Identified! NY - Mount Vernon, WhtFem 51UFNY, 18-25, Left Near Junkyard, Feb'88 - Veronica Wiederhold

[Springrain]

In the link it said she was placed on garage door springs. They would have had to come from the scrap yard. I can't imagine anyone driving around with those in their car. Most scrap yards are fenced and locked to ward off theft. I could be totally wrong, but I feel like he had access to one of those building somehow.

My gut instinct agrees with you, catherine. Especially in Mt. Vernon/the Bronx, you'd want to keep people away from your scrap metal - people are still stealing copper out of buildings up here, to sell for $ for drugs. My original theory was that he or his family owned one of those businesses.

Or he used to work there. I think he was sending a message to the scrap yard owners which makes me remember a mechanic that used to work for us at my dads gas station. He had threatened to kill my dad at one time. He ended up marrying a gal, living with her & her mom in Plainfield NJ. Not sure what set him off, but he ended up killing his MIL, then cutting her hands off. I could see him doing something like this to send a message to my dad that he was next.

I love Websleuths and how we work together to think up new ideas!
The possible link with scrap metal intrigues me too.

 

[jessr927]

I never gave the garage springs much thought till catherine brought it up. The Journal News article does clearly state that MVJD was found laid out on a sidewalk, carefully placed atop a set of used garage door springs. So the killer found some used garage door springs laying around, and arranged her body on top of them? Is that supposed to mean something? (I always just thought she had been left IN the junkyard or the parking lot of one, which is why the springs weren't surprising to me).

She was not sexually assaulted; that's another thing that jumps out at me.

 

[jessr927]

Sorry for all my nonstop posting today, but this is a snip of a conversation I had with a friend of mine whose family has been living in MV since the 1930's (my parents came here only 5 years before MVJD was murdered - Mom does not remember the case since she was busy with 4 year old me lol).

Thoughts?

 

[jessr927]

My friend further notes that MVJD may have been a mob "side woman" in New Jersey, and may have been killed as a territory thing. This industrial area of Mount Vernon has a lot of sketchy mobbed up iron works, fencing, junkyard, sanitation places etc. In fact, when I first tried to draw up a profile of the killer years ago, I spooked myself when I read over it afterwards - because it very accurately described a former client of mine whose family has owned a business just blocks away from Carleton, for over 60 years.

 

[rats]

I made a list of all the suggestions we've had so far, plus all the ruleouts on NamUs. This was mostly for my own reference while looking for MPs, however, I'm posting it so that other people can use it as well.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Q-Z-22dBgvzKnfZxVtkAmNZTtcyZ3JpewwyAEib-dIo/edit

If I missed any (or any details about any of them), please let me know!

 

[Al Ka]

Thank you Catherine for bringing up garage door springs topic. It dwelled on my mind since I first heard of it, perhaps because English is not my first language and I just have no idea how to envisage the scene, how she was placed on top of it or actually what it is. I do know mattress springs but garage ones? I would understand her being positioned on garage door, but again springs? How and why? My apologies for rumbling, and not mentioning it before, but I guess I might be only one for who it is still not clear.

Is Carleton Avenue one way road?

Another statement dwelles a bit on my mind and it was mentioned few times

December 15, 2013

MOUNT VERNON — She was brutally strangled to death, her naked body laid out on the sidewalk in broad daylight in front of a south side junk yard on Valentine’s Day 25 years ago.

The woman was found lying face-up, her body carefully placed on a set of used garage door springs.

The victim’s body was discovered at 11:54 a.m. on Feb. 14, 1988, opposite 22 Carlton Ave., in a desolate, industrial area. A large German shepherd stood guard behind a fence nearby.

An autopsy found the woman had bruises above the left eye and ligature markings around her neck, wrists and ankles. She had been killed roughly six to 12 hours before that, and moved to the location sometime after 10:20 a.m.

http://www.practicalhomicide.com/current/MtVernonJaneDoe.htm

Where the statement of 10:20am came from?.. I assume it could be only from witnesses, passers by... So it means someone was walking, driving around desolate area at 10:20am on Sunday when and where everything is closed and then just only over one hour later someone walk/drive around there again and finds her? To me it sounds as probably it is not that desolate or it make me question who and why was there at both times or if 10:20 is solid information.
I am not here to question it at all, just stating what it went across my mind and that she could have been placed there anywhere after midnight (3-4am) and morning hours when discovered.

