NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #6

[whywhywhy]

I thought this was an interesting article.. Kinda creepy.

'Angels' of a devil: Women slain in Atlantic City, Long Island show up on Facebook

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/l...ity__Long_Island_show_up_on_Facebook.html?c=r

 

[Lera213]

O/T Rant

I hate it when msm picks up on something we've sleuthed! The minute they do, you reach a dead end on that line of sleuthing, because the only thing that comes up in a search are links to the msm articles. They've already killed 2 avenues I was persuing. Drives me NUTS!

End of rant, and back to mapping, I guess.

It is called Lazy reporting. They know this board is where to get people to do their investigating work for them!

They sit at home or office and just read and follow our links. When they have enough...the hurry and write it down, then give it to their editor, Editor pats them on the back.

Don't worry, these type of reporters don't get far because once they have to rely on their own skills...they are knee deep in poo. :floorlaugh:

 

[Soulmagent]

I thought this was an interesting article.. Kinda creepy.

'Angels' of a devil: Women slain in Atlantic City, Long Island show up on Facebook

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/l...ity__Long_Island_show_up_on_Facebook.html?c=r

That is just odd, Why someone would want to take time to set up all the emails and profiles and friend the with eachother just to upset people is completely beyond me.

What is up with the title ? These woman are not any devils angels, They are their mothers babies ,and their babies mothers and they are sisters and friends. They were loved and cared about though out their lives and still.

 

[snapdragon2]

Agree. Also, JB could have been embarrassed about how long SG was there. Just because he reduced the time she was there in the interview, doesn't mean he killed her! If JB was trying to kill her, I don't know why he would have allowed her to get dressed. Looks like she would have been more vulnerable without her clothes and less able to get away with no shoes.

<modsnip> I'm not saying he's guilty - I don't know, and I try to keep an open mind, but the purpose of this site is to toss around ideas and brainstorm and examine things, and the circumstances of Shannon's visit to his house ARE peculiar - put in the simplest way: a woman runs screaming from a man's house saying she is in danger of being killed, subsequently disappears & 9 bodies are found in that very area. What are your alternate theories about this (that is- what happened in his house.) I am interested to know. <modsnip> It is just as important to look at plausible theories that would support someone's innocence, and I'm sure everyone is interested in hearing some of those. <modsnip>

 

[Mountain_Kat]

http://bayridgejournal.blogspot.com/2011/01/body-dump-at-gilgo-beach.html

Excellent article.

I question some of the information given, though. Can someone please confirm these statements for me?

Melissa Barthelmy, a 24-year-old from Buffalo last seen in the Bronx on July 12, 2009, when she got a call from Massapequa, L.I.,

I never read that SHE got a call from Masspequa. I've read that her sister got a call from Massapequa on MB's phone, allegedly from the SK. But I don't recall reading that MB got a call from that area prior to going missing. Important info, if true. But how would anyone know she got that call, if her cellphone is missing? I'm confused.

The first body found, just steps from the parkway and 40 miles southeast of the Bronx, was that of Melissa Barthlemy.

I thought Megan Waterman was the first body found.

Brewer, who has been questioned numerous times, admitted that Gilbert was in his house for several hours, but said she "became agitated" and "ran out" after he "coaxed her to leave". The results of a lie detector test were inconclusive.

First I've ever heard of ldt being inconclusive. Does anyone have a link to any other msm report that confirms this?

TIA

 

[svpernin]

http://bayridgejournal.blogspot.com/2011/01/body-dump-at-gilgo-beach.html

Excellent article.

I question some of the information given, though. Can someone please confirm these statements for me?

Melissa Barthelmy, a 24-year-old from Buffalo last seen in the Bronx on July 12, 2009, when she got a call from Massapequa, L.I.,

I never read that SHE got a call from Masspequa. I've read that her sister got a call from Massapequa on MB's phone, allegedly from the SK. But I don't recall reading that MB got a call from that area prior to going missing. Important info, if true. But how would anyone know she got that call, if her cellphone is missing? I'm confused.

The first body found, just steps from the parkway and 40 miles southeast of the Bronx, was that of Melissa Barthlemy.

I thought Megan Waterman was the first body found.

