NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #10

[Redbird]

In looking up ketamine I found it interesting that the drug can produce a rapid antidepressant effect in people with major depressive disorder. What if they did not know she was bipolar, and it revived her instead of sedating her, enough that she almost got away?

 

[da fino]

interesting post, about the antidepressant effects of special k, redbird.

another interesting aspect of this case is the apparently two different disposal m.o.'s on nearly the same stretch of beach. both involving women that sold themselves. one m.o. with burlap, one with black plastic and dismemberment.

it certainly could be that a single serial killer changed his m.o. it could also be that two different serial killers traded notes on "locations". perhaps a trust was fomented between neighbors, based on a common "appreciation" of prostitutes.

i fully realize this requires a considerable leap in that it is an enormous amount of trust must first be established before any party would divulge such incriminating information to another. therefore, i wonder aloud here, how long where JB and CPH neighbors in the very tight knit community of OBCA?

 

[SherlockHomes]

Everyone is missing that the key here is the drifter. IMHO he is the one named in the 911 call and his name is has not been released. The fact that he was described as having a penchant for prostitutes pretty much means le is after him. Also I can't see dr hack, Joe b or Pak committing the AC 4. Denise Hill said the potbellied greasy haired man paid her in crack and phone cards ( like the killer used for prepaid phones). She also said he sent her letters from Florida and the drifter is supposedly down south in Georgia. He must be from Massapequa area though since his mom lives there and that would explain the use of the dumping ground for the past ten years

 

[crimesnooper]

You know after following the Casey Anthony trial..way too much.. I can only conclude that Shannon Gilbert drowned. My evidence? Well there was a body of water in the area..so of course she drowned.

 

[PickleChris]

This drifter from Massapequa.. Can someone PM me a name?

 

[Theforeigner]

Everyone is missing that the key here is the drifter. IMHO he is the one named in the 911 call and his name is has not been released. The fact that he was described as having a penchant for prostitutes pretty much means le is after him. Also I can't see dr hack, Joe b or Pak committing the AC 4. Denise Hill said the potbellied greasy haired man paid her in crack and phone cards ( like the killer used for prepaid phones). She also said he sent her letters from Florida and the drifter is supposedly down south in Georgia. He must be from Massapequa area though since his mom lives there and that would explain the use of the dumping ground for the past ten years

Hi Sherlock

Interesting post!

I all respect I´d correct a cupple of minor things:

The "drifter" has been claimed to have a penchant for strippers.

Denise Hill said the potbellied greasy haired man sent her greeting cards and that he was from Florida.

PLEASE PM me the name of the "drifter"'s mother or ANY further information about the "drifter" and/or his family members etc.

Thanks in advance.

TF

 

[waltzingmatilda]

There has been specualation/rumor that Michael Pak, the driver, and the phantom drifter are one and the same. There is no confirmation of this in MSM that I know of.

There was a news story earlier in this thread (I'll try and find the article and link it) that Michael Pak was employeed by JB that fateful night, NOT Shannan!

Pak's name and photo was included in the 48 hrs feature so I hope it is ok to post his name here.

Moo

wm

OT, every time I visit this thread, there is always a 'guest' lurking. To all our WS guests, please become a member and join in the discussion. Your opinions do matter!

 

[future criminologist]

There has been specualation/rumor that Michael Pak, the driver, and the phantom drifter are one and the same. There is no confirmation of this in MSM that I know of.

Pak has always been the driver. This is well-known and not a rumor. That's his job.

 

[Redbird]

We really only have his word for it that he was merely the driver. In the beginning LE and news articles identified him as Shannan's pimp and boyfriend. How do we know he worked for Shannan? What proof do we have that Shannan did not work for MP or someone higher up Pak's food chain? Because he tells us so? Shannan isn't here to verify his status. The drifter is a phantom. The fact that he really existed has never been verified by a reliable source and there has never been an explanation of why he was mentioned in one or two day's news coverage and never mentioned again. If he really exists, why hasn't some inquiring reporter discovered his name or tracked him down by now?

 

[scandi]

We really only have his word for it that he was merely the driver. In the beginning LE and news articles identified him as Shannan's pimp and boyfriend. How do we know he worked for Shannan? What proof do we have that Shannan did not work for MP or someone higher up Pak's food chain? Because he tells us so? Shannan isn't here to verify his status. The drifter is a phantom. The fact that he really existed has never been verified by a reliable source and there has never been an explanation of why he was mentioned in one or two day's news coverage and never mentioned again. If he really exists, why hasn't some inquiring reporter discovered his name or tracked him down by now?