Timing

She was found on 14th February, on Sunday and was well alive on Saturday, the 13th. Because of cocaine in her system and Saturday, I do, like many others here mentioned, believe that she could have been at some social gathering, partying, clubbing. Some time ago I have checked local scene and there were/are quite a few big clubs nearby and there were quite a few parties there on 13th or even during that week. I have checked for photos from those clubs around the period and there are some out there. There is even one website were past employees of big local club discussing the dancing scene of '88, other staff and also clubbers. If she was staff and not a clubber they might recognize her? Of course gathering could have been at other or private places too.

Manner of death

Autopsy did NOT find that she engaged in sexual activity as stated in post up-thread, only LE did state that she May have before she died and known fact that she had not been sexually assaulted.

An autopsy found the woman had bruises above the left eye and ligature markings around her neck, wrists and ankles

*Because of ligature markings on wrists and ankles it made me think of her being chained and industrial area... No noise to be heard, all tools available, easy to be kept for hours.
*She was beaten while being chained or tied up... Did she see something she should not? Did she knew too much or did they try to get some information out of her? Did she knew someone she should not? Or was it revenge on someone?
*She was struck heavily above eye and on head leaving big mark on forehead - did she fall on the ground face down while being beaten and then being chained or did they use something heavy to strike her with? It looks pretty awful.
*Forensics probably confirmed if ligature markings were due to being chained (with metal or wire) or tied up (with cloth material)

Place

As many mentioned here it seems perp new the area. It seems to me just too coincidental that she was found there. If it was done there in one of the businesses they would not lay her down in front of their own business. They did want her to being found. I does not seems to me as "undoing", as they would cover her etc, but more as the statement to someone...
Roselv thank you for reminding of junk yard owners opposite where she was found.. on junk yard garage doors springs... (by the way welcome back

Her Face

I have stared and analyzed her face way too much for quite some time (one known photo), with I think negative impact as so far I would not agree that absolutely anyone resembles her. I wish I was able to see different pics of her, to correct my perspective. She seems very young, probably older teen with too close eyebrows and almost non existent little nose... I also wonder if on other photos were her ears visible, as that would help a lot and perhaps if not seeing photo, her profile pic could be done to see her nose and ear from the side. Do we have any dental info, apart of knowing that it was very healthy, with mentioning gaps or any unusual shape? I think pic of teeth would help a lot too.

 

[da fino]

a couple thoughts on location and profile.

besides local workers, others that might be visiting the junkyard regularly enough to be familiar enough with the area would be scrappers and auto repair mechanics or hobbyists after used parts. not sure if the yard had a lot cars and sells parts, but most do.

based on the descriptions of the posing of the body, and i think someone may have mentioned earlier in the thread, but it sounds like she was positioned like christ crucified on the cross with the springs being used to make a cross.

that sounds like a rather unusual way for someone to pose a body of someone they knew well, like a girlfriend or spouse. then again, it could also mean that the killer was aware of the posing francisco avecedo used on his victims and may have just been copying him to throw off investigators. so probably someone within media coverage of acevedo's murders since he was in jail at the time.

with the cocaine and suggestions of sexual activity but not necessarily outright sex assault, it does sound like the victim was possibly in the neighborhood of stripping or a working gal. and with the posing of the body, i do think we are looking at someone that got off on murdering her. smells like high potential for someone serial.

i still have a hard time with the fact that the victim remains unidentified. either her family wrote her off well before the murder based on her lifestyle, she was not at all from the area and hadn't been there long enough to make friends or her family/friends are in some way incriminated in the story.

 

[jessr927]

Acevedo was in jail in CT in 1986 for raping and beating a girl in Meriden. He was released in June 1988 and didn't have any (known) murder victims until Feb. 1989 (Maria Ramos)

http://murderpedia.org/male.A/a/acevedo-francisco.htm

that sounds like a rather unusual way for someone to pose a body of someone they knew well, like a girlfriend or spouse. then again, it could also mean that the killer was aware of the posing francisco avecedo used on his victims and may have just been copying him to throw off investigators. so probably someone within media coverage of acevedo's murders since he was in jail at the time.

with the cocaine and suggestions of sexual activity but not necessarily outright sex assault, it does sound like the victim was possibly in the neighborhood of stripping or a working gal. and with the posing of the body, i do think we are looking at someone that got off on murdering her. smells like high potential for someone serial.

i still have a hard time with the fact that the victim remains unidentified. either her family wrote her off well before the murder based on her lifestyle, she was not at all from the area and hadn't been there long enough to make friends or her family/friends are in some way incriminated in the story.

