NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #10

[cog]

Have any of our other excellent sleuths done a skip trace on Michael Pak? I discovered his real name per federal bureau of prisons is MICHAEL MIN CHUL PAK and when I looked up Massapequa, NY I discovered there is a person with that last name whose address is given as the Massapequa Recovery Center, Inc. I cannot tell if this was given as an address for this person or a place of employment or business ownership, but I was surprised to see treatment center, recovery center, come up again in this case. I don't know what to do with this information, if anything. Cannot connect the dots. It is interesting that Amber Constello was supposed to enter rehab the week of her death. There is a Michael Pak now listed in Georgia and there is another person with that last name in a Georgia prison. Looking through court records, it looks like Michael Min Chul Pak has been in the Long Island area since 1993 or earlier. I suspect Mr. Pak has much experience as a "driver," and I personally would not take any information he has given to be fact.

Hi Everyone, :seeya:

Redbird,
I've been reading and you all some great ideas and I'm so impressed with all of you!! I've had a wierd feeling about this Pak all along. My reasons are this...what driver (keep in mind I have no idea how the call girl biz works other than my own imagination) isn't going to be po'd when the girl leaves with zero bucks? I mean, isn't he going to tell her you better go back in there and get my money or I'm gonna beat your arz or some other such vulgar line. What would be Pak's motive to just up and leave her then turn around and go back searching for her with her family? Makes no sense to me. Did her beat her up cause she came out empty handed and he got zilch? Did he dump her some where after that? Something is wierd to me about him. AMOO

 

[Redbird]

Also, if he is just the driver and SG was an "independent", why didn't she know where she was? Why didn't she know the address if she set up the appointment?

 

[inspctrgadget]

truthspider, here's a response to your questions/comments (your comments are indented):

your theory requires that the manorville victims were killed by another SK who happened to discard parts of his victims within yards of the gilgo victims. ridiculously unlikely in my opinion. your doc wasn't around then, and didn't work in riverhead just past manorville as cph did.

- they may be related, they may not be related. i don't know. my theory excludes manorville entirely for the moment. but this person was around in 2003. this person went to college near there, as did a brother. and a 2nd brother works right in the town next door to manorville.

Your theory also requires another amazing coincidence, a girl's life is threatened to the extent that she calls 911 and runs for her life from JB, only to encounter a completly unrelated murderer moments later and meets her demise. Holy Catfish that's bad luck!

- it's a coincidence, true, but not entirely unlikely. a woman in distress and causing a large commotion in a small beach community where a SK resides would definitely become a more likely target. its like the way a fish can sense a wounded or weak fish and then eats them for dinner. definitely bad luck, but not completely unlikely.

your theory also requires that cph was targeted as a patsy in the real SK phone call, and coincidentally without knowledge of said framing, CPH actually called the family. WHAT A COINCIDENCE! Man is that convenient!!

- it was dumb luck for the SK that made the initial call, but again, coincidental but not unlikely. in my theory, the real SK did not intend for CPH to make the call on the 6th, but the event was more likely to happen since the name CPH was used to begin with. it's definitely not too out of the realm of the possible/likely, particularly since we don't know the scope of diaz/pak's conversation with cph on their first encounter. it was reported as a "chance" encounter, but i suspect that diaz/pak already knew about the suspicious call from a dr. from SG's mom on May 2nd/3rd. they went looking for her, and bumped into CPH on May 5th(?). when they discovered he was a doctor during that conversation, they asked him to call SG's mom/sister immediately. so in fact, there is potentially a high likelihood that CPH would have made that call on the 6th, or at least eventually.

Also, if you research SK, the first thing you would learn is that the real SK WOULD poke his head out and into the investigation, as they almost always do, especially given the opportunity.

- not so sure this is "always" the case, but i'll agree that it happens for sure. there are many unsolved SKs, and I assume many do not want to get caught.

You say that CPH was framed? Why did he say on camera that he wasn't? I would think someone framed for murder would know it and acknowledge it.

- good point. he very cleary denies ever making any statements about a halfway house or seeing SG when he called on the May 6th, and I believe him, but i think the "halfway house" call actually occurred way before the 6th by someone other than CPH. also, since he knows he's not guilty, why start saying that he's been framed in the media? i wouldn't, i would simply deny the allegation.

