NY NY - Leslie, 29, Julie, 6, & Timothy Guthrie, 3, drove away from home, Katonah, 6 Feb 1977

[Skigirl]

If you take a left from King Street (102) onto Route 22 to head towards IBM...almost immediately there is a small body of water on the right that is visible from the road. It was there in the late 70's and from what I remember there was no fence at the time. The rest of the water is not seen with the trees, then or now. I hope they get the magnetic equipment because I've always thought of Pleasantville Cove as it is so close to the road on the chance she came from Mt. Kisco.

To me, it doesn't make sense that she would go to White Plains and then come back to Armonk and IBM in a snowstorm. 684 would have been plowed before those backroads, at least at the time. There is a large swath of 684 that is right up against water by Jay Street. She would've had to go north to 35 to get get on 684 and come south, but 684 would be the most direct for IBM. But I don't recall if 35 to 684 was feasible then.

Do we know for sure that she was supposed to pick up her mom at work? How did her mom get home? Here's an early article that doesn't mention it (doesn't mean that she was supposed to pick up her mom, but the way it's written, it sounds like her mother was waiting at home for her).

 

[VaYank5150]

Do we know for sure that she was supposed to pick up her mom at work? How did her mom get home? Here's an early article that doesn't mention it (doesn't mean that she was supposed to pick up her mom, but the way it's written, it sounds like her mother was waiting at home for her).

Skigirl....I do NOT know for sure about this part. The only reference I found which I based my hypothesis on is located here

 

[Skigirl]

Skigirl....I do NOT know for sure about this part. The only reference I found which I based my hypothesis on is located here

That's interesting. There's one post from Jan 11 in those comments that seems to have some details I'd never heard and mentions that her mother lived in Silver Lake, White Plains, which is, I believe, actually in Harrison (I think I posted about this at length previously, but hamlets and towns are very confusing in that part of NY and people often consider themselves as living in one town, even when it's legally part of another town or hamlet; I also had tracked her mother to an apartment complex in Harrison, but I don't know for sure that that's where she lived at the time).

The location of her mother's home in Harrison, if it was in Harrison (versus White Plains), wouldn't make a difference with regard to potential locations for the car if Leslie was going straight from Katonah to IBM, but if Leslie was planning to stop at her mom's place first, it would potentially make some driving routes more probable than others.

If she picked the kids up at 1:30ish and her mom was supposed to leave work at 5:00, Leslie would have had to have had plans to go someplace in between, because it wouldn't take more than an hour (if that) to get from Katonah to IBM, even on state/back roads, even in bad weather. Maybe she wanted to pick up groceries specifically for the kids, which would open up a whole other set of possibilities, or take them to a matinee at the movie theater, or bowling. There has always been a lot of shopping in White Plains, but with $10 in her pocket and ill-fitting boots, I wonder if she really would have wanted to visit Macy's (or some other store) for fun, with two kids in tow, and I don't know how much movie tickets cost at the time, but I would imagine it would be at least $4 for the three of them, leaving her six dollars if they caught a movie. All of which suggests to me that she planned to go to her mother's apartment before picking her mother up at work (if she even was planning to pick her mother up at work). I just don't know what to make of some of these details.

I wish I could have a copy of the police file. Some of the ambiguities are due to conflicting reports in the press.

 

[VaYank5150]

This is from my telephone conversation with Detective Haynes from a year or so ago.

"Unfortunately, there is no known route of travel for Leslie on the day she and her children disappeared. However, like me he thinks it unlikely that she used I-684 as had she had an accident in the middle of the day, it is unlikely that no one saw it happen, or leave evidence on the newly constructed interstate. He admitted that she was supposed to pick up her Mother from IBM in Armonk that day, and did not arrive. Detective Haynes also mentioned that she had relatives in Ohio, who she may have attempted to visit, but there is no way to confirm this."