I think you're right on both counts - that her family had already written her off AND she was not from the area. I think she was either from NJ or MA.

 

[catherine.]

I attached what garage door springs look like.

I didn't even think of them using them as a crucifix! I don't know a lot about the mob/mafia, just that it started in NYC. If you took the time to place a body in broad daylight, I feel like you have done things like this before. I feel like who ever killed her was making a point to someone.

This case seems so easily solvable, but there are just so many things that seem to contradict each other.

 

[jessr927]

Here is a picture of what garage springs look like, Al Ka:

Is Carleton Avenue one way road?

Yes, it is a one way. If you are heading southbound on South Columbus/Route 22, you would make a right turn onto Carleton. It ends approximately one block down, at East 7th Avenue. Both Columbus and East 7th are two way streets.

Where the statement of 10:20am came from?.. I assume it could be only from witnesses, passers by... So it means someone was walking, driving around desolate area at 10:20am on Sunday when and where everything is closed and then just only over one hour later someone walk/drive around there again and finds her? To me it sounds as probably it is not that desolate or it make me question who and why was there at both times or if 10:20 is solid information.
I am not here to question it at all, just stating what it went across my mind and that she could have been placed there anywhere after midnight (3-4am) and morning hours when discovered.

I don't know where the 10:20 am statement originated, I read it in the article. I assume there were passerby - South Columbus/Rt. 22 is a busy main road, and as I've mentioned before, you can easily see down Carleton from there. Or perhaps somebody drove down Carleton around that time, looking for scrap metal? Not sure.

*Because of ligature markings on wrists and ankles it made me think of her being chained and industrial area... No noise to be heard, all tools available, easy to be kept for hours.

The police estimate she was dead between 6 - 12 hours before being posed outside. My question is, what was the killer doing for that period of time between her death and her posing? This makes me think that she was not killed in the vicinity of Carleton. In fact you could walk from one end of Mt. Vernon to the other end in probably less than two hours! (we are 4 square miles). I assume she was killed quite a distance from here.

They did want her to being found. I does not seems to me as "undoing", as they would cover her etc, but more as the statement to someone...

I agree with you completely

 

[jessr927]

based on the descriptions of the posing of the body, and i think someone may have mentioned earlier in the thread, but it sounds like she was positioned like christ crucified on the cross with the springs being used to make a cross.

How did I skip right over this? I guess I was picturing smaller springs. Seeing the photo Catherine posted though, wow.... I think that is exactly what the killer was trying to stage.

 

[da fino]

Acevedo was in jail in CT in 1986 for raping and beating a girl in Meriden. He was released in June 1988 and didn't have any (known) murder victims until Feb. 1989 (Maria Ramos)

http://murderpedia.org/male.A/a/acevedo-francisco.htm



I think you're right on both counts - that her family had already written her off AND she was not from the area. I think she was either from NJ or MA.

thanks for the timing on the acevedo murders, i had not looked into that. i wonder what the source of the fact that he was incarcerated was? the local and similarities are hard to ignore and i am wondering if there was not a simple clerical error on paperwork with regards to the year.

add tow truck drivers to the list of people that would frequent the area. as well truckers picking up the bulk scrap, presumably to be melted down and used again in manufacturing. trying to figure out who would know the hours of the place and that mid morning on sunday they would be safe enough to pose her in broad daylight.

 

[jessr927]

thanks for the timing on the acevedo murders, i had not looked into that. i wonder what the source of the fact that he was incarcerated was? the local and similarities are hard to ignore and i am wondering if there was not a simple clerical error on paperwork with regards to the year.

http://www.westchestermagazine.com/...Serial-Killer-Francisco-A-Acevedo-to-Justice/

This is a really good article about Acevedo, and Det. John Geiss of Yonkers PD (he is amazing). It may have been a clerical error as you suggest, and I truly wanted Acevedo to be the killer of MVJD - I am NOT exaggerating when I say I jumped out of my chair when they first arrested this creep, I was SO sure he was behind this. But a lot of things don't add up. If he did kill MVJD, he got sloppier as time went on, rather than smarter - his 3 known victims were all raped. Some were found with their clothes nearby, or his beer bottles and cigarette butts nearby.