Finally, he looks guilty because he lied repeatedly. Do gooder isn't a phrase i would apply to someone guilty of multiple gross negligence cases aganst minors. Check the court docs, don't take my word for it

- i'm not familiar with the court docs you're talking about, but every doctor is afraid of lawsuits and carries malpractice insurance because they get sued all the time. doctors are just people so sometimes they do actually screw up. that said, i'll retract my "do-gooder" statement and insert "interested party".

Your theory does not require all of these highly improbabable coincdences if your suspect is CPH. Occam's Razor.

- i agree, completely, it makes much more sense on the face of it. the problem with CPH though is that he has a pretty solid alabi of being home with his wife. and to me occam's razor said SG tried to hide/seek help much closer to GC's house - CPH's house is pretty far away.

Plastic doesn't break down in the environment ... ever. Can you re explain that statement?

- you're right, it's not biodegradable, but it photodegrades from sunlight, becomes brittle and is subject to animals chewing through it, strong winds, snow, etc. burlap would not and also would blend in to the natural surroundings where a black bag would stand out.

Do you happen to have a bionic appendage Inspector? .....go go gadget wooden leg?

- yes.


Truthspider, what do you make of the burlap rug? How common are those?

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Some good Info in this meeting of the Suffolk County Legislature Public Safety Committee on 1/27/2011. JB actually contacted MP for the date, not SG!!!!

http://legis.suffolkcountyny.gov/clerk/cmeet/ps/2011/PS050511.pdf

"Just to give you a quick overview of where the case is, and forgive me because I know most of you know all of this, but I'll just mention it. Of course this whole case started with the disappearance of Shannon Gilbert which occurred on May 1st -- almost a year ago, a few more days -- and Shannon Gilbert was a young woman who advertised on Craig's List. On the day in question she left her home in Jersey, took a train into Manhattan where she engaged in one, maybe two tricks, and she had a driver who was contacted by an individual in the Oak Beach Association and she was taken there at approximately two o'clock in the morning.

She spent a couple of hours with that client and then she became disoriented, confused. We're not exactly -- what happened, we have some ideas; we believe drugs may have been involved. And that led to a 911 call which went to our operator initially, but she had no idea where she was and all she remembered was Jones Beach on her way out there. And once she relayed that she thought she was at or near Jones Beach, that call was relayed to the New York State Police, and she was on the phone for about 18 minutes and then she was disconnected. That began a very intensive investigation for her disappearance.

Within the ensuing months, numerous canvasses and searches of the area were done to no avail. In December -- again, well publicized -- K-9 Officer John Malia and his dog Blue -- and it has been reported that this was a training -- that he was on training exercise; no. Any time he had free time, he and others would go into that area and search. He went well beyond the area, the immediate area that we thought she could have been, and he discovered human remains on December 11th. On the overview photo I gave you, there's numbers of the bodies and remains that were found; the numbers represent the order that we found them in...."

Bumping up this post wrt MP being contacted by a member of the OBA to deliver Shannan that goathairjones so kindly posted on p.5.

wm

 

[da fino]

thanks for the protocol info truthspider. that makes perfect sense. any idea how the two parties involved in such a conversation would agree on price and location?

...What would be Pak's motive to just up and leave her then turn around and go back searching for her with her family? Makes no sense to me. Did her beat her up cause she came out empty handed and he got zilch? Did he dump her some where after that? Something is wierd to me about him. AMOO

if i were SG's driver, and an intoxicated prostitute just called 911, i do not think i would want to be anywhere near there when the police arrived and explain my role in the incident. if i couldn't get her out of there quickly, i would wait for her to call me for a pick up.

 

[inspctrgadget]

Was he living in NY during all of the gilgo disappearances? If so when did he have time to live in all of those other locales?........

I don't know, but it seems that the nature of a "locum tenens" doctor is a temporary position, pretty short duration (weeks, maybe a month or two). OB would probably be home base.

 

[Redbird]

Doctors don't usually keep several licenses going at the same time. Makes me wonder if he has some sort of business that requires being licensed in several states. (Like owning a chain of doc in the box clinics).