Granted, it is entirely possible that I misunderstood him and I had nothing to give him about Harrison. I cannot locate an email address for him, so perhaps the best idea is to call again, especially knowing that AWP was there recently?

 

[Skigirl]

This is from my telephone conversation with Detective Haynes from a year or so ago.

"Unfortunately, there is no known route of travel for Leslie on the day she and her children disappeared. However, like me he thinks it unlikely that she used I-684 as had she had an accident in the middle of the day, it is unlikely that no one saw it happen, or leave evidence on the newly constructed interstate. He admitted that she was supposed to pick up her Mother from IBM in Armonk that day, and did not arrive. Detective Haynes also mentioned that she had relatives in Ohio, who she may have attempted to visit, but there is no way to confirm this."

Granted, it is entirely possible that I misunderstood him and I had nothing to give him about Harrison. I cannot locate an email address for him, so perhaps the best idea is to call again, especially knowing that AWP was there recently?

If the detective told you that, it is almost certainly true... though if you have the courage to call him, there are SO MANY things to ask (Like: What was her mother's home address? What time was her mother supposed to get off of work?) We could crowdsource a list!

 

[Skigirl]

If the detective told you that, it is almost certainly true... though if you have the courage to call him, there are SO MANY things to ask (Like: What was her mother's home address? What time was her mother supposed to get off of work?) We could crowdsource a list!

Also, was the car white with a green roof, or vice-versa (I've seen both), was the roof vinyl, or painted? Two door or four door? Is it true that she only had $10? Did her sister live in Katonah at the time (I found an address for her at one point and there is a pond on her road)?

 

[VaYank5150]

Everything I have read states it was a green car with a white roof.

 

[VaYank5150]

If the detective told you that, it is almost certainly true... though if you have the courage to call him, there are SO MANY things to ask (Like: What was her mother's home address? What time was her mother supposed to get off of work?) We could crowdsource a list!

So, I tried to call Detective Haynes back this afternoon. The sad news is, Detective Haynes has retired. The good news is, I got to talk to Detective Matthew Whalen who is now responsible for the Guthrie case. I told him about our group here, the thread and even asked about any interaction with Adventures With Purpose - Solving Cold Cases and Environmental Cleanup.

He told me that he had heard they were in the area last year, but apparently AWP did not reach out to them at all while they were there (which I thought was odd). Det. Whalen mentioned that he had recently watched the AWP video about their visit to Katonah and liked it....but he asked me to pass on to Jared that gasoline engines are illegal in the reservoir(s) they were searching (which I think more than one of you have mentioned here before). Det. Whalen even has his own hunches on areas that he would like AWP to check on their return visit, which I thought was cool.

I wanted to make sure that I was not wasting his time as an arm chair sleuth and his response was basically "heck no. Maybe this is how this case can finally get solved".

I now have Det. Whalen's email address, but am not comfortable posting it on an open platform website, so skigirl mentioned that maybe we could brainstorm together and I could get him all of our questions/theories/etc.? I did ask if there was any confirmed information that Leslie was headed to Armonk to pick up her Mother at IBM and he stated that they have nothing in writing on that, but it has always been the assumption. So let's do this, gang!

 

[Skigirl]

So, I tried to call Detective Haynes back this afternoon. The sad news is, Detective Haynes has retired. The good news is, I got to talk to Detective Matthew Whalen who is now responsible for the Guthrie case. I told him about our group here, the thread and even asked about any interaction with Adventures With Purpose - Solving Cold Cases and Environmental Cleanup.

He told me that he had heard they were in the area last year, but apparently AWP did not reach out to them at all while they were there (which I thought was odd). Det. Whalen mentioned that he had recently watched the AWP video about their visit to Katonah and liked it....but he asked me to pass on to Jared that gasoline engines are illegal in the reservoir(s) they were searching (which I think more than one of you have mentioned here before). Det. Whalen even has his own hunches on areas that he would like AWP to check on their return visit, which I thought was cool.