Interesting Redbird, In the beginning I have memory that Shannan's BF was also thought of as her pimp. MP was just the driver. Things do change with time and as we learn more, for sure. ;}

 

[Redbird]

Does it make sense that Brewer would have called Pak to come and get Shannan out of his house, when Brewer would not pay them? If Pak was clearly Shannan's employee, bodyguard, driver, protector, wouldn't it be his job to get her, get the money and get the heck out of there? Would Brewer have been so naive to think he would receive support from Pak if Pak was Shannan's protector? Doesn't really make sense. Would make more sense if Pak was a pimp/middleman/driver working with a silent partner or organization that controlled Pak who controlled Shannan. She could have started out "independent," then fallen into a trap with someone else gaining all the control.

Why would Pak take care of JB's problem and go away empty handed? Or maybe Pak discussed the situation with his superiors and was told to find Shannan and get her out of there. Pak would them be paid by someone else to take care of the problem. Pak's comment to Gus was she'll be in a lot of trouble. Why would she be in a lot of trouble if she and the driver were working alone. Brewer just wanted them both to go away. He would then be indebted to and afraid of Pak and associates. Did Pak pick Shannan up and take her to CPH who could sedate Shannan and get her out of there. Did they load her in a car and take her away?

If there was an Oak Beach group that organized parties that involved prostitutes and maybe even snuff films, could Michael Pak and his associates have supplied these women? Could Pak have been breaking Shannan in with a "date" with Brewer? If so,
at this point Shannan was just a candidate for the next holiday. Then something went horribly wrong. Shannan found a snuff film, or something she recognized as belonging to a dead girl, or some phone conversation she heard that tipped her off to the danger she was in, that Pak wasn't her protector. She ran screaming from the house, woke up the whole neighborhood, including some of the party boys, and the doc was called upon to fix it, like he fixed so many problems in the community. The people supplying these women would be so evil, everyone would be too afraid to talk.

In this case there would not be a lone serial killer, and maybe that's what LE really meant when they said there were two, three, four killers. The doc would be in a lot of danger himself and all the party participants. Just thinking outside the box.

Just came across an old newsday report:

Private detectives on missing woman case
Originally published: December 20, 2010 8:40 PM
Updated: December 20, 2010 8:54 PM
By MICHAEL AMON AND ANDREW STRICKLER
"Private detectives hired by an international activist group are investigating the disappearance of a Maine woman once thought to be among the four dead women found in Gilgo Beach, the woman's family said Monday."

"Relatives of Megan Waterman, 22, who worked as a prostitute and vanished after meeting a client in Hauppauge in June, said they worked with Avaaz - an online group advocating on climate change, human rights and corruption - to hire two female investigators in mid-November."

"The investigators specialize in sex trafficking cases and work out of New York and Texas, said Avaaz spokeswoman Brianna Cayo Cotter, declining to name them. Avaaz is paying for the detectives, one of several missing-person cases it's probing as part of an anti-sex-trafficking project, she said. Meserve said the family was referred to Avaaz by the National Organization for Women."

Full article at http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/private-detectives-on-missing-woman-case-1.2556306

Shannan's boyfriend Diaz, in a recent interview, hinted at this scenario.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

reposting this link for discussion.

http://mobile.nj.com/advnj/db_27290...ontentguid=Pib9WTdu&src=cat&full=true#display

Shannan had been using the same driver, Pak, for several months, and she trusted the 41-year-old man from Queens, Diaz said.



wm

 

[truthspider]

Everyone is missing that the key here is the drifter. IMHO he is the one named in the 911 call and his name is has not been released. The fact that he was described as having a penchant for prostitutes pretty much means le is after him. Also I can't see dr hack, Joe b or Pak committing the AC 4. Denise Hill said the potbellied greasy haired man paid her in crack and phone cards ( like the killer used for prepaid phones). She also said he sent her letters from Florida and the drifter is supposedly down south in Georgia. He must be from Massapequa area though since his mom lives there and that would explain the use of the dumping ground for the past ten years

There is no drifter, the drifter is a "MacGuffin" inserted by the SCPD as part of their strategy against the suspect. If there was someone else at the house (who isn't one of the only 3 men involved in May 1st events) their identity would have been flushed out already by the press.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Some good Info in this meeting of the Suffolk County Legislature Public Safety Committee on 1/27/2011. JB actually contacted MP for the date, not SG!!!!

http://legis.suffolkcountyny.gov/clerk/cmeet/ps/2011/PS050511.pdf

"Just to give you a quick overview of where the case is, and forgive me because I know most of you know all of this, but I'll just mention it. Of course this whole case started with the disappearance of Shannon Gilbert which occurred on May 1st -- almost a year ago, a few more days -- and Shannon Gilbert was a young woman who advertised on Craig's List. On the day in question she left her home in Jersey, took a train into Manhattan where she engaged in one, maybe two tricks, and she had a driver who was contacted by an individual in the Oak Beach Association and she was taken there at approximately two o'clock in the morning.