 

[truthspider]

truthspider, here's a response to your questions/comments (your comments are indented):

your theory requires that the manorville victims were killed by another SK who happened to discard parts of his victims within yards of the gilgo victims. ridiculously unlikely in my opinion. your doc wasn't around then, and didn't work in riverhead just past manorville as cph did.

- they may be related, they may not be related. i don't know. my theory excludes manorville entirely for the moment. but this person was around in 2003. this person went to college near there, as did a brother. and a 2nd brother works right in the town next door to manorville.

Your theory also requires another amazing coincidence, a girl's life is threatened to the extent that she calls 911 and runs for her life from JB, only to encounter a completly unrelated murderer moments later and meets her demise. Holy Catfish that's bad luck!

- it's a coincidence, true, but not entirely unlikely. a woman in distress and causing a large commotion in a small beach community where a SK resides would definitely become a more likely target. its like the way a fish can sense a wounded or weak fish and then eats them for dinner. definitely bad luck, but not completely unlikely.

your theory also requires that cph was targeted as a patsy in the real SK phone call, and coincidentally without knowledge of said framing, CPH actually called the family. WHAT A COINCIDENCE! Man is that convenient!!

- it was dumb luck for the SK that made the initial call, but again, coincidental but not unlikely. in my theory, the real SK did not intend for CPH to make the call on the 6th, but the event was more likely to happen since the name CPH was used to begin with. it's definitely not too out of the realm of the possible/likely, particularly since we don't know the scope of diaz/pak's conversation with cph on their first encounter. it was reported as a "chance" encounter, but i suspect that diaz/pak already knew about the suspicious call from a dr. from SG's mom on May 2nd/3rd. they went looking for her, and bumped into CPH on May 5th(?). when they discovered he was a doctor during that conversation, they asked him to call SG's mom/sister immediately. so in fact, there is potentially a high likelihood that CPH would have made that call on the 6th, or at least eventually.

Also, if you research SK, the first thing you would learn is that the real SK WOULD poke his head out and into the investigation, as they almost always do, especially given the opportunity.

- not so sure this is "always" the case, but i'll agree that it happens for sure. there are many unsolved SKs, and I assume many do not want to get caught.

You say that CPH was framed? Why did he say on camera that he wasn't? I would think someone framed for murder would know it and acknowledge it.

- good point. he very cleary denies ever making any statements about a halfway house or seeing SG when he called on the May 6th, and I believe him, but i think the "halfway house" call actually occurred way before the 6th by someone other than CPH. also, since he knows he's not guilty, why start saying that he's been framed in the media? i wouldn't, i would simply deny the allegation.

Finally, he looks guilty because he lied repeatedly. Do gooder isn't a phrase i would apply to someone guilty of multiple gross negligence cases aganst minors. Check the court docs, don't take my word for it

- i'm not familiar with the court docs you're talking about, but every doctor is afraid of lawsuits and carries malpractice insurance because they get sued all the time. doctors are just people so sometimes they do actually screw up. that said, i'll retract my "do-gooder" statement and insert "interested party".

...


"Do you happen to have a bionic appendage Inspector? .....go go gadget wooden leg?

- yes. "


Truthspider, what do you make of the burlap rug? How common are those?

"Do you happen to have a bionic appendage Inspector? .....go go gadget wooden leg? - yes. "

All I can say is, "Wowsers!". :great:

I feel like I have been on this forum since April just waiting for this moment. A true adversary at last. Now down to biz....

on your wounded fish analogy, i like it, it says a lot, it indeed would increase her likelihood of attracting attention... your theory is good in that it is close to the truth, just swapping out the bulls eye for a similar looking bulls eye. I think your fish analogy is the perfect statement to summarize this case and the SK's method of selection... interesting.

"-but i suspect that diaz/pak already knew about the suspicious call from a dr. from SG's mom on May 2nd/3rd. they went looking for her, and bumped into CPH on May 5th(?). ""
So diaz and pak knew this doctor to be a suspect on may 5th when they first went to oak beach then gave him SG's little teenage sisters cell phone number anyway? that contradiction will need some work if it is to stand up against cross examination.

"why start saying that he's been framed in the media? i wouldn't, i would simply deny the allegation."
he specifically denies being framed, when asked if he was framed.

