NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #10

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #441
In the beginning MP was not named and there were comments he did not want his identity revealed. Maybe the reporters went along with this by calling him "the drifter." That's the only thing I can think of to explain his brief description in the news. Plus we have "the drifter" going to Georgia and MP going to Georgia.

sounds plausible and rational to me :)

also, it never seemed true that there was a party there. JB claims he was lonely so he called paid company, totally believable, but if there was a party at his house, how could he be lonely?

there was no party, just some shadiness and a SK who broke his protocol.
 
  • #442
In the beginning MP was not named and there were comments he did not want his identity revealed. Maybe the reporters went along with this by calling him "the drifter." That's the only thing I can think of to explain his brief description in the news. Plus we have "the drifter" going to Georgia and MP going to Georgia.
MP being the drifter makes sense. But for one minor nit the NY Post states the drifter is 48 ( link ) whereas MP is 41 ( link ).

This article is from Feb. and states that cops have Zeroed in on 3 men. I wonder what happened with that? I am curious about these three men. Is it the same three that are discussed on 48 hrs?

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-02-01/news/27738436_1_serial-killer-craigslist-phone-numbers

There is also the bit wrt focus on area motels ( link ) and the FBI investigation into the sex trafficking angle ( link )
 
  • #443
How does one thank a poster? :crazy:

I'm thinking about what shadowraiths posted. The motels verses private homes...would the SK even go to a motel and take the chance of being spoted? What types of peeps work at those local motels? Do they keep security cams on? Do they allow hourly bookings?

Where is the monster killing the girls and how is he disposing of their posessions?

What kick is he getting of contacting victims families? Why only the 2 families? Are they the only girls who had phones on them at the time?

Sorry, bouncing thoughts around in my hand and putting out there for comment.

BTW, I'm loving all of your input! You guys are great!!
 
  • #444
Aside from just racking up more points in the pathological liar dept. i believe this adds some nice points to the "living in a fantasy world" metric as well. but most importantly, it gives a lot of credibility to Mrs. Gilbert claim that he said he runs a treatment center and she was there.

His wife clearly states on many occassions, on film, that "We do not treat patients here"

Than why is his association address listed as his primary location of business all over the place! CPHs web is behind the gate, and he likes to catch and bring his prey right to him so he can "play doctor".

"This incident has exposed the dr for using his association address as a doctors office…" - Oak Beach Association insider

for anyone on here that still gives this man the benefit of the doubt, and believes anything he says upfront, please take your head out of the sand. If you believe him when he now (after lying to you on a number of occassions) says he got the phone numbers from Diaz/Pak, then I guess you are just gullible and too trusting. That being said, will you wire me $5000 USD via western union, I promise I will pay you back double on Monday!
LOL

I'm a stickler for accuracy, so bear with me here. Mrs. H did NOT say they didn't treat patients out of the home. She said, "We don't treat REHAB patients here."

Not that anything she says carries much weight with me, but there is a difference between the two statements. Just sayin'.
 
  • #445
I'm a stickler for accuracy, so bear with me here. Mrs. H did NOT say they didn't treat patients out of the home. She said, "We don't treat REHAB patients here."

Not that anything she says carries much weight with me, but there is a difference between the two statements. Just sayin'.

thanks, you are right. the insider (fluke) said as part of the association rules, you can't run a business out of the association. It seems like he shouldn't be treating anyone from his home regardless.

thanks for the accuracy, that is the point of our minds coming together ;)
 
  • #446
Wasn't it 2 different PO's that happened upon 2 seperate bodies that led to the finding of 10 total bodies? How often is that area even patrolled? I know one of them was on the lookout for Shannon but why look there?

I'm sure this has been discussed here but I can not get out of my mind the fact that the SK knows a lot about investigations and there fore knows what to do so as not to be caught.

Course that could easily be the doc as well so back to square one. :maddening:

Where are their belongings? Did he keep something as a momento? How, where did he dispose of the stuff?

Who did the searches at the Doc's and John's house? Local PD or FBI or both?

TIA
 
  • #447
many people are sociopaths...there are triggers that may cause a "rather harmless" sociopath to begin killing...not any trigger that creates sociopathy....although
drug addiction and other conditions can cause sociopathic behaviours...from what I understand.
I take it you're referring to an ambulatory psychopaths? These types have learned to adapt in pro-social ways. For example, they do not engage in violence or felonious behavior. For the most part, they come across as pretty normal, endearing, even. What differentiates them is their lack of empathy. Though, they're very good at "faking it" ala semantic aphasia ("They know the words but not the music.", Hervey Cleckly, 1962).