I wanted to make sure that I was not wasting his time as an arm chair sleuth and his response was basically "heck no. Maybe this is how this case can finally get solved".

I now have Det. Whalen's email address, but am not comfortable posting it on an open platform website, so skigirl mentioned that maybe we could brainstorm together and I could get him all of our questions/theories/etc.? I did ask if there was any confirmed information that Leslie was headed to Armonk to pick up her Mother at IBM and he stated that they have nothing in writing on that, but it has always been the assumption. So let's do this, gang!

Love this! I hope that Det. Haynes has a long and lovely retirement. And how great that Det. Whalen is open to our musings and theories.

 

[Skigirl]

I'll start brainstorming some questions that perhaps we can keep reposting as a master list as people add things, to keep them all together. We may not want to overwhelm him with all of them, but it may help to keep them organized?

- What are the details of the car? Was it white with a green top? Green with a white top? What was the top made of, vinyl? Was it a 2-door or a 4-door? What color was the interior? (I would like to do some searching online for it in case it ever turned up).
- When did her mother call? Some articles say she called a couple hours after Leslie was expected, others say it wasn't until the next day.
- Is there any theory or any evidence of what Leslie planned to do between leaving at 1:30 and picking her mother up in Armonk at 5? Is that timeframe correct?
- Did Leslie have any access to funds other than the reported $10 in cash that her mother lent her?
- Did her sister live in Katonah or someplace in Westchester at the time?
- Where did her mother live?
- Were the kids supposed to spend the night at their grandmother's apartment?
- Was there any mention of the kitchen at Leslie's mom's apartment being stocked with food for the kids?
- Did Leslie have any close female friends in the area? Any with kids around her kids' age?
- Would Leslie have needed to stop for gas?
- Are there any particular movie theaters where Leslie was known to go to as a habit that she might have taken the kids to to pass the time between picking them up in Katonah and picking her mother up at IBM? (Listings attached. I know some of these theaters but I'm not sure where all of them theaters were located --some are obvious from the names. The listings are from the NY Daily News.

 

[VaYank5150]

Wow...great stuff, skigirl. I would like to add:
1) Were guardrails commonplace and already installed on the relatively new I-684?
2) Can any records be found for necessary repair/replacement of guardrails after Leslie's disappearance?
3) Where did Leslie work? Is it possible she went to pick up a paycheck?

 

[DD Byrd]

It should be known whether her mother was at work that day. And if she didn't have a car that day (or another ride), it's more likely that Leslie was indeed on her way there.

As for someone seeing something on 684 - it depends on what kind of 'snowstorm' we're talking about. A blizzard may have obscured everyone's vision and she might not have been seen, especially if she likely didn't have her headlights on. There weren't any DRLs then, headlights during the day were for hearses in procession.

Secondly, if it was a bad snowstorm, there may not have been much/any traffic in the first place and she thought she'd take a chance. If her husband was fairly certain she wouldn't have taken 684, backroads from Katonah to IBM and/or White Plains have various possibilities, with few guardrails at the time.

There are smaller water features on Armonk Road that are close to the road and potentially deep enough. Also a few bad curves, such as by the pool club. Cox is on the other side, but there are areas like these that are dense, and were possibly marsh grass and swampy (sinkable) at the time.

 

[DD Byrd]

Also, good point on the hamlets versus towns, etc. It is a confusing area. I noticed my typo above, King Street is 120, not 102. And not only is 120 King Street, it also winds down and continues out of Chappaqua as King Street. In the other direction, it ends up crossing into Connecticut.