 

[Roselvr]

Thank you Catherine for bringing up garage door springs topic. It dwelled on my mind since I first heard of it, perhaps because English is not my first language and I just have no idea how to envisage the scene, how she was placed on top of it or actually what it is. I do know mattress springs but garage ones? I would understand her being positioned on garage door, but again springs? How and why? My apologies for rumbling, and not mentioning it before, but I guess I might be only one for who it is still not clear.

Is Carleton Avenue one way road?

Another statement dwelles a bit on my mind and it was mentioned few times


http://www.practicalhomicide.com/current/MtVernonJaneDoe.htm

Where the statement of 10:20am came from?.. I assume it could be only from witnesses, passers by... So it means someone was walking, driving around desolate area at 10:20am on Sunday when and where everything is closed and then just only over one hour later someone walk/drive around there again and finds her? To me it sounds as probably it is not that desolate or it make me question who and why was there at both times or if 10:20 is solid information.
I am not here to question it at all, just stating what it went across my mind and that she could have been placed there anywhere after midnight (3-4am) and morning hours when discovered.

Timing

She was found on 14th February, on Sunday and was well alive on Saturday, the 13th. Because of cocaine in her system and Saturday, I do, like many others here mentioned, believe that she could have been at some social gathering, partying, clubbing. Some time ago I have checked local scene and there were/are quite a few big clubs nearby and there were quite a few parties there on 13th or even during that week. I have checked for photos from those clubs around the period and there are some out there. There is even one website were past employees of big local club discussing the dancing scene of '88, other staff and also clubbers. If she was staff and not a clubber they might recognize her? Of course gathering could have been at other or private places too.

Manner of death

Autopsy did NOT find that she engaged in sexual activity as stated in post up-thread, only LE did state that she May have before she died and known fact that she had not been sexually assaulted.


*Because of ligature markings on wrists and ankles it made me think of her being chained and industrial area... No noise to be heard, all tools available, easy to be kept for hours.
*She was beaten while being chained or tied up... Did she see something she should not? Did she knew too much or did they try to get some information out of her? Did she knew someone she should not? Or was it revenge on someone?
*She was struck heavily above eye and on head leaving big mark on forehead - did she fall on the ground face down while being beaten and then being chained or did they use something heavy to strike her with? It looks pretty awful.
*Forensics probably confirmed if ligature markings were due to being chained (with metal or wire) or tied up (with cloth material)

Place

As many mentioned here it seems perp new the area. It seems to me just too coincidental that she was found there. If it was done there in one of the businesses they would not lay her down in front of their own business. They did want her to being found. I does not seems to me as "undoing", as they would cover her etc, but more as the statement to someone...
Roselv thank you for reminding of junk yard owners opposite where she was found.. on junk yard garage doors springs... (by the way welcome back

Her Face

I have stared and analyzed her face way too much for quite some time (one known photo), with I think negative impact as so far I would not agree that absolutely anyone resembles her. I wish I was able to see different pics of her, to correct my perspective. She seems very young, probably older teen with too close eyebrows and almost non existent little nose... I also wonder if on other photos were her ears visible, as that would help a lot and perhaps if not seeing photo, her profile pic could be done to see her nose and ear from the side. Do we have any dental info, apart of knowing that it was very healthy, with mentioning gaps or any unusual shape? I think pic of teeth would help a lot too.

Thank you! It's good to be back!

Acevedo was in jail in CT in 1986 for raping and beating a girl in Meriden. He was released in June 1988 and didn't have any (known) murder victims until Feb. 1989 (Maria Ramos)

http://murderpedia.org/male.A/a/acevedo-francisco.htm

I think you're right on both counts - that her family had already written her off AND she was not from the area. I think she was either from NJ or MA.

Her face, due to the eye brows, haunts me. I also feel she is from NJ. I look at the original PM photo and feel like her name is at the tip of my tongue, but I can't get it out. I've met a lot of people over the years, back in the 80's I had motorcycles; a Kawasaki & a Harley. I used to go to swap meets & hill climbs, had also gone to a few go-go bars. I feel like I knew her back.