"- not so sure this is "always" the case"
I am sure that it is not always the case, which is why i said "almost always"

"i'm not familiar with the court docs you're talking about, but every doctor is afraid of lawsuits and carries malpractice insurance because they get sued all the time."
which is exactly why we have the good samaritan law, to protect doctors, it is not easy to get a case heard when the doc is protected by this shield, but it happens, and happened to cph 2x. On top of that, the expert witness ruled against cph giving the claim extensive credibility. It's the details of the case that matter, every ER doc will have a suit eventually, but his is not everyone's case, it is very different and damaging.

if you private message me ur email, ill forward you the docs.

you are too intelligent to think the burlap rug has relevance...which makes me wonder why you bring it up multiple times...? They are quite common, but if someone had one in their house, then used it to dispose of bodies elsewhere, there would be a guarantee that the same burlap fibers would still exist a plenty inside the house. Not a move our methodical sk would make, if the rug was from his own house. But the MD house would have been empty by the time the bodies were moved. So his left behind burlap rug would be enticing to use as a "smoke screen" by the real SK, much like the earing placed at JBs just in time for the Gilberts arrival.

I don't believe in luck inspector, I deal strictly with probabilities, your theory still requires too many different improbable events("luck") transpiring together to be believable by me or a jury.


what do you think about the changing of the alibi from "the gilberts must have remembered his (CPH) name from their door to door walk" to "I got the number from pak and diaz" ? Why did this innocent party change their alibi?

 

[marie-chantal]

truth, I recall reading somewhere that JB contacted MP to arrange the date with Shannan. The details were in 'minutes' of a meeting there in OB. I think it was a pdf file. I'll try and find it for ya!

Has anyone been to the skeery LISK site lately and read the 'Sunday with Gus' article by JJ? Gus shared some info I had not heard before. He says JB is not one of his favorite people.....He says CPH was not in charge of the cameras, another neighbor, CS was and the cameras were 'wiped clean' but the hard drive was there and he (GC) turned it over to police......He also says if he had a choice that CPH would live next door to him in response to a question if CPH is a nice man.....he also said Shannan's leather jacket was over her shoulder when she came to his door.

Interesting....

wm

BBM...

Over her shoulder? Does that sound like someone running and acting frantically to anyone here? It certainly does not seem consistent with someone who was trying to flee and was frantically trying to get help. Over the shoulder sounds very casual to me. Try putting a jacket over your shoulder and running a few feet. In most cases, the jacket would be on the ground before you reached a stop. This is kind of a strange statement, IMO.

 

[PickleChris]

lad Reannan pointed out the doctors cph and dr. u likely knew each other. they almost certainly did in a small, private, tight knit community like oak beach, with an association and adult socials etc.

on top of that, there are multiple media reports stating that SG was called to a "party" the night/morning she disappeared. i would not call one person a party. i would not call two people gathered a party either. so at this point, i would not rule out dr. u, as he could have been at a "party" with JB, CPH, etc.

I have been told about the 'party' before and it was stated on the news just after the event. Now they had one of those 'talk to the experts' on a News 12 live chat a while ago. - I was all over that. Many of my questions were screened and were removed before they were displayed. One of the few that did make it through was my question about the 'party'....The so called expert assured me that there was no party, it was just JB and SG in the house and PAK was outside....There is no doubt in my mind there was a party - I had a friend that lived in the Gilgo community and some scary stuff used to go down there - several times a week.

I grew up in Massapequa and know that town really well...please keep the information rolling and I will hit the streets and ask.

 

[cog]

thanks for the protocol info truthspider. that makes perfect sense. any idea how the two parties involved in such a conversation would agree on price and location?



if i were SG's driver, and an intoxicated prostitute just called 911, i do not think i would want to be anywhere near there when the police arrived and explain my role in the incident. if i couldn't get her out of there quickly, i would wait for her to call me for a pick up.

True enough but, he did stop & speak to GC so he wasn't too worried I guess. None of it makes sense.

What took the police so long to respond?
Why is Pak riding around looking for Shannon then just leaving? I got the impression the reason he was looking was b/c of the money. Your response makes sense to me. Wait till she calls for a pickup. But, if she was wigged out, oh I don't know. LOL
Is it a common, known practice that "sex parties and or dates" are brought into the area? What did the association have to say about that? Is that why the John moved?
Questions and more questions. I'll keep reading and hope he is caught soon!!