 

[Skigirl]

I've been reading some contemporary articles that I didn't have access to until I got a newspapers.com subscription. The snowstorm was actually pretty major. There were at least 30 accidents in northern Westchester that Saturday, Feb. 5 (which is the date she went missing according to Namus, even though this thread says Feb. 6th -- which was probably the date of the official police report). Interstate 84 near Waterbury, CT closed and had traffic backed up for a mile because there were so many accidents on a hill near the city and there were multiple accidents on the highways leading to NY City. There were a couple reports of cars flipping over the guardrails in the area that weekend as well. As I think I mentioned before, we inherited a Ford Maverick from my grandmother in 1978 or 1979, and I remember pretty well that it wasn't great in snow, even though we had snow tires (also, the brakes failed while my mother was going down our steep driveway a couple years later; I don't know if that was a common problem with that model, or if she just got lucky).

I refreshed my memory, and her sister lived on a street (Lakeside Drive) that was just a block or two from the house on Grandview Avenue, and that street has a small pond/lake with no guardrail. I presume that that water body has been searched, maybe even by the Adventures with Purpose guys (?). Or perhaps it's not deep enough to have hidden a car. But given how cold it was, is it possible that she skidded to the water, out onto the ice, and made it far enough out that the car got to a deeper section before it broke through the ice?

Also, one of the articles that I read said that Leslie dropped her mother off at work on her way to get the kids. Was her mother only planning to be at work for the duration of Leslie's round trip to and from Katonah, or did Leslie have plans before or after picking the kids up that would have allowed her mom more time at the office?

 

[VaYank5150]

Just as an FYI, I reached out to Jared with AWP to relay my conversation with Det. Whalen and also to let him know about the illegal gasoline engine thing. He stated "We are in contact with a family member and working closely with her who I thought was in contact with the Detective".

Does anyone know how many siblings Leslie had? Could this be the sister that you mention above?

Also, Jared knows about our work here and so I asked if perhaps this family member might be willing to talk with us as well to fill in gaps and unknowns that we have. His response yesterday, "Mike, I'm dropping her an email now to ask and let her know your help/commitment to helping us solve this one".

Fingers crossed!

 

[Skigirl]

This is kind of wild, but I was looking at our digitized family slides and my father had taken a bunch of pictures of a notable snowstorm in the winter of 1977. From the events in the surrounding photos (birthdays, etc.), I think that they were taken in February and on a weekend.

The photo shows our back yard. Our dog's house (never used; he lived inside) is visible in the lower right corner out of the picture window. It's buried in at least a foot of snow, which was really unusual for the area.

 

[Skigirl]

Just as an FYI, I reached out to Jared with AWP to relay my conversation with Det. Whalen and also to let him know about the illegal gasoline engine thing. He stated "We are in contact with a family member and working closely with her who I thought was in contact with the Detective".

Does anyone know how many siblings Leslie had? Could this be the sister that you mention above?

Also, Jared knows about our work here and so I asked if perhaps this family member might be willing to talk with us as well to fill in gaps and unknowns that we have. His response yesterday, "Mike, I'm dropping her an email now to ask and let her know your help/commitment to helping us solve this one".

Fingers crossed!

I think just the one sister, so that must be the small body of water they mentioned searching near the Guthrie home.

 

[VaYank5150]

Just as an FYI, I reached out to Jared with AWP to relay my conversation with Det. Whalen and also to let him know about the illegal gasoline engine thing. He stated "We are in contact with a family member and working closely with her who I thought was in contact with the Detective".

Does anyone know how many siblings Leslie had? Could this be the sister that you mention above?

Also, Jared knows about our work here and so I asked if perhaps this family member might be willing to talk with us as well to fill in gaps and unknowns that we have. His response yesterday, "Mike, I'm dropping her an email now to ask and let her know your help/commitment to helping us solve this one".

Fingers crossed!

While I completely understand, I am sad that the family member would prefer to work with LE rather than speak with me/us.

 

[VaYank5150]

Got a message from Jared and AWP will be back looking for the Guthrie's the first or second week of October!

 

[Jmoose]

Got a message from Jared and AWP will be back looking for the Guthrie's the first or second week of October!

That’s great! I really believe the Guthrie car went into the water somewhere, that day