Brewer, who has been questioned numerous times, admitted that Gilbert was in his house for several hours, but said she "became agitated" and "ran out" after he "coaxed her to leave". The results of a lie detector test were inconclusive.

First I've ever heard of ldt being inconclusive. Does anyone have a link to any other msm report that confirms this?

TIA

Hmm, I never heard that bit about the phone call either. I'm not sure that's correct. I know I heard her VM was accessed from Massapequa the night she disappeared.

As for the order the bodies were found, I think Melissa was found first but Megan was id'ed first.

I've heard JB's lie detector was inconclusive but I'm not sure if that's true either. How can they dismiss someone as a suspect in a case like this if their lie detector was inconclusive? This case is so frustrating.

 

[kemo]

We know that both Megan and Amber were "picked up" by their fatal last "date". This arrangement would provide anonymity for the Perp who wouldn't have to reveal his address and wouldn't be seen by anyone who knew the victim. My understanding is that this is somewhat unusual. According to many SK's of prostitutes, the "dates" that result in murder are the exception and these men were regular "punters" who were often well know by the girls they hired. SK's often turn out to be "regulars" who were know and trusted. This pattern would apply to both Rifkin and Shuman, the two LI SK's. The "date" that Amber accepted for $1500 was unusual both in the high pay and the "pick up". This sounds like the killing was planned; if we can believe the roommate/boyfriend/pimp. I suspect that there was something a little "hinkey" about the arrangement that caused the perp to "up the offer" (which he wouldn't have to pay anyway). I wonder if any other LI/NY online sex workers had requests that they be "picked up" that for whatever reason they did not accept. Perhaps they just had a "bad feeling".

SG's last "date", which was probably fatal, does not fit this pattern. She was to provide her own transportation and the pay was apparently in line with accepted practices. The John may have expected her to arrive alone but it would have required him to give his address and, if he planned to kill her, her car would have been seen by neighbors and would then have to be disposed of. We don't know what happened that night but I don't think it was expected to go down the way Megan and Amber did.

SG is perhaps really a mystery within a mystery. LE knows more about the night than they are telling us. Is it possible that, in her panicked state, she called one of her "regulars" who lived in the area and he came and "rescued" her and realized he had an untraceable situation?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Hmm, I never heard that bit about the phone call either. I'm not sure that's correct. I know I heard her VM was accessed from Massapequa the night she disappeared.

As for the order the bodies were found, I think Melissa was found first but Megan was id'ed first.

I've heard JB's lie detector was inconclusive but I'm not sure if that's true either. How can they dismiss someone as a suspect in a case like this if their lie detector was inconclusive? This case is so frustrating.

VM is voice mail, yes? You wouldn't happen to have a link to that info, would you?

ETA: Nevermind, I found it. Here's the link to that info if others want to check it out.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20029621-504083.html

I find that VERY interesting! Thanks for pointing that out to me, Svpernin!

 

[snapdragon2]

Not sure if this has been posted but I was reading some old articles and found this comment supposedly from SGs mom after a 12/14/2010 article on CNN.com:

Guest
I am Shannan's mother. A lot of what was on Nancy Grace tonight was VERY WRONG from the length of the 991, a ritualistic killing, to having no suspect. I and I repeat - I revieled the 911 call in the first place channel 7 news. I know who she was running from, and so do the police. I know he did kill them all, and I know her boyfriend is in FEAR to speak of what he knows but he WAS NOT INVOLVED - she was 23 years old NOT 24- so much on her Nancy's show was wrong. But oh well - I can not control bull crap. All I know is Shannan was a wonderful daughter, a great sister, a proud aunt, a good friend, and doing drugs was a way to not think of what she was doing - until the day she tried to leave the life and she npayed with her life. Many, many woman and men are still out there afraid to escape - because this is what happens when you try. Love for a child is unconditional - afterall. And aftyerall - until the results are in it may not even be my daughter. HE WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE less.

If posted before my apologies, I don't remember seeing it.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/12/13/new.yok.bodies/

Just throwing out more ideas, trying to think of all possibilities:

So let's just say JB was not involved, but that Shannon's disappearance and behaviour that night are in fact linked to the murdered women. What other possibilities are there?

Let's just take a look at it being the driver. Why would he dump 4 bodies in that particular area? Anything plausible?

