NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #9

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  • #501
Thanks for the link m-c! The photo DOES appear to be taken in a hotel room, doesn't it?

It also gives the impression that MB's hands are bound behind her back. Whether or not that is the case, I don't know, but it gives the impression. This pic saddens me too. MB was such a beautiful young woman. She never had a chance....

MOO

wm
 
  • #502
GoatHair,

But why would the SK hang at the OBI parking lot though? She could have ran anywhere...
(Snip)

HOLY FRIGGIN COW!!! KPCrimeNY, you are a genius. You just asked the $100,000 question!!!

My first answer to that question was going to be that the SK WOULDN'T BECAUSE THERE USUALLY IS A PATROL CAR SITTING THERE ALL NIGHT LONG. NOT A POLICE OFFICE, BUT A TOWN OF BABYLON PUBLIC SAFETY OFFICER!!!

I don't know why I never put 2+2 together and figured this out before. Oak Beach Association is a private residential community on town property but the old Oak Beach Inn parking lot is PUBLIC. It's therefore patrolled by this department;


from the town's website;

[Public Safety Officer - are responsible for the security of town property and facilities. They enforce parking regulations and issue parking summonses and control traffic and security for all town facilities.

Marine Patrol - consists of a Harbor Master and Bay Constables that patrol the Great South Bay, as well as the Town of Babylon's beaches and facilities. They enforce all town codes and NYS and Federal Navigation Law, as well as NYS Environmental Conservation Law. They have the power to issue summonses and make an arrest.

Park Rangers - protect park resources and the residents who patronize them. They enforce all local and state laws and ordinances pertaining to parks and town facilities. They have the power to issue summonses and make an arrest.

Is anyone else thinking what I'm thinking?

KPCrimeNY asked why would the SK just be hanging out in the OBI parking lot and why wouldn't SG just run away?

I think the answer is clear. IMOO, our SK either works for the Town of Babylon as a Public Safety Officer, Marine Patrol Officer or Park Ranger (as described on the Town website) or he is one of those wanna-be-cop losers who drives a vehicle that makes him look like law enforcement (and even wears the fake uniform to make his fantasy/obsession even more realistic.

Either scenario would provide a boat load of answers/explanations!
 
  • #503
HOLY FRIGGIN COW!!! KPCrimeNY, you are a genius. You just asked the $100,000 question!!!

My first answer to that question was going to be that the SK WOULDN'T BECAUSE THERE USUALLY IS A PATROL CAR SITTING THERE ALL NIGHT LONG. NOT A POLICE OFFICE, BUT A TOWN OF BABYLON PUBLIC SAFETY OFFICER!!!

I don't know why I never put 2+2 together and figured this out before. Oak Beach Association is a private residential community on town property but the old Oak Beach Inn parking lot is PUBLIC. It's therefore patrolled by this department;


from the town's website;



Is anyone else thinking what I'm thinking?

KPCrimeNY asked why would the SK just be hanging out in the OBI parking lot and why wouldn't SG just run away?

I think the answer is clear. IMOO, our SK either works for the Town of Babylon as a Public Safety Officer, Marine Patrol Officer or Park Ranger (as described on the Town website) or he is one of those wanna-be-cop losers who drives a vehicle that makes him look like law enforcement (and even wears the fake uniform to make his fantasy/obsession even more realistic.

Either scenario would provide a boat load of answers/explanations!

BBM

IIRC, there pics of white trucks that were supposedly near the area where the bodies were found. I remember discussion about this earlier in the thread. Someone who was a local thought that those trucks looked like the park service trucks for that area.

@Waltzingmatilda-I thought the same thing about the position of MB's arms in that pic. The profile appears to be legit (look at her friends list) but I still can't help but get creeped out by that profile pic and by the fake profiles for the AC victims (and also for Amber). There's something about that that doesn't sit well with me. It reminds me a lot of those taunting phone calls. I noticed that we don't appear to have any fake profiles for Megan or Melissa (and didn't their families receive strange phone calls?). It could just be coincidence, but it still disturbs me.
 
  • #504
Does anyone have the info on exactly who the first LE responder was to arrive on the scene in response to SG's distress call? We know it was over 45 minutes or so.

