NY - Karina Vetrano, 30, found murdered, Queens, 2 Aug 2016 #4

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #661
How did she get blades of grass clutched in her hands if she was unconscious?
Common sense implies she was grabbing at the tall grasses as she was being dragged; she wasn't unconscious, maybe a bit stunned. Criminals often lie to try and somehow make their crimes seem less brutal than reality.

Always go with the physical evidence and not the murderer's version of events.
 
  • #662
This is crazy... and I don't believe this- but what if it was the father. It's not even my opinion, because I don't believe that. But. But. It's not. But

RSBM

So, possibly CL's father did this ?
After reading and contributing a bit on WS -- truth is far stranger than fiction.
But I doubt it. Think le has the right man.

But, thanks to old pops -- we keep learning more about CL. You'd think he'd shut up since his son is in serious trouble. It's almost as if he wants to make sure this is pinned on his kid.

Is that what you meant ?


Thinking out loud and mean no disrespect to innocent parties.
But it's strange how the elder Lewis is offering information.
:moo:
 
  • #663
I'm sorry. He is an educated man who is an ex principal of a NYC school. He can't be that blind. This was all over the news non stop. Flyers up on poles. Front page covers of news papers. He knew.

Love is blind. Completely blind. For example, ever see a woman in love with a guy who's a real jerk, cheats on her, steals from her? "Oh he really loves me, I know it!" "He wouldn't do anything to hurt me!" And then people roll their eyes at how blind, deaf and dumb they are.

Well take that denial and multiply it because the love a parent has for their offspring throws most parents into denial. Even if the truth is staring them in the face, even if the parent is educated and otherwise intelligent. DENIAL removes all objectivity. I saw it myself with someone -- they think their son was "railroaded" and didn't actually murder their estranged wife...even after this perfect innocent son took a 2nd degree murder plea so they didn't spend life in prison. Still in denial about it; still insists the state railroaded the son. And this guy is highly intelligent with a very responsible top level management job.
 
  • #664
This is crazy... and I don't believe this- but what if it was the father. It's not even my opinion, because I don't believe that. But. But. It's not. But
DNA is unique to the individual. Except for identical twins who have the same DNA profile. Father and son do not have the same DNA. Scientifically impossible. There is no other perp except for the 20 yr old whose DNA was found on the victim and on her phone. Plus, he confessed to killing her. Slam dunk.
 
  • #665
"Chanel Lewis voluntarily gave police a DNA sample when he appeared on their radar in the murder of Karina Vetrano. Now new details surrounding his past could get that DNA sample thrown out."

"Retired NYPD Sergeant Joseph Giacolone says there could be potential issues in court with that voluntary DNA sample if it turns out Lewis has a mental health problem.

"He is of age, but in order to give something, it has to be be done voluntarily, intelligently and knowingly," says Giacolone.

Giacolone says the defense will more than likely want that DNA profile thrown out, but says there is also the confession, which is tough to ignore."

http://via.pix11.com/T4ERv

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

Have been thinking along these lines too. But, there may not be "mental health issues ", but more like there is some type of developmental delay, a cognitive issue ? IDK, jmo But I think that will be part of his defense lawyers' strategy. jmo
 
  • #666
I don't know.. but something is not right.. Part of me thinks this guy might be a serial killer because they are usually geeky odd looking guys that no one thinks would do it.. BUT then the other part of me thinks that there is just something wrong with him and he is being framed... Someone who did commit a murder would they give out their DNA so quickly?? His actions and body language when the cops are taking him to the car in cuffs he looks confused not trying to hide but like trying to understand what is happening.. Could the cops just have framed him?? Because its been 6 months and the Vetranos just wont give up and they have all that pressure and the Cops don't want to look bad ??.. I don't know I go back and forth.. I just don't know..something just seems odd... and I thought it was Odd he had a bullet proof vest.. I don't recall anyone when they get arrested get to wear a bullet proof vest?

I grabbed this quote from another site explaining a bit about the school he went to... I don't know if anyone else has posted this..
The man, Richard Lewis, 70, displayed a diploma showing that Chanel graduated last year from the private Martin De Porres HS in Rockaway Park, whose student body comprises “children experiencing emotional and behavioral problems,” according to its site.