What if he chose the area for 2 reasons: 1) it is in fact desolate, etc. - serves his purposes in that regard 2) as a driver, perhaps he had brought escorts to JB's house in the past, and so not only happened upon this particular area which served his purposes, but in fact might have thought dumping the bodies of murdered prostitutes close to where a john lived might not be a bad idea. The latter may be a bit of a stretch - I'm not saying at all that it would be a set-up (there's no indication of that after all, and the bodies where not intended to be discovered) but if he is as clever as profilers seem to think, it might just have crossed his mind it wouldn't hurt to do that.

Could he have intended to make Shannon a victim after her call - if it was looked into, the fact that she was at a client's right before disappearing would throw suspicion away from him, and of course he would have opportunity, since she would trust him and he would have her alone, and close to his dumping ground.

-This would explain why she didn't want to leave JB's.
(Although it would not explain why the driver would admit she said she didn't want to leave JB's!)
-It would explain why she didn't run to her driver for protection after running from the house, which one would expect her to do.
-it would explain who the man in the SUV was (and she was apparently afraid of that person, since she is described as hiding behind or under a boat and then running from him when he saw her.) This could not be JB because the neighbour would of course recognize him.
-It would still be a curious plan, however, since her disappearing after he took her somewhere would still put him in the line of suspicion, and he wouldn't want that, unless he was so confident and cocky he didn't worry about that.
-Her dna would already be in his car, so that wouldn't be a worry.
-Shannon's sister, in the radio interview, when asked if she met the driver to talk about Shannon's disappearance, said she was too nervous to do that. However, she did got to JB's house - she wasn't too nervous to do that. That was before she heard the 911 tape (or was told what was on it, or even that it existed) so it doesn't necessarily mean anything that the driver creeped her out at that point, but then again, maybe she got a vibe or knew some other stuff about him that made her nervous.
-two of the murdered women disappeared AFTER Shannon. It would be peculiar (although not out of question) that JB would dump 2 more bodies in that area if he were guilty AFTER what happened with Shannon, (although a cockiness might not preclude such a choice, especially since no-one seemed to be paying much attention to what happened at that point.) However, the driver might still do it, especially since JB was already in the spotlight with Shannon's disappearance (which he wouldn't have planned but would serve his purposes if the bodies were found.)
-it would explain why the family seems to know the name of who Shannon was running from
-it would explain why he said he just left her there - because in reality, I can't imagine a driver doing that
-It would still beg the question: what happened in the house to make Shannon suddenly afraid of the driver, as obviously she was not afraid before that or she wouldn't have gone there with him

I wonder what their history was prior to this. I also wonder - although it might not really matter, but still just wondering: he said he was playing online poker waiting for her. Can that sort of thing be checked? (Not to say that if he was planning to kill her after her visit to JB's, he wouldn't be playing online poker. Still, it would be interesting to know if he was truthful because when people lie it just raises a red flag - can't hurt to check out everything someone says in a case like that.)

I hope it doesn't sound completely detached when I talk about this - I don't mean any disrespect to Shannon or the murdered women, because in fact I am outraged by all of this and am angry and saddened by what happened to them. That is in fact why I am so intent upon finding out who did this.

Anyway, I'm hope this makes some sense - I'm not saying I believe it, I'm just trying to think of any plausible alternatives that would take into consideration the "coincidence" of Shannon's behaviour that night, disappearance and the discovery of murdered women in the area. It is the only thing I can currently think of that might be an alternative to JB, assuming these things are no coincidence.

It might also explain why the driver is not named in the media or by the police (although I know JB was not named by the police either.) I do believe however that the driver is EE (as previously suggested by another poster - can't remember who, sorry!) I would think if the police thought he might be the suspect, they wouldn't want media converging on him, etc.

Any thoughts on all of this?! I'm just racking my brain, that's all!