What are the exact details on why LE says it took so long and who exactly arrived and from what specific agency?
 
  • #505
HOLY FRIGGIN COW!!! KPCrimeNY, you are a genius. You just asked the $100,000 question!!!

My first answer to that question was going to be that the SK WOULDN'T BECAUSE THERE USUALLY IS A PATROL CAR SITTING THERE ALL NIGHT LONG. NOT A POLICE OFFICE, BUT A TOWN OF BABYLON PUBLIC SAFETY OFFICER!!!

I don't know why I never put 2+2 together and figured this out before. Oak Beach Association is a private residential community on town property but the old Oak Beach Inn parking lot is PUBLIC. It's therefore patrolled by this department;


from the town's website;



Is anyone else thinking what I'm thinking?

KPCrimeNY asked why would the SK just be hanging out in the OBI parking lot and why wouldn't SG just run away?

I think the answer is clear. IMOO, our SK either works for the Town of Babylon as a Public Safety Officer, Marine Patrol Officer or Park Ranger (as described on the Town website) or he is one of those wanna-be-cop losers who drives a vehicle that makes him look like law enforcement (and even wears the fake uniform to make his fantasy/obsession even more realistic.

Either scenario would provide a boat load of answers/explanations!

What about the statements that CPH (according to the gilbert family) volunteers and acts as gate security / oak beach security?
 
  • #506
Gosh, I just had a Gestalt moment whe thinking again about the 'footprints in the sand'. I think LE know exactly which spot she disappeared from, or within a matter of a few feet.

The Canning's saw exactly where her footprints were in the sand. Even if they didn't track them all the way to where they stopped it would be close enough to get the specific area tagged for future reference.

Then LE has the 911 call where at the end Shannan is supposedly telling someone to leave her alone. I think that happened right where her footprints ended. Listening to Sherre she did give us pertinent info from that 911 call IMO

I think that last footprint would technically be 'the scene of the crime', where she was taken from and never to be seen again. IMO

Hi, Scandi, I think that the 911 call ended either as she left the house or immediately afterward. As for what she said, we have only heard very indirect reports. It seems unlikely that she was on the phone when running away: Neither of the people on whose door she knocked mentioned a phone, which would have been logical because both went in to make a 911 call themselves. My guess would be that Shannan rejected her driver's plea to get into his car shortly after she darted from the house.
 
  • #507
I have another funny story about JB. I was driving past his house this weekend and I could here a chainsaw running in his back yard. It wasn't one of those high power Texas chainsaw massacre chainsaws. I think it was actually a cheapo electric one. But I could hear it running as I drove by. He must have been cutting down some small branches or something. So I turn to my wife and say "Hey JB is cutting up some more bodies" and she says "You are sick!" LMAO!!!

Hi, GoatHairJones; what you're describing sounds all too muchlike the scene in Fargo (one of my favorite films) when Frances McDarmid comes upon one of the murderers disposing of his former partner in a wood chopper.

I don't think JB is guilty of murder, but he will spend the rest of his life provoking images like this one.
 
  • #508
Four of the murdered victims were using craigslist, backpage and other online classified to advertise their services. There is no indication they shared the same pimp, driver, or for that matter, met the same john.

Geographically however, their cell phone pings and/or the last seen location puts them within 25 miles of Gilgo beach. That is the cell phone pings of Melissa ( link ) & Maureen ( link ) were in the Massapequa area, Amber lived and was last seen in West Babylon ( link ), and Megan was last seen at a Hauppauge hotel ( link). Amber's & Melissa's last known appointments were for USD$1500 ( link ) and USD$1000 ( link ), respectively. Their ads indicate that these amounts were for over-night services.

The killer attempted to check Maureen's voicemail, at the very least, six months after she went missing. ( link ) and he called Melissa's little sister over the period of several months. ( link ) Noteably, that he taunted Melissa's little sister certainly indicates a sadistic mentality. That, in conjunction with the timing of the calls, raises the distinct possibility that he kept the victims alive for some period of time before murdering them. It would, after all, appeal to his sadistic nature.

