

[deedee21]

Another article.


Karina Vetrano's parents indicate they are aware of person of interest in jogger's slaying
http://via.pix11.com/2Jn5B

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I hope the parents didnt do this press conference because the cops are at a deadend. Scary thought.

 

[madamx]

but if the person was convicted the first time then he would of gone to prison and his DNA would of been on file. I believe this person if he has done it before has not been caught because his DNA would of matched an name no?

Seen a number of cases in which those convicted of their first rape and who don't murder their victim, do murder their next victim so as not to be identified because they do not want to be sent back to prison. Could this apply here?

 

[deedee21]

To add, IMO the violence was not just to subdue in order to get sex; the violence and brutality are all part of the "sex" - pervertedly intertwined. Sadly, I don't think there could be any reasoning with him once the attack started.

This is true. Its not unusual for women to be raped and murdered. Predators dont care about human life.

 

[deedee21]

The entire crime has made me sick. I wish I could post how I really feel but it's just too graphic. I'll just say I wish I was armed and could catch up with the sobs out there that are committing such acts, preferably before they commit another. I've never really jogged alone for this very reason. I usually have someone with me which means I cannot do it so often.

These SOB should be put in the belly of a plane and dropped in the middle of an ocean.

 

[Kaley Smith]

Here is a very informative site regarding serial killers. Sad to say, many have had a military
background so they are very strong. See https://serialkillersvictimschoosing.wikispaces.com/

To all joggers and walkers, I would suggest stay away from isolated areas and do not be predictable.
Many of the victims had a routine as to the time and routes they ran.

 

[madamx]

oh iam with you 100% I would be doing the same thing.. how could you Not want to Emasculate a cowardly man that has to jump out of the woods to rape and kill your daughter and then go home and hide...that screams big cowardly loser to me... I support her mom and everything she is saying and feeling.. and like she says No I would not forgive him... I would not either.

I don't.

I believe she may be attempting to psychologically castrate the monster and publicly emasculate him.

Father has a different approach.

 

[sunkissed748]

oh iam with you 100% I would be doing the same thing.. how could you Not want to Emasculate a cowardly man that has to jump out of the woods to rape and kill your daughter and then go home and hide...that screams big cowardly loser to me... I support her mom and everything she is saying and feeling.. and like she says No I would not forgive him... I would not either.

I totally agree w/ your sentiments. Had to take the bus to Howard Beach/Ozone Park yesterday. The police vans are still on the block where Karina entered the marsh run path. Every light telephone pole etc., had the Reward Flyers w/ this beautiful angel's face front & center. Seeing them everywhere was surreal. The white ribbons were also very visible. Actually cried passing the exact block where this monstrous act was committed. Just wanted to pass this on. RIP Karina

 

[BelleIsle]

I have to say as someone who has lost a child, the 'stages of grief' theory is just that. A theory. And I see no bargaining with the killer. Bereavement isn't a process of cycles, and even if this perp is caught these parents will bear the burden of grief for the rest of their lives. I have no idea what's inside their heads about police or the perp or why there are reports of closing in for an arrest. What I can say is that what anyone sees or hears in a news byte or a claim by a reporter, or even in an interview with the parents, is a blip on the screen of the experience of the Vetrano family.

There is no moving from one emotion/stage to another as if to have completed a series of tasks and having moved on to a new set. This is very early into their experience and they haven't even begun to fully feel the range of emotions and cognition/processing struggles and even physical symptoms that will more and more manifest as time passes. This is just the beginning, and these poor people are still deeply shocked. I'm seven months out from losing my son and I still wake up at times with my heart pounding, thinking the police will be at more door any minute to notify me and I have to stop my child's death before they do. This is the crazy-making impact of profound grief and wrenching trauma. I still stop in the middle of the grocery store over the yogurt or the meat counter and think, "What? My child is dead? That makes no sense." And I still have waves of being so distraught that I feel as if my head will explode. This type of grief is extremely dynamic, often like an ambush when you least expect it, and definitely like a revolving door you cannot seem to exit while simultaneously riding a typhoon on a skateboard. The trauma is so severe that you don't even recognize your surroundings at times, and have to wind your way back to your physical reality. This type of disorientation/re-entering the atmosphere sensation can happen full circle in a second or two. Imagine being rocketed from a sense of being firmly planted on the ground, to outer space, and back to your living room in that span of time. Add to that the additionally traumatic experience of this father having found his murdered daughter and viewed what was done to her in death by this monster that ended her life.

And yes, at some point you are coming and going from work, getting the groceries bought and the lawn mowed, etc. But that isn't a 'getting better'...it's just life hauling you forward while the afore-mentioned experiences are happening at the same time.

I say this to offer a lens into what the survivors are in for and to perhaps mitigate the impression that they are moving through or mastering stages. What they are doing is trying to navigate and find some equilibrium in a personal world that has been shattered. I look to the facts as I understand them according to known investigative information, and I simply feel compassion for the Vetranos, with no judgement or definition of their process. I don't say this to be critical at all; I say it because 'grief culture' is sending messages that don't help the bereaved or those who genuinely want to understand and/or comfort them.