 

[KAYTOM]

We know that both Megan and Amber were "picked up" by their fatal last "date". This arrangement would provide anonymity for the Perp who wouldn't have to reveal his address and wouldn't be seen by anyone who knew the victim. My understanding is that this is somewhat unusual. According to many SK's of prostitutes, the "dates" that result in murder are the exception and these men were regular "punters" who were often well know by the girls they hired. SK's often turn out to be "regulars" who were know and trusted. This pattern would apply to both Rifkin and Shuman, the two LI SK's. The "date" that Amber accepted for $1500 was unusual both in the high pay and the "pick up". This sounds like the killing was planned; if we can believe the roommate/boyfriend/pimp. I suspect that there was something a little "hinkey" about the arrangement that caused the perp to "up the offer" (which he wouldn't have to pay anyway). I wonder if any other LI/NY online sex workers had requests that they be "picked up" that for whatever reason they did not accept. Perhaps they just had a "bad feeling".

SG's last "date", which was probably fatal, does not fit this pattern. She was to provide her own transportation and the pay was apparently in line with accepted practices. The John may have expected her to arrive alone but it would have required him to give his address and, if he planned to kill her, her car would have been seen by neighbors and would then have to be disposed of. We don't know what happened that night but I don't think it was expected to go down the way Megan and Amber did.

SG is perhaps really a mystery within a mystery. LE knows more about the night than they are telling us. Is it possible that, in her panicked state, she called one of her "regulars" who lived in the area and he came and "rescued" her and realized he had an untraceable situation?

I came across a post on Utopiaguide where the girls were talking about taking last minute calls and what others consensus was.

"last minute calls" might be a keyword you can search out.

On a related note, I looked through the NY Sex offender sight a bit. Right now the details are too few for it to be of use, but I did see a few that were charged w/ rape of 20-25 year old that choked the victim. If I remember right, one is even from Manorville.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

One of the things I do, wrt mapping, is to look for patterns. You almost always find them...it's something a killer can't disguise. He works where he works, he lives where he lives, he frequents the places he frequents. It's part of who he is. Anyway, while mapping known locations on my map, I noticed a pattern. It's a loop route. Right dead center of the upper part of the loop is Massapequa. So I started to look at businesses our SK might frequent in or very near Massapequa. There's a cluster of strip clubs near there. Melissa Barthelemy had worked as an exotic dancer. So, did she at any time work at one of the strip clubs in this cluster? My guess is yes. Could she have met our SK not through Craigslist, but through the strip club or connections she made there? My guess is also yes. Did she? I don't know...but she certainly COULD have.

JMO

 

[epiphany]

http://bayridgejournal.blogspot.com/2011/01/body-dump-at-gilgo-beach.html

Excellent article.

I question some of the information given, though. Can someone please confirm these statements for me?

Melissa Barthelmy, a 24-year-old from Buffalo last seen in the Bronx on July 12, 2009, when she got a call from Massapequa, L.I.,

I never read that SHE got a call from Masspequa. I've read that her sister got a call from Massapequa on MB's phone, allegedly from the SK. But I don't recall reading that MB got a call from that area prior to going missing. Important info, if true. But how would anyone know she got that call, if her cellphone is missing? I'm confused.

The first body found, just steps from the parkway and 40 miles southeast of the Bronx, was that of Melissa Barthlemy.

I thought Megan Waterman was the first body found.

Brewer, who has been questioned numerous times, admitted that Gilbert was in his house for several hours, but said she "became agitated" and "ran out" after he "coaxed her to leave". The results of a lie detector test were inconclusive.

First I've ever heard of ldt being inconclusive. Does anyone have a link to any other msm report that confirms this?

TIA

Bay Ridge Journal is not MSM. My impression has always been this online Brooklyn-based journal is a blog-a well written one, but nevertheless a blog. The blogger appears to read and/or research articles in MSM about the case, and then posts her/his entry. While I do read the blog, unless the author links, cites, states or references where the info is from, I do not take all of the author's statements as absolute fact.

 

[Secret77]

"Bones were found in the water off of Oak Beach, and the physician's assistant will make a determination on whether or not they're human," Miros Kroupa, spokeswoman for the Suffolk County Police Department, said Sunday.

More at link: http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/04/18/new.york.bodies/index.html?hpt=T2

The water bit was a typo, and it has been corrected on CNN's website.
No bones were found in the water.

 

[epiphany]

SG was last sighted between 5 and 6 AM by a number of witnesses. She wouldn't have been there overnight unless she hid and passed out and remained there all day. Is the report credible that she was pulled into a black truck at the end of her 911 call?