As for drug induced sociopathic characteristics? It's arguable, I suppose. Organicity would generally rule out sociopathy. That is, unless the underlying enduring behavioral trait is aspd. In which case, some drugs could exacerbate it. Unfortunately, people regularly toss around the sociopath & psychopath labels, interchanging them, without truly understanding them.

Take for example, cases involving filicide. Esp those cases involving the mother killing her children. While there are certainly women who fall squarely into the sociopathic model (i.e., Susan Smith, though her elevated PCL-R scores indicate psychopathy as opposed to sociopathy), there are those who do not (i.e., Andrea Yates). And yet some believe Yates just *had to be* a sociopath to drag her son into the bathroom to drown him.

In any event, wrt the filicide bit, I have an article that touches upon that particlarly tragic issue. ( link )

David Berkowitz (son of sam) is a perfect example of this
Not really. Berkowitz has a history of truancy, sustained head injuries @ 6, 7, and 8, and began killing humans @ 23. While he was dx'd with paranoid schizophrenia, which effectively ruled out a dx of aspd, he later claimed he had "faked it." This is arguably quite possible as he showed elevated scores on the PCL-R. ( link )
 
  • #448
I take it you're referring to an ambulatory psychopaths? These types have learned to adapt in pro-social ways. For example, they do not engage in violence or felonious behavior. For the most part, they come across as pretty normal, endearing, even. What differentiates them is their lack of empathy. Though, they're very good at "faking it" ala semantic aphasia ("They know the words but not the music.", Hervey Cleckly, 1962).

As for drug induced sociopathic characteristics? It's arguable, I suppose. Organicity would generally rule out sociopathy. That is, unless the underlying enduring behavioral trait is aspd. In which case, some drugs could exacerbate it. Unfortunately, people regularly toss around the sociopath & psychopath labels, interchanging them, without truly understanding them.

Take for example, cases involving filicide. Esp those cases involving the mother killing her children. While there are certainly women who fall squarely into the sociopathic model (i.e., Susan Smith, though her elevated PCL-R scores indicate psychopathy as opposed to sociopathy), there are those who do not (i.e., Andrea Yates). And yet some believe Yates just *had to be* a sociopath to drag her son into the bathroom to drown him.

In any event, wrt the filicide bit, I have an article that touches upon that particlarly tragic issue. ( link )


Not really. Berkowitz has a history of truancy, sustained head injuries @ 6, 7, and 8, and began killing humans @ 23. While he was dx'd with paranoid schizophrenia, which effectively ruled out a dx of aspd, he later claimed he had "faked it." This is arguably quite possible as he showed elevated scores on the PCL-R. ( link )

Can I ask you for your opinion on this SK? For the sake of argument, or for the sake of my question, lets assume all of the remains on ocean parkway are his: the child wrapped and placed in the brush (not a homicide), the parts of victims whose torso's were found in manorville, and the 4 girls wrapped in burlap.

without speculating as to who it is, how would you profile this person psychologically?

(laymans terms might help us)

thanks in advance :)
 
  • #449
Another thing I've been meaning to mention but keep forgetting...

Megan Waterman's mother claims she has received several voice mails to her work number from someone claiming to be LE. ( link ) Iow, how this individual has her work number? After all, Megan's pimp/bf, claims she did not take her cell phone. Then again, he could simply be lying.
 
  • #450
Another thing I've been meaning to mention but keep forgetting...

Megan Waterman's mother claims she has received several voice mails to her work number from someone claiming to be LE. ( link ) Iow, how this individual has her work number? After all, Megan's pimp/bf, claims she did not take her cell phone. Then again, he could simply be lying.

I think that is also intresting. But as you see here on Websleuths, there is some good sleuthing going on here. All the SK would need to know is MW real name and a computer. This would tie in to the SK being very technology savy. I don't think this SK is like Ridgeway. I saw a documentry that Ridgeway would wait on the right moment to pounce on his victims. I think this guy is a sadist and play games with them before hand. He could easly get info from them when he has them scared for their lives.
 
  • #451
Okay, I'm still full of questions and if ya'll have hashed & re-hashed all of this then kick me to the curb!!

Some of the body parts of women whose body was found in Manorville showed up on Ocean Parkway.

Bare with me here. Okay, the SK cuts off theirs heads/hands & other parts to HIDE their identity so they say.

But, he then dumps those SAME body parts to be discovered in another location. I'm so confused here.