 

[waltzingmatilda]

BBM...

Over her shoulder? Does that sound like someone running and acting frantically to anyone here? It certainly does not seem consistent with someone who was trying to flee and was frantically trying to get help. Over the shoulder sounds very casual to me. Try putting a jacket over your shoulder and running a few feet. In most cases, the jacket would be on the ground before you reached a stop. This is kind of a strange statement, IMO.

I thought so too, M_C. I have heard the jacket was left outside JB's and now GC says it was over her shoulder and I also heard the jacket has been lost. The varying stories about this leather jacket is :banghead:

True enough but, he did stop & speak to GC so he wasn't too worried I guess. None of it makes sense.

What took the police so long to respond?
Why is Pak riding around looking for Shannon then just leaving? I got the impression the reason he was looking was b/c of the money. Your response makes sense to me. Wait till she calls for a pickup. But, if she was wigged out, oh I don't know. LOL
Is it a common, known practice that "sex parties and or dates" are brought into the area? What did the association have to say about that? Is that why the John moved?
Questions and more questions. I'll keep reading and hope he is caught soon!!

Above respectfully BBM

I have wondered the very exact same thing, cog! I have been thinking that the reason MP was contacted to bring her to OB was because there was an expectation of Shannan being with multiple partners. I am suspicious of all the various stories that have been told by these men who have been interviewed. None of it adds up!

Pickle Chris, I look forward to hearing more about the OB parties. I know they happen. I was staying on a private island in NC about ten years ago with my now ex hubby and a group of friends who we were fishing with in a bluewater tourney. We won the fishing tourney and were celebrating at the rental home that evening. Alot of friends had stopped by to congratulate us and we ran out of ice. I noticed the house next door had lights on and appeared to have several golf carts parked out front (only golf carts are allowed on the island as the only way over is by ferry.) So I asked a friend if she'd walk over with me to see if they would give us some ice. Well, we walked in on a full fledge swinger party when a bossy madame like woman opened the door!!! Ya!!! We ran outta there so fast. 3 guys followed us back, they didn't know that there were six couples of us staying there and that our guys were physically fit and took exception to their aggressive behavior. The whole ordeal resulted in a darned fight breaking out complete with a damaged glass table and a couple of lamps broken.

We learned the next day that the house where the swinger party was going on was where the fire chief and his wife lived (she was the bossy one). One of the three pervs who followed us was an EMT on the island!!! I have never in my life felt like a piece of meat like I did that night. I have never felt more in danger either as it is spooky there at night and the houses are not really that close together and here is my friend and me running thru the darkness with 3 guys after us!

Apologies for the personal story but Shannan's ordeal reminds me of my own experience that night on Bald Head Island. Nothing surprises me anymore.

Anyway just MOO and all that jazz!

wm

OT If anyone is interested in reading about things that go on at BHI just visit www (dot) officerdavinabuffjones (dot) com. She was murdered just 4 months after the above described incident.

 

[marie-chantal]

I thought so too, M_C. I have heard the jacket was left outside JB's and now GC says it was over her shoulder and I also heard the jacket has been lost. The varying stories about this leather jacket is :banghead:




Above respectfully BBM

I have wondered the very exact same thing, cog! I have been thinking that the reason MP was contacted to bring her to OB was because there was an expectation of Shannan being with multiple partners. I am suspicious of all the various stories that have been told by these men who have been interviewed. None of it adds up!

Pickle Chris, I look forward to hearing more about the OB parties. I know they happen. I was staying on a private island in NC about ten years ago with my now ex hubby and a group of friends who we were fishing with in a bluewater tourney. We won the fishing tourney and were celebrating at the rental home that evening. Alot of friends had stopped by to congratulate us and we ran out of ice. I noticed the house next door had lights on and appeared to have several golf carts parked out front (only golf carts are allowed on the island as the only way over is by ferry.) So I asked a friend if she'd walk over with me to see if they would give us some ice. Well, we walked in on a full fledge swinger party when a bossy madame like woman opened the door!!! Ya!!! We ran outta there so fast. 3 guys followed us back, they didn't know that there were six couples of us staying there and that our guys were physically fit and took exception to their aggressive behavior. The whole ordeal resulted in a darned fight breaking out complete with a damaged glass table and a couple of lamps broken.