Respectfully, BBM

I'm curious, too. I think we picked this tidbit up from a family member who heard SG's last 911 call, but I'm not even sure now. I haven't read this reported anywhere, but would also like to know where this info came from. If it's credible, then SG could not have drowned.

 

[Nancysleuth]

Just throwing out more ideas, trying to think of all possibilities:

So let's just say JB was not involved, but that Shannon's disappearance and behaviour that night are in fact linked to the murdered women. What other possibilities are there?

Let's just take a look at it being the driver. Why would he dump 4 bodies in that particular area? Anything plausible?

What if he chose the area for 2 reasons: 1) it is in fact desolate, etc. - serves his purposes in that regard 2) as a driver, perhaps he had brought escorts to JB's house in the past, and so not only happened upon this particular area which served his purposes, but in fact might have thought dumping the bodies of murdered prostitutes close to where a john lived might not be a bad idea. The latter may be a bit of a stretch - I'm not saying at all that it would be a set-up (there's no indication of that after all, and the bodies where not intended to be discovered) but if he is as clever as profilers seem to think, it might just have crossed his mind it wouldn't hurt to do that.

Could he have intended to make Shannon a victim after her call - if it was looked into, the fact that she was at a client's right before disappearing would throw suspicion away from him, and of course he would have opportunity, since she would trust him and he would have her alone, and close to his dumping ground.

-This would explain why she didn't want to leave JB's.
(Although it would not explain why the driver would admit she said she didn't want to leave JB's!)
-It would explain why she didn't run to her driver for protection after running from the house, which one would expect her to do.
-it would explain who the man in the SUV was (and she was apparently afraid of that person, since she is described as hiding behind or under a boat and then running from him when he saw her.) This could not be JB because the neighbour would of course recognize him.
-It would still be a curious plan, however, since her disappearing after he took her somewhere would still put him in the line of suspicion, and he wouldn't want that, unless he was so confident and cocky he didn't worry about that.
-Her dna would already be in his car, so that wouldn't be a worry.
-Shannon's sister, in the radio interview, when asked if she met the driver to talk about Shannon's disappearance, said she was too nervous to do that. However, she did got to JB's house - she wasn't too nervous to do that. That was before she heard the 911 tape (or was told what was on it, or even that it existed) so it doesn't necessarily mean anything that the driver creeped her out at that point, but then again, maybe she got a vibe or knew some other stuff about him that made her nervous.
-two of the murdered women disappeared AFTER Shannon. It would be peculiar (although not out of question) that JB would dump 2 more bodies in that area if he were guilty AFTER what happened with Shannon, (although a cockiness might not preclude such a choice, especially since no-one seemed to be paying much attention to what happened at that point.) However, the driver might still do it, especially since JB was already in the spotlight with Shannon's disappearance (which he wouldn't have planned but would serve his purposes if the bodies were found.)
-it would explain why the family seems to know the name of who Shannon was running from
-it would explain why he said he just left her there - because in reality, I can't imagine a driver doing that
-It would still beg the question: what happened in the house to make Shannon suddenly afraid of the driver, as obviously she was not afraid before that or she wouldn't have gone there with him

I wonder what their history was prior to this. I also wonder - although it might not really matter, but still just wondering: he said he was playing online poker waiting for her. Can that sort of thing be checked? (Not to say that if he was planning to kill her after her visit to JB's, he wouldn't be playing online poker. Still, it would be interesting to know if he was truthful because when people lie it just raises a red flag - can't hurt to check out everything someone says in a case like that.)

I hope it doesn't sound completely detached when I talk about this - I don't mean any disrespect to Shannon or the murdered women, because in fact I am outraged by all of this and am angry and saddened by what happened to them. That is in fact why I am so intent upon finding out who did this.

Anyway, I'm hope this makes some sense - I'm not saying I believe it, I'm just trying to think of any plausible alternatives that would take into consideration the "coincidence" of Shannon's behaviour that night, disappearance and the discovery of murdered women in the area. It is the only thing I can currently think of that might be an alternative to JB, assuming these things are no coincidence.

It might also explain why the driver is not named in the media or by the police (although I know JB was not named by the police either.) I do believe however that the driver is EE (as previously suggested by another poster - can't remember who, sorry!) I would think if the police thought he might be the suspect, they wouldn't want media converging on him, etc.

