NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #1

[Dushi]

Some further observations after reading the excellent input from everyone, here. The fleshing out of this era and location are taking shape. Even though it doesn’t seem like this woman could still be alive, she well might be.

• Viet Nam American exit 1973-1975. -

• Drinking age- 18 in 1974, disco era in full swing but big clubs like Studio 54, Mudd Club, etc. opened in the late 70’s. -Dancing was big time fun back then.

• Roe vs Wade – 1973. Abortion is a still a hot bed of controversy, today but back then it was total heartbreak, compounded with shame decision. Could Sylvia’s first abortion compel her to become engaged to quell the “shame” of her family, and society’s shame? She was pregnant at the time of her disappearance? (Sorry if I am dense). This was a very confusing time for women, men, and especially traditional families. Things like living out of wedlock and abortion tore some families apart.

IMO -I feel a more filled out portrait of Sylvia’s family and friends will give some clues. (all imo)

• -Her father. Perhaps a really complex relationship here, drinking, inappropriate behavior at party is contrasted with disciplined, contained military training. Father is a military man. -Traditional family? -Strong feelings about counter culture? This divide was so great, some kids were excommunicated from their families if they didn’t ‘straighten up and fly right’.

• -Her mother. What was her relationship like with her mother? Could she talk to her mom about her troubles? Or was she passive in deference to her father? (My mother was my rock and as wild as I was back then I know I could never have broken her heart and run away, forever.)

• -Her brother, younger? Were they close? Dushi, how would one even go about inviting him to a WS discussion? I wouldn’t even know what to say?

• -Her friends. Could they help give a sense of Sylvia’s assertiveness or timidity? Would they protect her? In my short-term rebellious “run-aways”--afternoons, overnights, etc., my friends would never divulge my whereabouts!
• -Her fiancé. I was struck by the quoted language of his description of what happened that night to LE. Did he really talk like that? (“wuz, cuz”) It seems incongruous as he was a Music Ed. Major at NYU?

Sylvia was a beautiful woman in an era of free thinkers, new directions, philosophy and religion. Romance is everywhere. How did her fiancé handle the advances of other men?

I am pretty amazed at how many of us are in Sylvia’s age group. I remember those times as completely tumultuous and creatively brilliant. Those were the days….

I think the friends could enlighten us
Often , at that age, it is out friends that we confide it. They often know more about our inner thoughts and feelings than a family member

I understand she was angry with her Dad, but, is there more?

What things were going on between S and the BF


LOL, the Wuz/cuz is just gajonka paraphrasing

 

[Dushi]

I do think we forget how shameful it was back then to be pregnant out of wedlock-nobody gives it a second thought now, but at that time, it would have been a big, big problem, and none of the solutions were ideal. I really wonder if this was her problem. I wish the mother was still alive to fill in the blanks-she might have known.

I can't help but wonder about this

Is that what the disagreement in the car was about...

 

[Jmoose]

I was just thinking about other criminals, and being in the wrong place at the wrong time...a criminal named Richard Biegenwald ( referenced here by someone earlier in this case) had been paroled in June 1975. His victims had typically been from NJ, however, several of them had been buried in the yard at his mother's house on Clove Rd, Staten Island-in the Port Richmond section of Staten Island. Hard to tell distance ( length of time walking ), but it didn't seem all that far from fiance's parents' house on College Ave. I don't know how to post the map of Staten Island, though. Biegenwald died in custody in 2008, so no help there with this. All of the bodies attributed to him are identified, and none are Sylvia's, but what if there are more bodies that they never found?

 

[Dushi]

I wonder how many unidentified are listed that go back to that period
I suppose any remains found, would have been ruled out?

 

[Dragonfyree]

This may be off the wall, and I may have missed this in the messages, but do we know if her mom and brother were home at that time - early evening?

Is it possible she went home.

She was already mad at her BF. Maybe coming home and seeing her father drinking reminded her of the episode a few days before and they got into a fight and she ended up dead.

May be why the mother didn't want any publicity - but needed to report her missing or it would look suspicious.

 

[Dushi]

This may be off the wall, and I may have missed this in the messages, but do we know if her mom and brother were home at that time - early evening?

Is it possible she went home.

She was already mad at her BF. Maybe coming home and seeing her father drinking reminded her of the episode a few days before and they got into a fight and she ended up dead.

May be why the mother didn't want any publicity - but needed to report her missing or it would look suspicious.

We don't know much I am afraid
We do know that for whatever reason, she had a fight with her BF

The BF said they argued
AFAIK, he was the last one to see her

 

[rosemadderlake]

I dunno, I guess I find that I usually don't have anything to contribute with newer cases, because (I'd like to think anyway) all the available technology has been used, the initial articles are easily available, facebook pages are made, etc.

With the older cases, it often seems like they did a search at the time, then just let it go... and I see so many things that could be done now that couldn't back then. Or sometimes a similar case that happened later that seems connected but they never caught it because they set the first case aside...

Sometime the older ones won't have a photo... so I try to find one in old newspapers, yearbooks, etc.

I guess I just feel useless when it comes to more recent cases, is the best way I can describe it.

bbm Very interesting--They really are the forgotten mysteries, forgotten times, with an exception--I saw there was an Amelia Earheart thread! Though now, one can utilize technology, to its best advantage, for a second look, too...

I have been having wonderful flashbacks, thinking back to my youth before all this technology, before one could record their life, every moment in a sea of recorded moments. And I wonder, is life being lived or lived to be recorded? Life was simpler when I grew up and sometimes I really miss that.

--When Sarah went missing, a FB page was created and a huge citizen search launched. The page garnered 20,000 likes, more than double the entire population of the two river towns involved. Unbelievable.

Sylvia's case is indeed mysterious and kind of heartbreaking in its inactivity all these years.