She spent a couple of hours with that client and then she became disoriented, confused. We're not exactly -- what happened, we have some ideas; we believe drugs may have been involved. And that led to a 911 call which went to our operator initially, but she had no idea where she was and all she remembered was Jones Beach on her way out there. And once she relayed that she thought she was at or near Jones Beach, that call was relayed to the New York State Police, and she was on the phone for about 18 minutes and then she was disconnected. That began a very intensive investigation for her disappearance.

Within the ensuing months, numerous canvasses and searches of the area were done to no avail. In December -- again, well publicized -- K-9 Officer John Malia and his dog Blue -- and it has been reported that this was a training -- that he was on training exercise; no. Any time he had free time, he and others would go into that area and search. He went well beyond the area, the immediate area that we thought she could have been, and he discovered human remains on December 11th. On the overview photo I gave you, there's numbers of the bodies and remains that were found; the numbers represent the order that we found them in...."

Bumping up goathairjones' post which states that JB contacted MP to arrange the date with Shannan.

wm

 

[NJGuy]

Good morning all, in light of the 48hrs special, this thread has seen a bump in activity which can only help the case. After watching and continuing to think about the case, I wanted to post some questions that maybe people has some insight into or reasonable ideas. Many of these questions have been discussed before, but to me, they are some of the biggest questions in a case full of unknowns...anyway here we go

1.http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/04/police_think_they_know_the_ide.html ...this article, along with others, cites that police know they identity of a suspect but haven't made an arrest. Questions are - do they really have a suspect? Building a case? Planting that to spook the SK?
2. Has MB's sister confirmed or denied that CPH or JB or MP or anyone else's voice is the man who called her? Have the police played her those voices for recognition?
3. Kill sites...a garage or shed SK has access to? How close in proximity is the kill sites to the dump sites? How far did he have to travel to dump the bodies?
4. Did he request the last two victims to leave their cell phones because of the problems that occurred with SG? Are they definitely connected? Did he realize his mistakes with SG and change tactics with the last two victims?
5. 2008....what happened and where was he? Why no victims? Injury, Jail, out of area, no opportunity to have the time necessary for a victim?

Obviously many many more questions about this case exist to which we have no answers, but these are some that have swirling in my head and thought I'd put out for thought and discussion

 

[minazoe]

ok...watching 48 hours thingie...catching up...stay tuned...

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I see my #1 suspect can't help but make himself look MORE suspect as time goes on. Called the family at the behest of SG's driver and friend? Really? Wouldn't take a poly, huh? Surprise surprise.

The burning question in my mind is, how does Brewer know Hackett (because I'd bet dollars to donuts they DO know each other). And that little ride SG and JB took that night? Whatcha wanna bet they drove to CPH's house? Any takers?

 

[minazoe]

did cph write those letters and send them through the mail?

what compells him to write letters and make phone calls? what is the attraction?

letters in the mail go to him trying to gain legitamacy in my mind.

out of touch academic? or grandiose serial killer ?

who writes a letter to a tv station?

Ted Kazinski?
Zodiac??
Tim Mc Veigh?

using mail?

anthrax, mail bomb, manifesto, mail order bride, po box, personal ads, on and on and on...

it's all in the Serial killer , mass murder tool box.

if he typed out that letter on paper and put it in a mailbox, my suspicion just went up 100 percent.

 

[cog]

Hi WM and all,
Sorry for lurking but I'm really trying to get all the facts straight. I didn't want to ask silly questions and waste your time.

This case really has me intrigued and I'm loving ALL of your posts and information.

If I may, can someone send me a link to the LISK.com site. I'd love to read those posts.

Thanks and HELLO to all.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Hi WM and all,
Sorry for lurking but I'm really trying to get all the facts straight. I didn't want to ask silly questions and waste your time.

This case really has me intrigued and I'm loving ALL of your posts and information.

If I may, can someone send me a link to the LISK.com site. I'd love to read those posts.

Thanks and HELLO to all.

:wagon:

Welcome to WS cog! I'm glad you joined us here.

Just type in www (dot) longislandserialkiller (dot) com. Hope this helps!

wm