Did he really try to hide their identity or was he playing a cat and mouse game? It seems more logical to get rid of those parts, you would certainly SEPERATE them not keep the same girls parts in one bag. You know, toss a piece here and toss a piece there. Heck throw them out in the ocean and get rid of them.

I'm wondering if he does indeed want all of this to be connected??
 
  • #452
I think that is also intresting. But as you see here on Websleuths, there is some good sleuthing going on here. All the SK would need to know is MW real name and a computer. This would tie in to the SK being very technology savy. I don't think this SK is like Ridgeway. I saw a documentry that Ridgeway would wait on the right moment to pounce on his victims. I think this guy is a sadist and play games with them before hand. He could easly get info from them when he has them scared for their lives.

If the mothers work number wasn't in the phone, finding an employed adults work phone number wouldn't be that hard. Getting an underage girls unlisted cell phone number would be a bit harder, unless it's sitting out there on her fb page.

I think this SK is someone who is an expert at manipulating and controlling people. Calling the victims mother pretending to be LE to glean info about the investigation is a perfect example. Owning and using his police scanner is another. If you are part of the investigation, whether to "help" or not, you are in a better place to glean info about the investigation. The lab rat is studying the scientists as well. Maybe that is why he has been overwhelmingly outgoing in offering his help from the start. "I gave them my calling card" ...and just started calling everyone involved, probably without invocation.

"That individual has been very helpful" - Dormer on CPH
Yeah, he just wants to help alright, himself.
In his letter he states, "I gave them my contact information should I be able to help in any way" -CPH
... except take a lie detector test.


Writing letters to a tv show to tell them how things went down, or convince people of how things went down, I bet even in incarceration he will be able to figure out how to manipulate and control people, he will probably write letters to the victims families from prison, if they don't monitor all of his mail thoroughly.

He will probably keep the location of Shannan as a bargaining chip to stay in touch with and converse with the family (think Joran van der Sloot) and try to get something for that information $.

He has been injecting himself into the investigation in many forms, to glean info, control and manipulate people.

Which is why I believe exactly what Mrs Gilbert said Hackett said to her on the phone. Playing the helpful doctor card was his way of trying to control the investigation from day 1. (If i tell the family she left with the driver, it will throw the trail elsewhere) Except the driver came back looking and to file a missing persons report... No wonder CPH felt the need to "help" Pak in anyway he could lol.

There is a fancy name for this, but I can't recall it offhand, it is used in many fields, I have witnessed my father do it as an attorney. He would call the plaintiff and talk to them and casually slide into the conversation a retelling of the events in a manor that suited his client, the defendant. It's subtle but it does manipulate someone's memory of an event.

It's also why he can't stay away from the cameras even when he tried to walk away because he knows he should, he turns around and continues to talk to them, he wants to control what we think of the story.
 
  • #453
Another thing I've been meaning to mention but keep forgetting...

Megan Waterman's mother claims she has received several voice mails to her work number from someone claiming to be LE. ( link ) Iow, how this individual has her work number? After all, Megan's pimp/bf, claims she did not take her cell phone. Then again, he could simply be lying.

Does that make "3" different families that have been contacted?
 
  • #454
Okay, I'm still full of questions and if ya'll have hashed & re-hashed all of this then kick me to the curb!!

Some of the body parts of women whose body was found in Manorville showed up on Ocean Parkway.

Bare with me here. Okay, the SK cuts off theirs heads/hands & other parts to HIDE their identity so they say.

But, he then dumps those SAME body parts to be discovered in another location. I'm so confused here.

Did he really try to hide their identity or was he playing a cat and mouse game? It seems more logical to get rid of those parts, you would certainly SEPERATE them not keep the same girls parts in one bag. You know, toss a piece here and toss a piece there. Heck throw them out in the ocean and get rid of them.

I'm wondering if he does indeed want all of this to be connected??

I spent about an hour discussing this exact topic with my fellow sleuther gf.
Jessica Taylor, he took off her feet and head, and brought them to oak beach. they are called trophies. it wasn't to hide anything as her torso was left pretty much in the open in manorville. he probably tool the feet and head to his house for a while and did odd things with them, i wont speculate on the details. at some point either back in 2003 he tossed them off into the brush, or he has been keeping all these parts, bodies very close to his house, and May 1 forced him to toss it all in the bush down the road.

If you are the level of someone sick enough to be taking heads and feet, its probably not because you want to hide the identity as much as you get off on having the head (and feet) around.

maybe he was dismembering back then so he could keep a part or 2, but ultimately got comfortable enough to keep the whole package in his close hiding spot/backyard etc.
 