She most likely is an adult. Was living on her own; possibly with her BF. It makes no sense to me why she wouldn't shave her under arms, but would wax her pubic area. I've always felt it was due to making sure there were no make pubic hairs left when she was found. They probably went to a party, or were home, had a veggie platter, she ate the broccoli, did some coke, they went to the bedroom and it got too rough.

thanks for the timing on the acevedo murders, i had not looked into that. i wonder what the source of the fact that he was incarcerated was? the local and similarities are hard to ignore and i am wondering if there was not a simple clerical error on paperwork with regards to the year.

add tow truck drivers to the list of people that would frequent the area. as well truckers picking up the bulk scrap, presumably to be melted down and used again in manufacturing. trying to figure out who would know the hours of the place and that mid morning on sunday they would be safe enough to pose her in broad daylight.

Thanks to those that posted the garage door springs. I was going to do the same. They can be pretty large depending on the door it's being used on.

Someone driving a tow truck makes a lot of sense, especially at a scrap yard. It wouldn't be out of place.

 

[jessr927]

Her face, due to the eye brows, haunts me. I also feel she is from NJ.

So including you, three people independently, without knowing the other one's thoughts, think this woman is from NJ. Interesting!

Someone driving a tow truck makes a lot of sense, especially at a scrap yard. It wouldn't be out of place.

Oh, my Lord, did this just send a chill down my spine, and I know this is all very tangential but please bear with me. Very early on in the thread, I mentioned that MVJD looked vaguely Chilean to me, as she bore a resemblance to one of my old roommates in Mount Vernon who had come here from Chile. Before I lived with her, this roommate lived in a house owned by a Mount Vernon tow truck driver and she moved out of there suddenly, accusing him of taking photos of her sleeping in the nude I believe. As an aside from that, this tow truck driver has a son or nephew (it's been over ten years - hard to recall) who was rumored to have murdered a man because he was beating his wife.

 

[jessr927]

I probably sound like I have a screw loose, but the tow truck driver I just mentioned has his shop basically around the corner from where MVJD was found.

 

[catherine.]

I believe after the information and photos provided by jess that who ever killed MVJD was local. It doesn't seem like an area someone from out of town would know very well plus they would need to know when there wouldn't be a lot of people at those business or on that street to display the body. That being said I completely agree that MVJD was not local. If her murder was publicized I imagine someone would have come forward stating that they had at least seen her somewhere in town. Many of the other UID's at least had a local sighting before they died.

Great idea on the subject of tow truck drivers everyone! In high school I was friends with a girl who's dad owned a garage and had a tow truck. He had keys to the local junk yard because if there was an accident after hours/holidays/weekends he could just take the wrecked vehicle, unlock the gate, and drop it off and the people who ran the yard wouldn't have to come out.

Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk

 

[zelda_s]

I believe that, as many others have said, she may have been an exotic dancer / sex worker, or, failing that, a girl who enjoyed partying a lot. The cocaine certainly confirms that theory.
One thing I noticed was that her eyebrows were not what I would call 'well groomed' - not plucked / shaped / waxed. Yet her pubic hair was recently shaved. That confuses me a bit.
This happening on valentines day makes me think a partner did this.

 

[jessr927]

Last night my friend J and I were tossing around ideas and he brought up this man:

http://murderpedia.org/male.H/h/henriquez-alejandro.htm

http://www.investigations.bizland.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/portrait2.pdf

https://youtu.be/FJbQVVscZDE

The similarities were too much for us to ignore, so I left a voicemail for Det. DiMase of the Mt. Vernon Major Case Squad this morning.

 

[Springrain]

Oh, my Lord, did this just send a chill down my spine, and I know this is all very tangential but please bear with me. Very early on in the thread, I mentioned that MVJD looked vaguely Chilean to me, as she bore a resemblance to one of my old roommates in Mount Vernon who had come here from Chile. Before I lived with her, this roommate lived in a house owned by a Mount Vernon tow truck driver and she moved out of there suddenly, accusing him of taking photos of her sleeping in the nude I believe. As an aside from that, this tow truck driver has a son or nephew (it's been over ten years - hard to recall) who was rumored to have murdered a man because he was beating his wife.

Do you think that she is her?

The tow truck really grabs at me too--very disturbing anecdote.