Any thoughts on all of this?! I'm just racking my brain, that's all!

It's so hard to say because I don't think we have all the (honest) facts about what happened at the end of Shannan's night. I agree the drivers story is a little suspicous.

There are two main points that don't add up for me. The first being that the 'dump site' is located so close to JB's house. Seems a little too coincidental to me that he killed her right after he left a house located next to his dump site. Sure, he could have driven girls there before but it just doesn't really add up to me.

The second is the fact that Shannan fled the house. If JB was totally innocent, wouldn't she have had the time to call the police, give them his exact address and wait 5 or 10 minutes for them to arrive. The fact JB had to call the driver (how did he even have Shannan's driver's number?) and ask the driver to come just doesn't make a lot of sense. I've read in numerous sources that the john picked up Shannan at another location and drove her to his house himself and that the driver waited outside the gate. So, why, if she had so much space from the driver wouldn't she have been able to escape from him.

 

[Secret77]

Maybe because he is already in jail:

http://www.northjersey.com/news/051..._for_human_trafficking_prostitution_ring.html

That's impossible.
The person in the article was convicted on May 2010.
The last SK victim disappeared on Sept. 2, 2010.

 

[NJGuy]

One of the things I do, wrt mapping, is to look for patterns. You almost always find them...it's something a killer can't disguise. He works where he works, he lives where he lives, he frequents the places he frequents. It's part of who he is. Anyway, while mapping known locations on my map, I noticed a pattern. It's a loop route. Right dead center of the upper part of the loop is Massapequa. So I started to look at businesses our SK might frequent in or very near Massapequa. There's a cluster of strip clubs near there. Melissa Barthelemy had worked as an exotic dancer. So, did she at any time work at one of the strip clubs in this cluster? My guess is yes. Could she have met our SK not through Craigslist, but through the strip club or connections she made there? My guess is also yes. Did she? I don't know...but she certainly COULD have.

JMO

Mountain Kat, I am inclined to agree with your line of thinking, a lot of info can be obtained through looking at things geographically. I have some questions for you if you don't mind,

Have you placed dates and times along with the geographical points on the map? Also, did you include the phone calls to all victims as well, particularly with MB? And did you include SG in the geography?

I'd be very interested to see what you came up with
Thanks

 

[Secret77]

Melissa Barthelemy left the Hauppauge hotel at 1:30 am after her pimp got a call--you know what the caller said? The same thing he told ALCs pimp.."I'm up the block, tell her to come out" The Hauppauge hotel is a known hotel for escorts to host Incalls--buy yet there she was going on an outcall, alone.

interesting, as far as i've read, MB's BF/ Pimp wasn't on site (hotel) when she left to meet the SK.
do you have any links that confirm your statement that the SK called MB's PF / Pimp directly?

Thanks

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Just throwing out more ideas, trying to think of all possibilities:

So let's just say JB was not involved, but that Shannon's disappearance and behaviour that night are in fact linked to the murdered women. What other possibilities are there?

Let's just take a look at it being the driver. Why would he dump 4 bodies in that particular area? Anything plausible?

What if he chose the area for 2 reasons: 1) it is in fact desolate, etc. - serves his purposes in that regard 2) as a driver, perhaps he had brought escorts to JB's house in the past, and so not only happened upon this particular area which served his purposes, but in fact might have thought dumping the bodies of murdered prostitutes close to where a john lived might not be a bad idea. The latter may be a bit of a stretch - I'm not saying at all that it would be a set-up (there's no indication of that after all, and the bodies where not intended to be discovered) but if he is as clever as profilers seem to think, it might just have crossed his mind it wouldn't hurt to do that.

Could he have intended to make Shannon a victim after her call - if it was looked into, the fact that she was at a client's right before disappearing would throw suspicion away from him, and of course he would have opportunity, since she would trust him and he would have her alone, and close to his dumping ground.

