Identified! NY - Mount Vernon, WhtFem 51UFNY, 18-25, Left Near Junkyard, Feb'88 - Veronica Wiederhold

[Dizzie]

Crack was a thing in Miami as early as 1981 but it wasn't until 1984 that it really got entrenched in LA and basically exploded all over the major cities, by 1988 it was pretty much available everywhere - that time period was well into the crack epidemic. She could have simply smoked crack if the results come up the same, she was young so maybe had just started on that road.

 

[Springrain]

Her dentition wasn't described as poor, although she didn't have dental work. Makes me think she was somewhat inexperienced with heavier drugs...just MOO of course.

 

[Dizzie]

I think after maybe 12 months the decay would start to be noticable along with the non regular brushing of teeth..If she was a regular drug user it would definately show..

 

[Roselvr]

Just a quick FYI (you might know some of this info already):
- Broccoli and cocaine was found in her system
- Some speculate her DNA sample is tainted and focus more on MP's dental work when comparing her
- Her pubic area was shaved
- Her fingernails were painted, so she was probably "into that kind of thing"

Personally I don't think she was from the area, but I think her killer was. I think she may have been going to college in a neighboring town (New Rochelle, maybe?) and perhaps was a sex worker to pay her tuition. She maybe shaved the area she thought would help with business, ignored legs/underarms and didn't have access to tweezers. If she had no permanent home, and/or no little time or no access to a shower, she may have shaved with a bar of soap and sink water. If you're a girl and have done that, you know what I mean...you don't want to shave everything under those conditions. Anyway, I think an isotope analysis would be very good for identifying her.

I agree, isotope would help a lot. I feel whoever killed her shaved her pubic area to remove traces of his DNA. Times were different back then, not everyone tweezed their eyebrows. It was also
February, she may not have shaved her underarms every time she showered; or she was held captive a few days. The broccoli & coke sound like she may have been at a party when "they" decided to leave.

I don't recall coke being expensive.

I don't think she's Cathleen.

Namus says "recent shaving of pubic hair/Brazilian wax. Unshaven arm pits." A dancer would probably shave their armpits.. In one thread I think it's the unidentfied woman from Longview TX, there's a poster who was a dancer about this time maybe I will message her and ask her to come read this thread (need to remember where she posted). There's really so little info on this case, yeah sure she could have been a dancer, streetwalker etc. I definately agree with Jess that he knew the area and felt comfortable spending time posing a body in a street he knew would be quiet at that particular time and the very fact that he was that comfortable at all just screams multiple murderer at you. Obviously when you frequent sites such as this it's inevitable that you will find some disturbing content but this case just disturbs me alot more than most.

Maybe we should go back and list the facts:

Young, pretty girl -
good teeth - prolly means a reasonable stable upbringing in most people's eyes, although if that's the case how come nobody misses her?
Brocolli? Maybe she was healthy living, she seemed in decent physical shape.
Drugs? Did she take them herself? Like we discussed cocaine was readily available but expensive during this time period.
Fake nails.
6 hour post mortem time which means she was posted early morning sometime more than likely?

We got stuff to go on.

 

[jessr927]

The broccoli & coke sound like she may have been at a party when "they" decided to leave.

I don't recall coke being expensive.

I don't think she's Cathleen.

I agree that they were at a party. Broccoli could be from a crudite platter.

I'm split on whether or not she is Cathleen. There are some coincidences, but not enough to totally sell me.

 

[catherine.]

Has this article been posted before? If so completely disregard. I found it while searching Cathleen Martin.

http://www.practicalhomicide.com/current/MtVernonJaneDoe.htm

It states that the DNA from MVJD did not match Francisco Acevedo's who was convicted of killing three other woman in the same fashion. Does that mean they have DNA from MVJD's killer?

Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk

 

[jessr927]

I posted it somewhere upthread when it was first published. It states "Ossipo complained that, in addition to failing to explore the possible identification of Martin, investigators have not pursued a potential suspect. He said the lead was developed after he left the department: DNA taken from under Jane Doe’s fingernails pointed to a Massachusetts man."

 

[jessr927]

Serendipity ~ as I was posting in this thread, I received the following email from News 12 Westchester:

"Dave [Wolf] said we will do something on the anniversary or right before.
Please email him a day or two before.
Thanks and happy holidays!"

So MVJD will be getting new press come February!

 

[Roselvr]

I agree that they were at a party. Broccoli could be from a crudite platter.

I'm split on whether or not she is Cathleen. There are some coincidences, but not enough to totally sell me.

She & Cathleen don't share the same freckles. Its close but not the same.

 

[Springrain]

She & Cathleen don't share the same freckles. Its close but not the same.