FWIW: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/megan-devine/stages-of-grief_b_4414077.html

In the meantime, I hope they catch this killer soon because another woman is likely soon going to be victimized.

And I wish Karina's parents drops of comfort and moments of peace as they live lives that are forever altered and absent of their daughter's lovely and vibrant presence.

JMO

I am so very, very sorry for your loss. At seven months out you are still in the midst of finding your bearings, and your new "normal", whatever that means. It has been almost six years for me and I can relate to the stages of grief, but I do find that because of the lingering effects of PTSD they do come in a mix, and at times when you least expect them. I did quite a bit of bargaining with God, just for my own sanity. I did the anger, and it still comes and goes...and the sorrow is always only a thought away. I am not to the acceptance stage yet, and I can't say that I ever will be (survivor's guilt is very real). I know that not everyone relates to the stages of grief, but for some of us it helps to gives a direction to what we are feeling, and to know that these emotions are completely normal under the circumstances...in whatever order they appear. I am sending so much love your way, and to your son and his energy that you will carry with you always.

I came to this thread hoping for some sort of an optimistic update, hopefully by the end of the week we will have that.

 

[Inthedetails]

I have to say as someone who has lost a child, the 'stages of grief' theory is just that. A theory. And I see no bargaining with the killer. Bereavement isn't a process of cycles, and even if this perp is caught these parents will bear the burden of grief for the rest of their lives. I have no idea what's inside their heads about police or the perp or why there are reports of closing in for an arrest. What I can say is that what anyone sees or hears in a news byte or a claim by a reporter, or even in an interview with the parents, is a blip on the screen of the experience of the Vetrano family.

There is no moving from one emotion/stage to another as if to have completed a series of tasks and having moved on to a new set. This is very early into their experience and they haven't even begun to fully feel the range of emotions and cognition/processing struggles and even physical symptoms that will more and more manifest as time passes. This is just the beginning, and these poor people are still deeply shocked. I'm seven months out from losing my son and I still wake up at times with my heart pounding, thinking the police will be at more door any minute to notify me and I have to stop my child's death before they do. This is the crazy-making impact of profound grief and wrenching trauma. I still stop in the middle of the grocery store over the yogurt or the meat counter and think, "What? My child is dead? That makes no sense." And I still have waves of being so distraught that I feel as if my head will explode. This type of grief is extremely dynamic, often like an ambush when you least expect it, and definitely like a revolving door you cannot seem to exit while simultaneously riding a typhoon on a skateboard. The trauma is so severe that you don't even recognize your surroundings at times, and have to wind your way back to your physical reality. This type of disorientation/re-entering the atmosphere sensation can happen full circle in a second or two. Imagine being rocketed from a sense of being firmly planted on the ground, to outer space, and back to your living room in that span of time. Add to that the additionally traumatic experience of this father having found his murdered daughter and viewed what was done to her in death by this monster that ended her life.

And yes, at some point you are coming and going from work, getting the groceries bought and the lawn mowed, etc. But that isn't a 'getting better'...it's just life hauling you forward while the afore-mentioned experiences are happening at the same time.

I say this to offer a lens into what the survivors are in for and to perhaps mitigate the impression that they are moving through or mastering stages. What they are doing is trying to navigate and find some equilibrium in a personal world that has been shattered. I look to the facts as I understand them according to known investigative information, and I simply feel compassion for the Vetranos, with no judgement or definition of their process. I don't say this to be critical at all; I say it because 'grief culture' is sending messages that don't help the bereaved or those who genuinely want to understand and/or comfort them.

FWIW: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/megan-devine/stages-of-grief_b_4414077.html

In the meantime, I hope they catch this killer soon because another woman is likely soon going to be victimized.

And I wish Karina's parents drops of comfort and moments of peace as they live lives that are forever altered and absent of their daughter's lovely and vibrant presence.

JMO

I am so sorry for your loss, jillycat.

And I want to thank you for the link to the Huffington Post article. How I wish I had read that when I suffered a loss (not a child) and felt so ALONE in my grief, as if I didn't deserve to feel the heaviness I felt for so long (and that only made the heaviness worse). Grief is an amazingly complex experience, and I hope to somehow grow from it and offer understanding to someone else experiencing it. You've set the example of that by sharing your story.

We're here. I don't know why we're the ones here, but we are...and perhaps the only lesson to be learned from all this is to be kind.

Thank you, again.

 

[OldSteve]

but if the person was convicted the first time then he would of gone to prison and his DNA would of been on file. I believe this person if he has done it before has not been caught because his DNA would of matched an name no?

Good point - though there is a backlog of entering DNA into the system...

 

[OldSteve]

Here is a very informative site regarding serial killers. Sad to say, many have had a military
background so they are very strong. See https://serialkillersvictimschoosing.wikispaces.com/

To all joggers and walkers, I would suggest stay away from isolated areas and do not be predictable.
Many of the victims had a routine as to the time and routes they ran.