As for the human trafficking scenarios that I posited and to which you are responding? Human trafficking is indeed offensive. As is the fact that society rarely acknowledges the exploitation and murder of women in the sex trade industry unless a serial killer angle is raised. Regardless and imnsho, the earmarks of human trafficking are all over these murders.

For starters, 3 of the 4 murdered women's boyfriends appear to double as pimps. Amber's sister not only brought her into the sex trade, but brought her to the NY area ( link ) to turn tricks with her, while allegedly running a scam with their housemates. ( link ) Megan's "boyfriend" was pimping her out and transporting her across state lines. Shannan's driver was convicted & served time in a Texas jail in 2004 for attempting to traffick an Asian woman into the country. ( link ) Moreover, the retired NYPD homicide detective has stated that the Holiday Inn in the Hauppauge area is known to be frequented by sex rings. ( link )... you know... the last place Megan was seen alive ( link ) and where Amber was alleged to have previously met clients ( link )? Add to this that you're looking at 4 victims, possibly 5, from 5 different states (i.e., Maine, Connecticut, New Jersey, Florida, & New York), and well?

Whatever the case, human trafficking, while horribly offensive, is unfortunately as common if not moreso to the sex trade industry as is serial killers murdering prostitutes. What role and to what degree said trafficking plays remains to be seen.

Hi, ShadowWraiths, thanks for this wonderful composite summary; so valuable that I'm saving it. I think that my doubts, like Scandi's, are that an overarching conspiracy involving all four (or five) girls has not been indicated by any of the evidence so far.

But as some one who for many years witnessed pimps and prostitutes on my block, I applaud your care and fervency.
 
  • #509
Does anyone have the info on exactly who the first LE responder was to arrive on the scene in response to SG's distress call? We know it was over 45 minutes or so.

What are the exact details on why LE says it took so long and who exactly arrived and from what specific agency?

Hi, SeaSlug44. I can't speak for law enforcement, but I do have a guess: I think that the 45 minutes estimate had the clock ticking from the beginning of Shannan's 23 minute 911 call. Unfortunately, she does not seem to have been able to identify from where she was calling. (There was a report that she thought she was on Fire Island.) Thus, the clock continued to tick after she finished the call, left the house, and then ran into the elderly man and the woman, both of whom made calls that actually brought help.
 
  • #510
"Surveillance cameras also give imperative clues in cases such as missing persons, and/or unsolved deaths. Seeing video of where a person was last seen can be helpful in gathering clues to their disappearance. Most recently, video cameras have given clues to police in the Shannan Gilbert case, who has been missing since May 2010. Surveillance footage also led to the arrest of Philip Markoff, the 23-year-old medical student, also known as the Craigslist Killer, who allegedly murdered Julissa Brisman."

(Bolded by me)

http://www.beautifulclothings.com/how-surveillance-helps-solve-crimes/


So the tapes aren't missing!?
I wonder if MP's story matches up with what's seen. Was he really parked at the gate outside of the community or did he go through the gate? Did he really stay and look for Shannan and leave at 6? Or is he seen leaving earlier, and maybe with SG in the car?
Hopefullly they got SOMETHING on video...
 
  • #511
somehow it always seems like someone has to blame the victim...because shannan was not taking proper meds, because she put herself in harms way...because she lives a high risk lifestyle.

she is not responsible in anyway...

first she gets ignored because she is is a crazy drug person...then she gets blamed too.

men should always, always ...protect women in everyway...protect them with their lives.
 
  • #512
isn't "following them after the party" stalking?
Not in the legal sense. ( link )

to say you have an SK who taunts the victims' families and is also part of a smuggling ring
Human smuggling != human trafficking ( link ). Moreover, killers who work for organized crime have been known to have an extreme sadistic bent ( link ).

Whatever the case, I am not of the opinion that a specific human trafficking "organization" is procuring and murdering women. That is, wrt these particular murders. I do however think human trafficking plays a role to the degree of the type of people involved, the crowds they run with, and the sorts of events they host/attend. After all, every scene has its outliers. The human trafficking scene is certainly no different.

That said, of the three scenarios I previously put forward, the "fight club" scenario is obviously highly unlikely. That is, unless you want to tie in the mutilated chickens ( link ) & pit bulls ( link ), dismembered women, the violently murdered male, and the GB4. I, personally, find that too far reaching, but that's just me.