But....

<snip>

Richard Lewis, the suspect's father denies that his son has any mental health issues.

"I don't know of it, says Lewis in regards to his son having been treated for any issues. "Only the doctors could tell you."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
  • #667
"Just one day after Karina Vetrano's body was found, Richard admitted to PIX11 that he took his son to the hospital for numerous cuts and scratches that he saw on his sons' arms.

He says he does not see a coincidence into the timing of the two incidents."

Denial--it's not just a river in Egypt :facepalm:

It must have been terribly bad scratches to take him to the hospital.
 
  • #668
I just don't think that for a second the Dad did it. CL knows detailed information. I think the dad is literally trying to grasp anything that could possibly make sense. In the puddle article shared earlier: "Lewis said that as he got near Vetrano, he yanked off his ear buds and attacked her, the source noted." That would be something the killer would know since her ear buds were thrown as well as her phone. They were also torn in two, correct? It could prove he was in rage mode. She was found by the puddle where he was getting ready for the attack. I'm sure she slowed down a bit to avoid getting in the puddle making it easier to punch her. I wonder if his clothes will show any kind of mud/dirt from that area? Or any shoes? I know it's been 6 months, but it was summer then so he could of been wearing different shoes.

Also - "Police said her assailant tried to complete a sex act but apparently didn’t." I'm thinking Karina was fighting pretty hard and/or he really didn't have any sexual experience being 20 and "not ready" for girlfriends as his sister stated.
 
  • #669
IMO we're missing something about what his summer days were like after graduating with a diploma from that particular HS, which we have now learned is designated for Emotionally Disturbed students.

I do not believe he would just be sent off on his own to discover his own path with no program/s in place for him - either vocational training, paid or unpaid internship (low level in his case due to, most likely, his lack of social skills, inability to cope and visible imo emotional probs), a very structured work program, OR another program to continue to develop life skills or a program to develop employment skills.

He is labelled Emotionally Disturbed and as he approached puberty and beyond, may have learned to mask some of it or simply became more ED. IMO, it not unusual in a highly structured good program to see improvement within the classroom setting, but that does not mean it necessarily carries through outside the highly structured and supportive school setting, though, of course, that would be the goal. In one of the videos I viewed, a reporter stated that a neighbor (believe female, did not want to be identified, nor spoke or shown on camera) described CL to her as a monster who terrorized some on the block/in the neighborhood. Nothing more than that one sentence. No details.

He was supposed to be somewhere else during the day, IMO, at least part of it. Without the intensive structure, did he attend whatever program or class that was most likely in place?

What about therapy, counseling? I'm sure there was a transition into something post-graduation.

I also noticed his diploma is dated August 14, 2016 (12 days after the murder). I cannot find anything to confirm whether the HS has a summer program (it may), and not positive, but don't think it's yearlong school. Did he have to complete or retake a course or two (July - August) in order to receive his diploma?

Had he been placed in a "job" or an unpaid internship, there might have been even more females murdered. I'd like to know what program he was placed in after graduation, and whether he attended such a program from graduation to arrest.

Also, curious as to thoughts about the mid-August date on diploma since school term ends late June.





I am going to try to answer your questions. to the best of my ability...
I taught for 15 years at a school very much like Martin De Porres hs. Mine was "the worst of the worst" " kids who no one else will take", "worst of HS best of prison" type of ED residential school in NY. things like behavior mod, therapy, and crisis intervention were standard. i know administrators, teachers, aides etc who work at De Porres now, i am in the process of reaching out for more details. he may have started with us.

here is what i can answer....

he probably received no care after graduating,.
unfortunately they are quite often just released after graduation, or aging out. (21yrs & 364 days) no transition, no programs, no internships, no therapy, nothing. BACK TO THE SAME ENVIRONMENT that they started in, even if it is what was toxic.
no support no help. some manage to qualify for other programs but that is often with parental support, determination and early pre planning. Excellent programs get more kids into these older or specialized job training programs, usually with a child who wants to really change their life. A lot of them just want to go home and the parent gives in for many reasons(guilt fear,weakness, love? etc). yes there often is better behavior in the classroom, due to school structure and teacher skills, but some times (my own experience) it just feels like you are simply buying time with some of them. Waiting until they go home to deal, murder, rape or something equally atrocious, or until you see them dead, on the news, killed in gang fights. Or until they go to jail. the stories are horrific, some never even make it to a graduation. i have seen psychopaths and sociopaths who were so disturbed you could see it in their eyes, as well as children who had simply witnessed the unbelievable.