We learned the next day that the house where the swinger party was going on was where the fire chief and his wife lived (she was the bossy one). One of the three pervs who followed us was an EMT on the island!!! I have never in my life felt like a piece of meat like I did that night. I have never felt more in danger either as it is spooky there at night and the houses are not really that close together and here is my friend and me running thru the darkness with 3 guys after us!

Apologies for the personal story but Shannan's ordeal reminds me of my own experience that night on Bald Head Island. Nothing surprises me anymore.

Anyway just MOO and all that jazz!

wm

OT If anyone is interested in reading about things that go on at BHI just visit www (dot) officerdavinabuffjones (dot) com. She was murdered just 4 months after the above described incident.

OMG...that is so creepy and disgusting! I'm so sorry you had to deal with that. It's weird that they chased you. Something illegal must have been happening in that house. Or maybe they were just embarrassed since they were people who worked in respectable jobs and were afraid they'd be outed for being swingers. Either way...very scary. If it's true that there was indeed a party going on at JB's house that night, then maybe they were afraid Shannan would 'out' them? This doesn't seem very plausible though, if many people in the community seem to be aware of the weird goings-on at that house (ie-they wouldn't care so much about being outed as swingers). They would be concerned about having their cover blown if they were up to some seriously illegal things, though.

 

[da fino]

True enough but, he did stop & speak to GC so he wasn't too worried I guess. None of it makes sense.

What took the police so long to respond?
Why is Pak riding around looking for Shannon then just leaving? I got the impression the reason he was looking was b/c of the money. Your response makes sense to me. Wait till she calls for a pickup. But, if she was wigged out, oh I don't know. LOL
Is it a common, known practice that "sex parties and or dates" are brought into the area? What did the association have to say about that? Is that why the John moved?
Questions and more questions. I'll keep reading and hope he is caught soon!!

according to GC, she was hiding under his boat. not sure if MP realized this, but also according to GC, he told MP that he had called the police at that point. this time, MP would have realized the police have an address and a second call to 911. in fact, GC told MP to wait here. he opted not too and bounced.

 

[Theforeigner]

When Colletti told Pak he rang the police, Pak said, “You shouldn’t have done that, she’s going to be in trouble now”

Now, IMO the real mystery is that Shannan at this point had already called 911while at Brewers house and was on the phone with police for 20+ minutes and if Pak, as he claimed, was in Brewers house to get Shannan he would have known that she had aready been on the 911 phone.

SO! WHY is he now telling Colletti:

“You shouldn’t have done that, she’s going to be in trouble now”.”

IMO either Colletti is lying, OR Michael Pak was never in the house to get Shannan, or some 3rd odd explanation to this strange issue, and what could that be?

 

[marie-chantal]

When Colletti told Pak he rang the police, Pak said, “You shouldn’t have done that, she’s going to be in trouble now”

Now, IMO he real mystery is that Shannan at this point had already called 911while at Brewers house and was on the phone with police for 20+ minutes and if Pak, as he claimed, was in Brewers house to get Shannan he would have known that she had aready been on the 911 phone.

SO! WHY is he now telling Colletti:

“You shouldn’t have done that, she’s going to be in trouble now”.”

IMO either Colletti is lying, OR Michael Pak was never in the house to get Shannan, or some 3rd odd explanation to this strange issue, and what could that be?

BBM

The only thing I can think of is that he meant she'd be in trouble for prostitution when the police arrived if they found out why she was at JB's house in the first place. This may also be why he left the scene-afraid of being busted for aiding and abetting in prostitution. I still think he's suspicious though.

MOO

 

[inspctrgadget]

Truthspider, here's my reply...

"So diaz and pak knew this doctor to be a suspect on may 5th when they first went to oak beach then gave him SG's little teenage sisters cell phone number anyway? that contradiction will need some work if it is to stand up against cross examination."