As for the other two scenarios? You may be surprised (or not) how common that sort of thing is. Just do a search for "gang bang" and/or "rape" on various adult classifieds sites and you will find people, usually advertising in the plural, who are organizing these sorts of "events."

Otherwise put, from where I sit, it is certainly not a stretch that these people are procuring the girls for their "events" by responding to outcall ads and offering large sums of money. Moreover, afaics, it is well within the realm of possibility that the killer attends said "events" and abducts his victims afterwards.
 
  • #513
Wasn't it stated that LE took so long to get there because they didn't know where she was calling from? I thought I'd read something about her telling the 911 operator that she thought she was in Fire Island. Now, I don't know if local LE had the ability to trace a cell phone call, but if they did not, then this kind of makes sense I guess.

Another thing that I remember reading was that Shannan's mother or sister mentioned that when they listened to the 911 call, there was some indication that she was grabbed and pulled into a vehicle of some sort. I don't know if this is something her mother or sister just concluded on their own, or if Shannan did actually say something in that call about being pulled into a car (or if they overheard something). I tend to believe her family. They've seemed to be very honest and upfront since this case broke. They desperately want to find their daughter and sister, so I don't think they'd start throwing out rumors. I really wish that call would get released to the public. I think there's a lot of information on that tape that could potentially help us to figure this out.

Minazoe, I completely agree with you. There's so much blaming of the victims in this case (not here, but on other sites) and it sickens me. I don't care what they did for a living or what drug habits they had-they did NOT deserve to be murdered. Where is the outrage that these men are buying sex? So much stigmatizing of the women, but nobody ever seems to criticize the men who hire these women. It infuriates me. I have the most contempt for Megan's boyfriend. He is the one who seemed to push her into prostitution. What an absolute 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬, IMO. Ugh...
 
  • #514
somehow it always seems like someone has to blame the victim...because shannan was not taking proper meds, because she put herself in harms way...because she lives a high risk lifestyle.

she is not responsible in anyway...

first she gets ignored because she is is a crazy drug person...then she gets blamed too.

men should always, always ...protect women in everyway...protect them with their lives.

I hope that you are not referring to my previous post which mentioned Shannan not taking her medication for her bipolar condition (quite a serious matter if you know any bipolar sufferers.) I wrote specifically that this did not minimize in any way the culpability of the person who killed her. Her condition that morning, however, is totally relevant to what might have happened to her. I simply don't understand to what you were referring: Nobody here on WebSleuths has been blaming her.
 
  • #515
Hi, SeaSlug44. I can't speak for law enforcement, but I do have a guess: I think that the 45 minutes estimate had the clock ticking from the beginning of Shannan's 23 minute 911 call. Unfortunately, she does not seem to have been able to identify from where she was calling. (There was a report that she thought she was on Fire Island.) Thus, the clock continued to tick after she finished the call, left the house, and then ran into the elderly man and the woman, both of whom made calls that actually brought help.

Is there a timeline that one of us created showing all of the 911 calls?

Curious if her 23 minute call came before or after the other 911 calls. Also would still like to know what government agency the first responder represented.
 
  • #516
I'd like to set one thing straight: Although none of us have heard SG phone call to 911, LE stated that SG said she thought she was near "Jones Beach" (NOT Fire Island). They said that because she thought she was near "Jones Beach" they transfered the call the the NY State Police however, once they got approval to ping her cell phone and realized she was near Oak Beach they transfered the call back to SCPD and by that time GC's call confirmed she was in Oak Beach.

I don't believe Fire Island was ever mentioned by LE as the place she indicated she was calling from. I am going to go back and see if I can find the news conference where Dormer indicates why the response took so long.

But I believe GC's call was at 4:50AM and the SCPD Marine Bureau arrived in an SUV at 5:35AM.
 