Also most of these schools run a 12 month program, keeping the child for the summer to earn credits they need or get ahead. we had graduation in June but also awarded diplomas in august and january.


before you ask...
there are the students who make it all worthwhile, the few that you reach every year. it was not the kids who burned me out, but our administration. i no longer teach.
my typing on a pad is atrocious i apologize.
this is all my own experience or opinion.
 
  • #670
I don't know.. but something is not right.. Part of me thinks this guy might be a serial killer because they are usually geeky odd looking guys that no one thinks would do it.. BUT then the other part of me thinks that there is just something wrong with him and he is being framed... Someone who did commit a murder would they give out their DNA so quickly?? His actions and body language when the cops are taking him to the car in cuffs he looks confused not trying to hide but like trying to understand what is happening.. Could the cops just have framed him?? Because its been 6 months and the Vetranos just wont give up and they have all that pressure and the Cops don't want to look bad ??.. I don't know I go back and forth.. I just don't know..something just seems odd... and I thought it was Odd he had a bullet proof vest.. I don't recall anyone when they get arrested get to wear a bullet proof vest?

I grabbed this quote from another site explaining a bit about the school he went to... I don't know if anyone else has posted this..
The man, Richard Lewis, 70, displayed a diploma showing that Chanel graduated last year from the private Martin De Porres HS in Rockaway Park, whose student body comprises &#8220;children experiencing emotional and behavioral problems,&#8221; according to its site.

Chanel had bad scratches all over his arms and face and an injury to his hand. Did the cops do that to him in order to frame him, on the day of the crime?
 
  • #671
RSBM

So, possibly CL's father did this ?
After reading and contributing a bit on WS -- truth is far stranger than fiction.
But I doubt it. Think le has the right man.

But, thanks to old pops -- we keep learning more about CL. You'd think he'd shut up since his son is in serious trouble. It's almost as if he wants to make sure this is pinned on his kid.

Is that what you meant ?


Thinking out loud and mean no disrespect to innocent parties.
But it's strange how the elder Lewis is offering information.
:moo:
In my opinion, the father is attempting to cover up his sons crime. Pretend injuries sustained was a result of being mugged. BS. Injuries sustained occured because his son attacked and killed a woman. Dad has to also PRETEND he never heard of Karina or this case. The latest is " cops are targeting his son because hes black". We have an idea of what this trial is going to turn into. Dont feel sorry for this famiy.
 
  • #672
Cognitive issues? His father waved his diploma around. Hows his memory? He remembered details of his crime. Does he know right from wrong? Yes.

There are alot of men in prison for commiting the same crime. Are they considered normal? No. Do they have anger issues? Yes. No free passes.
 
  • #673
This is crazy... and I don't believe this- but what if it was the father. It's not even my opinion, because I don't believe that. But. But. It's not. But

Why even put that out there? No different than people who were suspicious of Katrina's poor father.
 
  • #674
The impression I have is that she was obviously raped "x2" in a particularly heinous manner as reported early on, but as the investigation moved forward LE decided to put the lid on those details (for any number of reasons.) But I agree, there's never been a question as to the sexual nature of the attack.
My impression is she was sexually assaulted and the predator did not ejaculate.
 
  • #675
Why even put that out there? No different than people who were suspicious of Katrina's poor father.

Passing thought. Stranger things have and will happen. But I do understand what you are saying- why for no reason fan flames in an already painful situation. Still trying to understand TOS. It was a legitimate, outlandish, but credible possibility in my mind.
 