- i believe diaz and pak met CPH for the first time on May 3rd. "On May 3, the boyfriend and the driver returned to Oak Beach in search of Gilbert and checked local beaches and area hospitals, according to the driver." At this point, they traded contact info with CPH. From CPH's letter: "they asked that I call the family." This would imply that they did indeed provide both contact numbers, and providing the sister's number as a secondary contact isn't crazy, it's prudent. But you're right - if they did know about the "halfway house" call at this point, it would be odd to give out the sister's number - but even if they did know about the "halfway house" call, it's still not too crazy to give out family contact info and request a call. this was still a missing persons case at this point. but your comment made me think - the real SK could have seen, heard of or otherwise suspected the interaction of pak/diaz/CPH and then made the "Halfway House" call to subside/delay/befuddle the potential further investigation by the family/driver. It seems CPH did NOT initially call the family after the 3rd but called only after a phone discussion with Diaz on the 6th, probably because the "Halfway House" call occurred sometime between the 3rd and the 5th (after which Diaz called CPH using his "calling card", CPH returned the call and Diaz asked that he call SG's mom immediately. This was a brief call that probably confused SG's mom more than anything. She returned on the 9th and tried to clear things up, but at this point everything was hopelessly befuddled.



"why start saying that he's been framed in the media? i wouldn't, i would simply deny the allegation."
he specifically denies being framed, when asked if he was framed.

- it's not a frame job, which would take much more planning - it seems to me that this (the halfway house call) was a snow job to confuse, delay, misguide, misdirect. i would like to see them ask "is it possible that someone else called and pretended that they were you", (to which he would say yes) and then follow-up with "please make a list of everyone that you know in OB capable of making such a call".



you are too intelligent to think the burlap rug has relevance...which makes me wonder why you bring it up multiple times...?

- you're right, i'm definitely grasping here. but it goes towards probable cause for a search, which can be based on circumstantial information based on my understanding (i.e., AWOL in Europe, penchant for burlap, proximity to last known location). i've never even seen a burlap rug in my life, so it stands out to me.



I don't believe in luck inspector, I deal strictly with probabilities, your theory still requires too many different improbable events("luck") transpiring together to be believable by me or a jury.

- i deal in probabilities too, but life is stranger than fiction sometimes. and all bets are off when we're dealing with a cunning SK. i also think that i have reasonably addressed the ridiculous or amazing coincidences you mentioned, so now we're just talking about a series of sequential, interrelated events. For this case, a jury will only be convinced by DNA or other damning physical evidence, IMO.



what do you think about the changing of the alibi from "the gilberts must have remembered his (CPH) name from their door to door walk" to "I got the number from pak and diaz" ? Why did this innocent party change their alibi?

- the former comment was an off-the-cuff comment, and at the time he may have had poor recollection, like many of us. he changed his story b/c he and his wife sat down with the phone bills and they made an effort to recall the exact events, timeline, etc. that's not suspicious to me.

 

[Redbird]

It has been rumored that CPH and Pak have been seen together on more than one occasion in OB unrelated to the search for SG. I suspect that rumor is true and that Pak may have been supplying girls for Oak Beach parties for years, long before he knew SG. That was the reason I was trying to find more information. He has certainly managed to fly under the radar so far in this case. I do not believe for a minute that anyone would have given an adult stranger, particularly a male stranger, the phone number of a teenage girl whose sister was missing, particularly when the mother was available. Particularly since Pak was himself suspect and would have wanted to stay as far away from the Gilberts and any interaction with the Gilberts as possible.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

OMG...that is so creepy and disgusting! I'm so sorry you had to deal with that. It's weird that they chased you. Something illegal must have been happening in that house. Or maybe they were just embarrassed since they were people who worked in respectable jobs and were afraid they'd be outed for being swingers. Either way...very scary. If it's true that there was indeed a party going on at JB's house that night, then maybe they were afraid Shannan would 'out' them? This doesn't seem very plausible though, if many people in the community seem to be aware of the weird goings-on at that house (ie-they wouldn't care so much about being outed as swingers). They would be concerned about having their cover blown if they were up to some seriously illegal things, though.

The thing that bothers me m-c is that Shannan took a big risk by fleeing and going for help as she could have been arrested for prostitution. I believe something happened in that house that REALLY frightened her.