  • #517
What about the statements that CPH (according to the gilbert family) volunteers and acts as gate security / oak beach security?
If there is truth behind those claims then CPH would have more than likely had gone outside the gated community to chase away people hanging out on the East side of the OBI public parking lot because that lot is adjacent to the OB Association neighborhood. I'm wondering if Babylon stopped patrolling the lot with their public safety officers at one point in time due to budget cuts. I know that in the heat of the summer the lot is patrolled at night to keep it from becoming a hangout spot. The main goal of CPH would be to chase away anyone making noise (blasting radios, screaming kids, etc...). That sort of activity would only take place outside their gates in the public lot. The community inside the gates is so small and secluded that his running car/headlights would be more annoying to the community than anything else. There is no way he drove up and down their streets like a security guard.
 
  • #518
I'd like to set one thing straight: Although none of us have heard SG phone call to 911, LE stated that SG said she thought she was near "Jones Beach" (NOT Fire Island). They said that because she thought she was near "Jones Beach" they transfered the call the the NY State Police however, once they got approval to ping her cell phone and realized she was near Oak Beach they transfered the call back to SCPD and by that time GC's call confirmed she was in Oak Beach.

I don't believe Fire Island was ever mentioned by LE as the place she indicated she was calling from. I am going to go back and see if I can find the news conference where Dormer indicates why the response took so long.

But I believe GC's call was at 4:50AM and the SCPD Marine Bureau arrived in an SUV at 5:35AM.

One thing you just said stands out to me: SCPD Marine Bureau.

If possible, can anyone verify that it was stated specifically that it SCPD (Suffolk County PD) Marine Bureau or that it was just stated as "Marine Bureau"?

This could be a significant clue depending upon what the answer is.
 
  • #519
I'd like to set one thing straight: Although none of us have heard SG phone call to 911, LE stated that SG said she thought she was near "Jones Beach" (NOT Fire Island). They said that because she thought she was near "Jones Beach" they transfered the call the the NY State Police however, once they got approval to ping her cell phone and realized she was near Oak Beach they transfered the call back to SCPD and by that time GC's call confirmed she was in Oak Beach.

I don't believe Fire Island was ever mentioned by LE as the place she indicated she was calling from. I am going to go back and see if I can find the news conference where Dormer indicates why the response took so long.

But I believe GC's call was at 4:50AM and the SCPD Marine Bureau arrived in an SUV at 5:35AM.
Hi Goathairjones, There was a discussion by LI locals in the comment section of an article {I think} where they discussed this in full. And what it came down to is because there are different LE districts in that area responding to calls they have guidelines on who responds when. And the dispatcher had to contact the Marine Police {?} that night to go to Oak Beach and it took an extra 20+ min or so for them to get there.

Maybe a local here will remember that discussion. I think I'm close but maybe not exact. LOL
 
  • #520
I'd like to set one thing straight: Although none of us have heard SG phone call to 911, LE stated that SG said she thought she was near "Jones Beach" (NOT Fire Island). They said that because she thought she was near "Jones Beach" they transfered the call the the NY State Police however, once they got approval to ping her cell phone and realized she was near Oak Beach they transfered the call back to SCPD and by that time GC's call confirmed she was in Oak Beach.

I don't believe Fire Island was ever mentioned by LE as the place she indicated she was calling from. I am going to go back and see if I can find the news conference where Dormer indicates why the response took so long.

But I believe GC's call was at 4:50AM and the SCPD Marine Bureau arrived in an SUV at 5:35AM.

Hi, GoatHairJones, and thanks. The call, as I remember, was made at 4:51 a.m. and, to answer someone else's question, it was made before she left the house and thus before the two other calls.

On an aside, I hope that attention isn't lost on the proven victims of the serial killer. For instance, as far as I can remember, there has been almost no dialogue about the strange circumstances of Maureen's disappearance: She called one of her friends from midtown, at the Port Authority Building, and said that she had been robbed and thus needed a ride home to Connecticut. Thus, we have a known victim in Manhattan, not Long Island, with no apparent means to get elsewhere. Of course, one wonders about the circumstances of the mugging (Had she been robbed by a john? Had she spent her money on drugs?), but to me, the most important questions are those raised by the circumstances: Was she killed by a Craigslist client or, more likely, a john pick-up or a depraved "good samiratan" ride?

P.S. When I wrote this, I stupidly neglected the valuable and sweet thread about Maureen started on this site by Salem.
 
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