  • #676
I have no words. Wow! I am so glad this man behind bars. I feel that he would have continued to attack women had he not been caught.
Hes in the big house with the big boys. I hope he is scared shitz.
 
  • #677
DNA is unique to the individual. Except for identical twins who have the same DNA profile. Father and son do not have the same DNA. Scientifically impossible. There is no other perp except for the 20 yr old whose DNA was found on the victim and on her phone. Plus, he confessed to killing her. Slam dunk.

Thank you. That clears that up. My mistake!!
 
  • #678
Did the Diploma say "Diploma" or "Certificate"? In New York, there is an option for a Certificate related to vocational training called CDOS - certificate of developmental & occupational studies. It's a new version of what was called an "IEP Diploma" which was given to 21 year olds to say, 'hey you've completed your schooling" but it did not lead to college.

I think I saw that CL's said Diploma. If that's true, then he would have had to complete a specific number of credits and pass 5 Regents exams. If he had an IEP, he could graduate with low-pass grades, a 'safety net' to pass the exams, which are offered in January, June and August. He may have needed an exam or two or three. Since he could have stayed to age 21, this makes me speculate he passed his exams.

New York State Education Department has all of these regulations, many passed just this past school year (regarding low pass safety net. I do not know CL or if he had an IEP or anything about him. Just opining about how the NY education system works. NOt sure if his school was exempt from these regulations. But even kids with 'alternate assessment' do not earn Diplomas.


I am going to try to answer your questions. to the best of my ability...
I taught for 15 years at a school very much like Martin De Porres hs. Mine was "the worst of the worst" " kids who no one else will take", "worst of HS best of prison" type of ED residential school in NY. things like behavior mod, therapy, and crisis intervention were standard. i know administrators, teachers, aides etc who work at De Porres now, i am in the process of reaching out for more details. he may have started with us.

here is what i can answer....

he probably received no care after graduating,.
unfortunately they are quite often just released after graduation, or aging out. (21yrs & 364 days) no transition, no programs, no internships, no therapy, nothing. BACK TO THE SAME ENVIRONMENT that they started in, even if it is what was toxic.
no support no help. some manage to qualify for other programs but that is often with parental support, determination and early pre planning. Excellent programs get more kids into these older or specialized job training programs, usually with a child who wants to really change their life. A lot of them just want to go home and the parent gives in for many reasons(guilt fear,weakness, love? etc). yes there often is better behavior in the classroom, due to school structure and teacher skills, but some times (my own experience) it just feels like you are simply buying time with some of them. Waiting until they go home to deal, murder, rape or something equally atrocious, or until you see them dead, on the news, killed in gang fights. Or until they go to jail. the stories are horrific, some never even make it to a graduation. i have seen psychopaths and sociopaths who were so disturbed you could see it in their eyes, as well as children who had simply witnessed the unbelievable.

Also most of these schools run a 12 month program, keeping the child for the summer to earn credits they need or get ahead. we had graduation in June but also awarded diplomas in august and january.


this is all my own experience or opinion.
 
  • #679
Thinking about the poor family of Karinas'.

I can get even more disgusted (than I already am) by how this trial will play out... and I can choose to figuratively walk away. Not read anymore about the crime , or watch any updates ; etc.

But her family and friends and other loved ones. They still have to sit through the trial and see the disgusting perp.
Day after day.
Possibly have to hear her trashed by the defense. Not sure what the def. lawyer could come up with in this case; but I've seen victims trashed before in other cases.

To the Vetrano family I extend my utmost condolences. I'm so sorry your beautiful daughter was taken from you. She had every right to live her life !
 
  • #680
I'm sorry. He is an educated man who is an ex principal of a NYC school. He can't be that blind. This was all over the news non stop. Flyers up on poles. Front page covers of news papers. He knew.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

Has it been verified the father was a principal or did this info come from reporters copy/paste quoting him?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
121
Guests online
1,581
Total visitors
1,702

Forum statistics

Threads
632,315
Messages
18,624,591
Members
243,082
Latest member
Delmajesty
Back
Top