I don't know these people in that OB neighborhood, yet I don't believe the story that's being told by any of these men. They are all protecting their own interests IMO. As we have all seen all too often in the cases we follow here at WS, the fault is projected onto the victim....she is bipolar...she uses drugs...she is hysterical. Shannan was very smart and a tough cookie toboot. She had enough wits about her to flee and find a house with the lights on to ask for help. But she flees when GC calls 911. Why?

We know MP is a convicted felon for using a false passport to smuggle a woman from China(?) into the states. Was she afraid of being sold into human trafficking?

Then we have JB, separated from his wife, saying he thought Shannan was a man. They didn't have sex! WTH! I call BS!!!
As my dear Grannny (RIP) would say, "Thar aint nothin 'bout Shannan that looks like no man!"

Then we have CPH and his many conflicting statements along with access to prescription drugs.

And I don't for a minute trust a word from Alex Diaz.

At least GC dialed 911. But he thinks she went into the water. And wasn't he the one who stated to the news media, "I'll tell you anything but just don't ask me to rat on my neighbors." (paraphrased) Is he afraid too?

Something about the 3 way call between Diaz, Pak and Hackett bothers me. My personal opinion is that the calls and the 'meeting' for Pak and Diaz to look for Shannan after her disappearance was really just a ruse for everyone to get their collective stories straight, IMO.

This is all mind boggling:crazy: but something is hinky in the OB neighborhood. They sound like a bunch of college kids covering each others butts and making up stories. I think something illegal was going on there that night and it wasn't just simple solicitation of a prostitute, or innocently driving a female to a party by MP as hired by the john, JB.

So many thoughts and questions........

wm

 

[svpernin]

The thing that bothers me m-c is that Shannan took a big risk by fleeing and going for help as she could have been arrested for prostitution. I believe something happened in that house that REALLY frightened her.

I don't know these people in that OB neighborhood, yet I don't believe the story that's being told by any of these men. They are all protecting their own interests IMO. As we have all seen all too often in the cases we follow here at WS, the fault is projected onto the victim....she is bipolar...she uses drugs...she is hysterical. Shannan was very smart and a tough cookie toboot. She had enough wits about her to flee and find a house with the lights on to ask for help. But she flees when GC calls 911. Why?

We know MP is a convicted felon for using a false passport to smuggle a woman from China(?) into the states. Was she afraid of being sold into human trafficking?

Then we have JB, separated from his wife, saying he thought Shannan was a man. They didn't have sex! WTH! I call BS!!!
As my dear Grannny (RIP) would say, "Thar aint nothin 'bout Shannan that looks like no man!"

Then we have CPH and his many conflicting statements along with access to prescription drugs.

And I don't for a minute trust a word from Alex Diaz.

At least GC dialed 911. But he thinks she went into the water. And wasn't he the one who stated to the news media, "I'll tell you anything but just don't ask me to rat on my neighbors." (paraphrased) Is he afraid too?

Something about the 3 way call between Diaz, Pak and Hackett bothers me. My personal opinion is that the calls and the 'meeting' for Pak and Diaz to look for Shannan after her disappearance was really just a ruse for everyone to get their collective stories straight, IMO.

This is all mind boggling:crazy: but something is hinky in the OB neighborhood. They sound like a bunch of college kids covering each others butts and making up stories. I think something illegal was going on there that night and it wasn't just simple solicitation of a prostitute, or innocently driving a female to a party by MP as hired by the john, JB.

So many thoughts and questions........

wm

My thoughts exactly, wm! I'm so bothered by people saying Shannan was just hysterical and high... the fact of the matter is that no one has seen her since that night and 9-10 bodies were found nearby (at least 5 of which were also young, female escorts). To me, those are strong indicators that Shannan was in REAL danger and she knew it!

I believe GC's account of what happened (and by no means do I think he was involved) but I do think he seems like he is withholding something. I can't really figure out what's going on with him since he seems to be very willing to give interviews so he can't be THAT afraid. My only guess is that he has heard rumors around Oak Beach (I'll bet there is A LOT of talk going on in those parts) that implicate his neighbors and it either leads him to believe he is in danger or he doesn't want to repeat the theories and talk badly about his neighbors without any solid proof (small community loyalty...though he didn't mind mentioning his disdain for JB) so he just sugarcoats everything (i.e. Shannan drowned, I wish CPH lived next door to me). JMO.