I don't think she's Cathleen. Too many discrepancies.

 

[jessr927]

This is a screenshot of Carleton Avenue taken from where it intersects with Route 22/South Columbus Avenue. It is literally one block long. The trees you see at the end are on its other intersecting street, East 7th Avenue. I pass by every day and it is such a short street, you can clearly see all activity going on. It baffles me how and why the killer took so much time posing MVJD in broad daylight right off of a main road.

 

[Roselvr]

Cathleen is ruled out on NamUs; George said the DNA sample is tainted. They had a partial DNA hit from skin under her finger nails

 

[Springrain]

Cathleen is ruled out on NamUs; George said the DNA sample is tainted. They had a partial DNA hit from skin under her finger nails

I saw that...apparently, the DNA belonged to a man from Massachusetts (as was mentioned a few posts back).

I would be very interested to know if he was questioned concerning MVJD's murder.

 

[Springrain]

This is a screenshot of Carleton Avenue taken from where it intersects with Route 22/South Columbus Avenue. It is literally one block long. The trees you see at the end are on its other intersecting street, East 7th Avenue. I pass by every day and it is such a short street, you can clearly see all activity going on. It baffles me how and why the killer took so much time posing MVJD in broad daylight right off of a main road.

Could he have posed her elsewhere and just dragged her body in that position, out of a car maybe? This seems like a really odd place to meticulously pose a corpse. Unless it was the dead of the night, but still...odd place.

 

[jessr927]

Could he have posed her elsewhere and just dragged her body in that position, out of a car maybe? This seems like a really odd place to meticulously pose a corpse. Unless it was the dead of the night, but still...odd place.

The Journal News article states:

"The victim’s body was discovered at 11:54 a.m. on Feb. 14, 1988, opposite 22 Carlton Ave., in a desolate, industrial area. A large German shepherd stood guard behind a fence nearby. An autopsy found the woman had bruises above the left eye and ligature markings around her neck, wrists and ankles. She had been killed roughly six to 12 hours before that, and moved to the location sometime after 10:20 a.m."

So the killer definitely put her here in the daytime, after 10:20 a.m. and before 11:54 a.m. It was a Sunday (so most places on the block were closed), but still anyone driving up and down Route 22 could clearly see down Carleton. It makes zero sense to me.

 

[catherine.]

Do we know what the business she was placed in front of us was? Maybe he worked there and had keys and that's where he kept her before putting her on the street. Although you would think LE would have looked into those possibilities.

 

[jessr927]

Do we know what the business she was placed in front of us was? Maybe he worked there and had keys and that's where he kept her before putting her on the street. Although you would think LE would have looked into those possibilities.

She is listed as being found opposite 10 Carleton (which would be J. Bass & Sons Scrap Metal & Demolition, at 9-11 Carleton - they have occupied that building since 1950 and are still there today) AND also listed as being found opposite 22 Carleton (22 is MACC - Manhattan Air Conditioning Company - I have no idea if they were located there in 1988 or not). Opposite #22 is a large fence that appears to be part of J. Bass' property.

This is a shot of 22 Carleton (MACC) on the lefthand side. The fence on the righthand side would be "opposite 22 Carleton." This is showing Carleton as shown from South Columbus/Route 22 going towards East 7th Avenue.

 

[catherine.]

In the link it said she was placed on garage door springs. They would have had to come from the scrap yard. I can't imagine anyone driving around with those in their car. Most scrap yards are fenced and locked to ward off theft. I could be totally wrong, but I feel like he had access to one of those building somehow.

 

[jessr927]

In the link it said she was placed on garage door springs. They would have had to come from the scrap yard. I can't imagine anyone driving around with those in their car. Most scrap yards are fenced and locked to ward off theft. I could be totally wrong, but I feel like he had access to one of those building somehow.

My gut instinct agrees with you, catherine. Especially in Mt. Vernon/the Bronx, you'd want to keep people away from your scrap metal - people are still stealing copper out of buildings up here, to sell for $ for drugs. My original theory was that he or his family owned one of those businesses.

 

[Roselvr]

My gut instinct agrees with you, catherine. Especially in Mt. Vernon/the Bronx, you'd want to keep people away from your scrap metal - people are still stealing copper out of buildings up here, to sell for $ for drugs. My original theory was that he or his family owned one of those businesses.

Or he used to work there. I think he was sending a message to the scrap yard owners which makes me remember a mechanic that used to work for us at my dads gas station. He had threatened to kill my dad at one time. He ended up marrying a gal, living with her & her mom in Plainfield NJ. Not sure what set him off, but he ended up killing his MIL, then cutting her hands off. I could see him doing something like this to send a message to my dad that he was next.