 

[Dushi]

bbm Very interesting--They really are the forgotten mysteries, forgotten times, with an exception--I saw there was an Amelia Earheart thread! Though now, one can utilize technology, to its best advantage, for a second look, too...

I have been having wonderful flashbacks, thinking back to my youth before all this technology, before one could record their life, every moment in a sea of recorded moments. And I wonder, is life being lived or lived to be recorded? Life was simpler when I grew up and sometimes I really miss that.

--When Sarah went missing, a FB page was created and a huge citizen search launched. The page garnered 20,000 likes, more than double the entire population of the two river towns involved. Unbelievable.

Sylvia's case is indeed mysterious and kind of heartbreaking in its inactivity all these years.

Yes
That bothers me

 

[rosemadderlake]

I think the friends could enlighten us
Often , at that age, it is out friends that we confide it. They often know more about our inner thoughts and feelings than a family member

I understand she was angry with her Dad, but, is there more?

What things were going on between S and the BF


LOL, the Wuz/cuz is just gajonka paraphrasing

Yes, a close friend may know much more than her family at the time of her disappearance

What about her school records? Especially college, she may have confided in an advisor?

bbm: If the pool party incident is as embarrassing as it sounds I would go further and say possibly disillusioned with the intentions of men.

IMO -Ah, I see, the relaying what the fiance told LE is an interpretation? -The Wuz/cuz paraphrasing kind of casts a light on the fiance that may or may not be true?

 

[Dushi]

Yes, a close friend may know much more than her family at the time of her disappearance

What about her school records? Especially college, she may have confided in an advisor?

bbm: If the pool party incident is as embarrassing as it sounds I would go further and say possibly disillusioned with the intentions of men.

IMO -Ah, I see, the relaying what the fiance told LE is an interpretation? -The Wuz/cuz paraphrasing kind of casts a light on the fiance that may or may not be true?

I don't doubt the source but as you know, that is an opinion only

I expect family and friends have made up their minds because (A)they know more than we do so far or (B) they have had 38 years to think about this and based on opinion and personal feelings, have reached a conclusion. Not what is known but what is felt

I believe intuition is often a good tool

 

[Saracen]

I wonder how many unidentified are listed that go back to that period
I suppose any remains found, would have been ruled out?

I know this sounds a bit gruesome, but in those days what did they do with unidentified remains?, were they buried in unmarked graves, cremated?.. With modern day DNA profiling i wonder how many of them could now be indentified??

 

[rosemadderlake]

I do think we forget how shameful it was back then to be pregnant out of wedlock-nobody gives it a second thought now, but at that time, it would have been a big, big problem, and none of the solutions were ideal. I really wonder if this was her problem. I wish the mother was still alive to fill in the blanks-she might have known.

bbm: young women were sent away to relatives, far away to have the baby, then put up for adoption, were sent to Switzerland for an abortion if they were affluent, or did themselves great harm in trying to self-abort, too.

 

[Dushi]

I know this sounds a bit gruesome, but in those days what did they do with unidentified remains?, were they buried in unmarked graves, cremated?.. With modern day DNA profiling i wonder how many of them could now be indentified??

I expect many... if someone is looking

Thats what bothers me most.. was anyone looking?
I read one page somwhere that had her name among those ruled out in a unidentified case

 

[Dushi]

But, I would think that with todays modern technology, her info is in a data base and when unidentified are run through, missing people may be ruled out ????

 

[Odyssey]

But, I would think that with todays modern technology, her info is in a data base and when unidentified are run through, missing people may be ruled out ????

This is the UID database

www.identifyus.org


If you want to browse through it and see if anything jumps out at you, each UID usually lists everyone who has been ruled out so far...

 

[Odyssey]

Sylvia's case is indeed mysterious and kind of heartbreaking in its inactivity all these years.

Unfortunately, there are tons of old cases like this, and yes, it is heartbreaking!

 

[Jmoose]

I expect many... if someone is looking

Thats what bothers me most.. was anyone looking?
I read one page somwhere that had her name among those ruled out in a unidentified case

If she has been ruled out in unidentified cases, doesn't that mean that somebody official is actually working on her case? If they (LE) think she disappeared voluntarily, would they even consider her in the attempt to ID some remains?

 

[Odyssey]

If she has been ruled out in unidentified cases, doesn't that mean that somebody official is actually working on her case? If they (LE) think she disappeared voluntarily, would they even consider her in the attempt to ID some remains?

That's not always how it works. You or I or anybody else can look through the missing persons and the UID's and submit a possible match. That information is submitted to the lab that keeps the DNA samples, and they do a comparison if they agree that it could be a match. Alot of websleuthers submit possible matches.

In other cases, it is the law enforcement that has the remains that initiates the comparison, and not the law enforcement associated with the missing person.

 

[Jmoose]

That's not always how it works. You or I or anybody else can look through the missing persons and the UID's and submit a possible match. That information is submitted to the lab that keeps the DNA samples, and they do a comparison if they agree that it could be a match. Alot of websleuthers submit possible matches.

In other cases, it is the law enforcement that has the remains that initiates the comparison, and not the law enforcement associated with the missing person.

Thanks for the perspective on it-I have never submitted any possible matches, and thought that LE would be in charge of the submissions. So then, it is not possible that LE would have said something like-"don't bother checking that match because she is missing voluntarily", or something like that? I don't think I am asking that question right, but hopefully you know what I mean

 

[Dushi]

Thanks for the perspective on it-I have never submitted any possible matches, and thought that LE would be in charge of the submissions. So then, it is not possible that LE would have said something like-"don't bother checking that match because she is missing voluntarily", or something like that? I don't think I am asking that question right, but hopefully you know what I mean

I know what you are saying
That was my thought

She left so don't bother....... type of attitude