  • #455
I spent about an hour discussing this exact topic with my fellow sleuther gf.
Jessica Taylor, he took off her feet and head, and brought them to oak beach. they are called trophies. it wasn't to hide anything as her torso was left pretty much in the open in manorville. he probably tool the feet and head to his house for a while and did odd things with them, i wont speculate on the details. at some point either back in 2003 he tossed them off into the brush, or he has been keeping all these parts, bodies very close to his house, and May 1 forced him to toss it all in the bush down the road.

If you are the level of someone sick enough to be taking heads and feet, its probably not because you want to hide the identity as much as you get off on having the head (and feet) around.

maybe he was dismembering back then so he could keep a part or 2, but ultimately got comfortable enough to keep the whole package in his close hiding spot/backyard etc.

Truthie,
Yes I agree! I wonder if he kept those things as trophies but then why dispose of in the places he did and why ALL TOGETHER??? He wants to be found IMHO. But, that is not want the profilers say so what the heck do I know. I guess you can look at these things in numerous ways & keep coming up with different conclusions! :banghead:

You've said you are doing your own survelience. What are you watching if you don't mind my asking? How long have you been doing this? Just interested in hearing your thoughts.

TIA
 
  • #456
Dumping of parts in different places.

One is to hide identity. The other is to keep them, for whatever reason, for further curiosity upon inspection; to mark another ground; to have all the parts for self ownership.; to make the game more fun when found...
 
  • #457
Anyone know of the childhood of the Doc?

I ask as I noticed a common thread for Berkowitz and Bundy, told adopted at a later age, not right away.

Wraiths, I can't get the filicide link to open???
 
  • #458
I can't get the filicide link to open???
Not sure what the problem is. I just tested it and it worked fine. One thing to note is, the site is not truly cross-browser compatible. It def works with firefox. And it appears to work with google chrome & safari. You do need javascript enabled though, since it's a joomla-based site.

ETA ~ not sure about internet explorer, as I avoid that browser like the plague! lol
 
  • #459
... What kick is he getting of contacting victims families? Why only the 2 families? Are they the only girls who had phones on them at the time? ...

Hi cog !!

Your question about cell phones prompted me to think on them again. This was probably discussed before:

3 years before Shannan disappeared, Maureen Brainard-Barns disappeared on July 9 2007. The following year there was one cell-phone ping from a Long Island tower, a few miles from Gilgo Beach where someone tried to access her voice mail.

Then Melissa Barthelemy disappeared July 12 2009, and we have the cell phone calls to the sister that ended in August 2009. Melissa's abusive bf/pimp said she was really tight with the "older white guy from LI" and she would go to LI a lot.

THEN Shannan disappeared May 1 2010, and we all know about the 911 call that brought heat to the Oak Beach community of Long Island and the CPH phone calls to SG's mom and sister.

Between Shannan's disappearance and Amber Lynn Costello's disappearance and death, we have Megan Waterman missing and her body found among the Long Island victims. There is no info wrt a cell phone found or missing. Presumably she had one. Did her bf/pimp (who is being less than co-operative) take it with him when he left her alone in the room with her last trick? Where is it? Was she or the pimp told (as Amber was) to ditch the cell phone before meeting with her last client, or did she have a cell phone on her that became a souvenir for her killer?

Then Amber Lynn Costello disappeared September 2 2010 after an offer of big $$$ and instructions to not bring her cell phone. IMO, the 911 call that Shannan made could well be what precipitated the john's instructions that Amber not bring her phone.

FWIW, we have no information whether any of the AC victims were found with or without cell phones.

ETA: Contrary to what i just posted re Megan, i just read Shadow's post (THANKS!!) that Megan's bf said she did NOT take her cell phone. IMO, that is significant that both victims post-Shannan were instructed not to take cell phones.
 
  • #460
Okay, if Megan's bf/pimp AC and Amber's roomie (??) DS know the girls didn't take their cell phones, are the pimps/bfs the ones who are instructed by the john that the girls should not bring their phones? It has been reported that Megan's jailed bf AC is being less than co-operative with LE. If he simply stepped out and left Megan alone for the first time and w/o her phone, howz it that is when Megan disappeared and went to her death?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
73
Guests online
1,457
Total visitors
1,530

Forum statistics

Threads
632,382
Messages
18,625,487
Members
243,125
Latest member
JosBay
Back
Top