-This would explain why she didn't want to leave JB's.
(Although it would not explain why the driver would admit she said she didn't want to leave JB's!)
-It would explain why she didn't run to her driver for protection after running from the house, which one would expect her to do.
-it would explain who the man in the SUV was (and she was apparently afraid of that person, since she is described as hiding behind or under a boat and then running from him when he saw her.) This could not be JB because the neighbour would of course recognize him.
-It would still be a curious plan, however, since her disappearing after he took her somewhere would still put him in the line of suspicion, and he wouldn't want that, unless he was so confident and cocky he didn't worry about that.
-Her dna would already be in his car, so that wouldn't be a worry.
-Shannon's sister, in the radio interview, when asked if she met the driver to talk about Shannon's disappearance, said she was too nervous to do that. However, she did got to JB's house - she wasn't too nervous to do that. That was before she heard the 911 tape (or was told what was on it, or even that it existed) so it doesn't necessarily mean anything that the driver creeped her out at that point, but then again, maybe she got a vibe or knew some other stuff about him that made her nervous.
-two of the murdered women disappeared AFTER Shannon. It would be peculiar (although not out of question) that JB would dump 2 more bodies in that area if he were guilty AFTER what happened with Shannon, (although a cockiness might not preclude such a choice, especially since no-one seemed to be paying much attention to what happened at that point.) However, the driver might still do it, especially since JB was already in the spotlight with Shannon's disappearance (which he wouldn't have planned but would serve his purposes if the bodies were found.)
-it would explain why the family seems to know the name of who Shannon was running from
-it would explain why he said he just left her there - because in reality, I can't imagine a driver doing that
-It would still beg the question: what happened in the house to make Shannon suddenly afraid of the driver, as obviously she was not afraid before that or she wouldn't have gone there with him

I wonder what their history was prior to this. I also wonder - although it might not really matter, but still just wondering: he said he was playing online poker waiting for her. Can that sort of thing be checked? (Not to say that if he was planning to kill her after her visit to JB's, he wouldn't be playing online poker. Still, it would be interesting to know if he was truthful because when people lie it just raises a red flag - can't hurt to check out everything someone says in a case like that.)

I hope it doesn't sound completely detached when I talk about this - I don't mean any disrespect to Shannon or the murdered women, because in fact I am outraged by all of this and am angry and saddened by what happened to them. That is in fact why I am so intent upon finding out who did this.

Anyway, I'm hope this makes some sense - I'm not saying I believe it, I'm just trying to think of any plausible alternatives that would take into consideration the "coincidence" of Shannon's behaviour that night, disappearance and the discovery of murdered women in the area. It is the only thing I can currently think of that might be an alternative to JB, assuming these things are no coincidence.

It might also explain why the driver is not named in the media or by the police (although I know JB was not named by the police either.) I do believe however that the driver is EE (as previously suggested by another poster - can't remember who, sorry!) I would think if the police thought he might be the suspect, they wouldn't want media converging on him, etc.

Any thoughts on all of this?! I'm just racking my brain, that's all!

snapdragon, we are on the same wavelink. I have pondered and pondered on the reported events of that morning when Shannan went missing and tried to put at all together to make sense.

All of my thoughts keep coming back to the driver. Shannan was asked to leave early.....she refused. JB calls driver to come get her and driver says let's go and she refuses. Then he says I'm leaving and SG says 'don't go'. She runs to GC's house and when the driver shows up, SG tries to hide under a boat and then ran. GC tells driver he called 911 and driver tells him he shouldn't have done that....she will be in alot of trouble. GC states in an early news article that SG is yelling 'they're trying to kill me', then he backs off that statement and says she was yelling 'Help me Help me, they are after me' (paraphrased)
Then we have the call to SG's mom from the Dr that he now denies. I wonder if he gave Shannan something to calm her down and handed her back over to the driver who then took her back to JB's to complete whatever the job it was that she didn't want to do. A doctor would never admit to such a thing due to the consequences of losing his license. MOO

The neighbor lady whose home Shannan ran to has not been heard from in the media at all. Why did all these neighbors clam up/change stories?

Oh and whatever happened to the mysterious drifter who we haven't heard from but his mother was quoted in the media saying he went to GA? JB sells the house and moves back in with his mom and estranged wife and daughters....something stinks.

There is something really weird going on in that neighborhood, IMO.

I think she was scared of the driver because she was asked to leave earlier than the amt of time she was hired to stay at JB's. I believe this part of the story about being asked to leave as she was fully clothed when the driver arrived. Could she have been afraid of him because he wouldn't get the amt of his cut that he expected? Was he pimping her? Or was he JB's driver?