Speaking of predictability - we usually run back over the same trail as we went out on, giving a perp in weeds time to think about an attack. Wonder if both Karina and Vanessa were attacked on their return... A return attack would indicate something more spontaneous; whereas, an attack on her run out might show be that of a stalker...

 

[Periwinkl3]

Speaking of predictability - we usually run back over the same trail as we went out on, giving a perp in weeds time to think about an attack. Wonder if both Karina and Vanessa were attacked on their return... A return attack would indicate something more spontaneous; whereas, an attack on her run out might show be that of a stalker...

I would hope that LE looked at anyone who had a sight line, from the second floor and higher of any house or building, from the path Karina usually took from her home all the way into the weeds.

 

[mocity]

I totally agree w/ your sentiments. Had to take the bus to Howard Beach/Ozone Park yesterday. The police vans are still on the block where Karina entered the marsh run path. Every light telephone pole etc., had the Reward Flyers w/ this beautiful angel's face front & center. Seeing them everywhere was surreal. The white ribbons were also very visible. Actually cried passing the exact block where this monstrous act was committed. Just wanted to pass this on. RIP Karina

I was wondering where she typically would enter. Close to 84th or closer to where they found her?

 

[Razz]

I totally agree w/ your sentiments. Had to take the bus to Howard Beach/Ozone Park yesterday. The police vans are still on the block where Karina entered the marsh run path. Every light telephone pole etc., had the Reward Flyers w/ this beautiful angel's face front & center. Seeing them everywhere was surreal. The white ribbons were also very visible. Actually cried passing the exact block where this monstrous act was committed. Just wanted to pass this on. RIP Karina

Please excuse me if I'm being insensitive, but why would there still be police vans in the neighborhood? A car maybe
but vans?

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[Lauranyc83]

Please excuse me if I'm being insensitive, but why would there still be police vans in the neighborhood? A car maybe
but vans?

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There's more than just vans, there's aviation, emergency response trucks, patrol cars etc. There's a killer on the loose. They are still investigating.

This was at the entrance to the bike path at 78th street.

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[madamx]

First off if this should not be on this thread please delete and I am sorry if I am breaking any rules its not my intentions. I came across this post on a thread here called the Rumor Mill and I just found this interesting.

I was wondering if anyone has found out where Karina worked recently? Its mentioned she worked at Vetro but their FB said she worked there is 2015. Just wondering if she had anything to do with the Place Lennys Clam Bar that is mentioned in the post below.



Quote Originally Posted by LindsayLohan6 View Post

I doubt it's related but I'm sure 4 is thinking of the two guys from Howard Beach, one with big ears and the other scruffy guy who the police were going around showing photos of in the AC case. They even went to Lenny's Clam Bar looking for clues. Always felt there was a connection between Howard Beach and the LISK case. It's vlose to the dump site of Eve Brown and the others in thst graveyard. Wonder if LE knows who the guys are, did they have pictures or sketches? Are clams or seafood the connection between Gilgo, Howard Beach and Penn Station? a Raw Bar?
The murdered woman Karina Vetrano 's home adress is located ca 100meter (0.06 miles) vest of Lenny's Clam Bar .

 

[Lauranyc83]

First off if this should not be on this thread please delete and I am sorry if I am breaking any rules its not my intentions. I came across this post on a thread here called the Rumor Mill and I just found this interesting.

I was wondering if anyone has found out where Karina worked recently? Its mentioned she worked at Vetro but their FB said she worked there is 2015. Just wondering if she had anything to do with the Place Lennys Clam Bar that is mentioned in the post below.



Quote Originally Posted by LindsayLohan6 View Post

I doubt it's related but I'm sure 4 is thinking of the two guys from Howard Beach, one with big ears and the other scruffy guy who the police were going around showing photos of in the AC case. They even went to Lenny's Clam Bar looking for clues. Always felt there was a connection between Howard Beach and the LISK case. It's vlose to the dump site of Eve Brown and the others in thst graveyard. Wonder if LE knows who the guys are, did they have pictures or sketches? Are clams or seafood the connection between Gilgo, Howard Beach and Penn Station? a Raw Bar?
The murdered woman Karina Vetrano 's home adress is located ca 100meter (0.06 miles) vest of Lenny's Clam Bar .

I belive she worked at Central Lounge in Astoria.

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[Lauranyc83]

<mod snip>

She also mentions how the planes flying to JFK are so low you can almost see into the windows. These fly over the park. I also thought of this before that it would be so loud her screams would be silenced by the planes. They fly over almost every 3 mins. Now that she brings up that they are so low (which they are) I wonder how many people looked out their window of the plane as it was landing and possibly saw a man running away and didn't think anything of it. Sigh.

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[Lauranyc83]

In regards to my last post about the planes. This actually popped up today in my Timehop. This was taken at my brother's in-laws house last year. They live right across the marsh from Spring Creek in Lindenwood. They get lower and lower as they fly over the part of Spring Creek KV was found.

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