I am still on the fence about the Gilgo victims being connected to SG's disappearance. The circumstances seem different to me regarding last seen details but I have an open mind. But it sure is a coinky dink, isn't it? I am leaning closer to falling off that fence any day now on the side of there being a connection.

Sorry no links as I am remembering this info from MSM articles and besides I needed to express my opinion and rant a bit.:innocent:

This is just a theory and MOO. thanks all!

wm

 

[twocuriouscats]

Hi everyone, The following is from NJ.com - search for AD and SG)

The man who drove the missing 24-year-old Jersey City prostitute to her client in Oak Beach, Long Island on May 1 -- the day she went missing -- said today she was "delirious" and "irrational" when she made a 23-minute 911 call from the john's house.

Another man, the boyfriend of Shannon Maria Gilbert, told The Jersey Journal today that he initially thought Gilbert, of Christopher Columbus Drive in Jersey City, had left him when she didn't return home.

When he realized she had gone missing, he was devastated, he said.

Suffolk County police and the FBI are investigating whether Gilbert is one of four decomposed female bodies discovered in recent days along a desolate stretch of Ocean Parkway between Cedar Beach and West Gilgo Beach in Babylon, Long Island.

Authorities have said that the women -- whose bodies were discovered Saturday and Monday -- might have been victims of a serial killer. Dental records and DNA tests are being used to identify the bodies.

The New York driver, who requested his name not be used, said he dropped off Gilbert to the home of a client in Oak Beach at about 2 a.m. on May 1. Gilbert's price: $250 an hour, the driver said.

He said he spent three hours in his SUV outside the gated community, playing poker over the Internet and sleeping, when Gilbert's client phoned him at about 5 a.m., saying Gilbert was refusing to leave the house.

The driver said he drove back to the client's house and found Gilbert, who was clothed, in the living room on the phone with a 911 operator, saying that a man was after her.

"I said 'Shannon, Get a grip. Let's go,' and she said, 'You guys are trying to kill me.' So I said, 'OK, I am leaving.' But then she said, 'Don't go.'"

Gilbert eventually ran from the house, the driver said. The driver said he ran after Gilbert, who is bipolar and has a history of cocaine abuse, but then lost track.

He said drove around the gated community and outside the complex -- texting and calling her furiously on his cell phone -- before leaving the area 6 a.m. and believing that Gilbert would somehow make her way back to Jersey City.

Suffolk police today refused to release the audio or transcripts of the 911 call and provide any information about their response to the call.

Gilbert's live-in boyfriend at the time, Alex Diaz, 28, of Jersey City, said he last saw her on April 30.

"I was waiting and waiting (for Gilbert to come home)," Diaz said today. "After two days I thought she was not coming back."

Thinking that Gilbert had left him, Diaz, who now lives with his father on Duncan Avenue, said he called Gilbert's sister to see if she had returned home to her parents' home in Ellensville, N.Y.

Diaz said he also reached out to the driver, which is when the driver learned that Gilbert had never returned home.

On May 3, the boyfriend and the driver returned to Oak Beach in search of Gilbert and checked local beaches and area hospitals, according to the driver.

The driver said they tried to file a missing person report in Suffolk County, but police told them it had to be filed in Jersey City, Gilbert's hometown.

Diaz said today that Gilbert attempted to get work as a singer in Manhattan and was studying communications at an on-line university.

Sam, the property manager at Gilbert's Christopher Columbus apartment, said today that Gilbert was "full of life, sharp, and very honest."

"I think she was on the right track and could have done something good with her life," he said.


I have a couple thoughts I want to throw out:

1) If SG was doing coke at JB's house and injecting it (IV - "shooting up") that might have made her freak out (besides the threat).

2) ALC (for example)was a heroin addict.

3) Maybe the perp DID get to know them as someone who "parties" and they had let him inject them (sometimes users do this for each other). It would then be easy to inject them with another kind of drug...

4) SG has a connection to Manhattan too (per this article).

5) The "Dr." would know how to inject someone

6) How did the "driver" get BACK IN the gate if it locks?

7) PH denies EVER seeing SG. So how did he come to the attention of the press and LE?

Thoughts.comments?