NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #1

[GoingByMyGut]

BBM

Since you state an argument ensued and SL kicked her Father, would you describe her as angry, as well as very embarrassed?

IOW, it appears possible, IMO, that SL could very well have thrown her glasses on the dashboard during an argument w/her BF/F.

Yes, drinking age in NYC 1975 was 18 yo.

And BTW, thank you for your many replies to all on the thread.

BBM: For me, the earlier hesitation about whether she would have thrown her glasses wasn't bc of not being able to see her angry. I agree that's a possibility. As someone who wears glasses, it just wouldn't occur to me to take them off and throw them. Anything else at hand, sure, but why rip the glasses off your face that help you see? It would be like taking off your earrings and throwing them. JMO

 

[GoingByMyGut]

EOA: End of April?

Graduation from private colleges, some in early May.

Too early. Pools in NE (even private ones) don't open until later ... close to Memorial Day.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

End of August

Yes, that makes sense. Not just weatherwise, but as an occasion for a party as well.

 

[alliemay]

This thought is all MOO. I had a boyfriend once who liked to buy me things and throw them up in my face when we argued. I am a stubborn person, German descent and a Taurus. When this would happen between us I would want to throw everything he ever bought for me at him. Didn't matter what is was. I know that SL was not working yet and still living with her parents so I would assume the parents bought her glasses. But what if the BF bought them, and then spent a chunk of money on the ring. What if he brought this up during the argument. I would certainly be mad enough to toss the ring and the glasses. He has no use for the glasses so he returns them but he does have use for the ring. Like I said all moo, just random thoughts.

 

[alliemay]

Too early. Pools in NE (even private ones) don't open until later ... close to Memorial Day.

Was the pool party at her house?

 

[Dushi]

This thought is all MOO. I had a boyfriend once who liked to buy me things and throw them up in my face when we argued. I am a stubborn person, German descent and a Taurus. When this would happen between us I would want to throw everything he ever bought for me at him. Didn't matter what is was. I know that SL was not working yet and still living with her parents so I would assume the parents bought her glasses. But what if the BF bought them, and then spent a chunk of money on the ring. What if he brought this up during the argument. I would certainly be mad enough to toss the ring and the glasses. He has no use for the glasses so he returns them but he does have use for the ring. Like I said all moo, just random thoughts.

I see what you are saying.
She was so angry with him, she threw everything at him that he may have bought her
Certainly a possibility

 

[Dushi]

Was the pool party at her house?

Respectfully snipped..

graduation/pool party at her home.


MMQC posted, #739, page 30

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Rose, loved your timeline ... I worked on another one yesterday as well. I included a few more things in it than you did -- you may have omitted these things for a reason, but I am going to post mine here anyway. It's probably not as easy to read as yours, but for me, it helps to see all we've heard as a whole. Question marks next to times reflect my translation from words (e.g., "a few days later") to possible times. VIs, please weigh in if something's not right. Here it is:

Sat. afternoon-4-ish: MMQC & SL spend afternoon together. MMQC: “Mall shopping running errands etc. Dropped her off at home so she could get ready for date with BF/F. That was the last time I saw her.”

Sat. 5 or 6 PM: BF/F picks SL up at home for their date. ASWDeerHunter: “Charles came over to the residents around 5pm to see a movie Sylvia at a cinema about 20 min away.” Alternate time of “6 PM” added as per PR.

5/6-10 PM: Window of uncertainty. Date details unverified. Mall? Movie? Fight? Bus stop?

Sat. 10 PM: BF/F shows up at MMQC’s house, tells her about fight, asks her to pick SL up from the bus stop. MMQC: “I did not know exact time of DATE. What I do know is that BF/F did say after movie they had fight she got out of the car and would take the bus home.” and “He did say they had a fight and she stormed out of the car by the mall. He seemed angry.”

10-11 PM: MMQC & her father drive around the mall area, trying to find SL, but they do not find her. MMQC: “We guessed that the bus came in the time between.”

10:30 PM: BF/F drives to SL’s residence and explains what happened. ASWDeerHunter: “Charles returned to the house approx. 10:30 stating that during an argument Sylvia had thrown her glasses against the dash board of the car and ran off.” (MMQC: “I truly don't remember BF/F EVER going to parents home that night.” and re EL: “She never mentioned to me that BF/F ever came by.”)

10:45 PM-Midnight (?): EL searches for SL by car. ASWDeerHunter: “Eva then got in the car and drove around the Staten Island Mall, but didn’t see her.”

11 PM (?): MMQC talks with her parents and decides not to alarm SL’s family with her concerns about SL -- “...did not want to worry SL's parents or raise a red flag if not warrented.” She calls under the guise of needing to talk to SL for personal reasons. “I called SL home stating I needed to talk to my friend. Saying that I had an issue that I had to talk to my best friend about. No matter what time.”

Around Midnight (?): EL calls LE. ASWDeerHunter: “Eva Lwowski called the 122pct and tried to report a missing person but could not because see wasn't missing for 24 hrs. yet.” and “... it was after Eva returned from the Mall that she called the 122pct.”

2 AM-7 AM (?): EL calls MMQC. MMQC: “Then after several hours passed SL's mother called my home asking WHAT HAPPENED? SL did not return home. It was then I told her about BF/F coming to my home telling me about the fight etc.” and “She called me asking what was up as SL never came home and it was very early the next morning.”

Sun. AM: MMQC & EL search Wagner, local area. “I took her to the Wagner campus then in the morning and cruised around at our local haunts to see if she was there or if anyone had seen her.”

Sun. 6 PM: EL reports her missing to LE (time as per PR). ASWDeerhunter: “The following day, Eva went to 122 pct to make a formal missing persons report and the police basically said she was over 21 and didn’t really spend to much time or resources in locating her.” MMQC: “LE informed her that SL was an adult and was not considered missing until missing for more than 48 hours as I recall. Then they were to bring current photo and a list of what she was wearing etc. Then LE would contact them at their home to follow up and investigate.”

Mon-Tues. (?): MMQC and EL stay in touch. “For a day or two. I was in contact with SL's mother about this.”

Wed. (?): MMQC & father request help from ADA. “My parents lived next door to an ADA. I then asked my dad to come with me to ask ADA to do something. It was then someone finally contacted parents from LE.”

UNSPECIFIED: MMQC calls BF/F about SL. “I called BF/F to see if SL contacted him. He was VERY RUDE to me on phone stating he had been made a sucker of he had given her a very expensive ring and she takes off, and don't call again. His mother was having a breakdown about it and not to call again.”

“Days and weeks” after SL disappears: ASWDeerHunter: “Charles wouldn't answer and more questions concerning Sylvia.”

1-2 Weeks after disappearance: ASWDeerHunter: “A week or two later the family hired a privet investigator and am not sure of the outcome of that investigation except a different version of her running off came out.”

Just before Xmas '75: MMQC calls BF/F. MMQC: “I last spoke to BF/F just before Xmas '75. Told him Fifi died (SL's pet poodle) and he said (insert my real name) who. I reminded BF/F who I was and he cursed me and said don't ever call here again ...”

Sometime in 1979-84: MMQC hears about ring when she meets a fellow SI’er: Convo turns to SL, fellow SI’er tells MMQC that knows BF/F through his brother/band and claims BF/F is in possession of the engagement ring he gave Sl.

2010: Cold Case contacts MMQC. “Other than the cold case Det. Savage calling me in 2010 that I never spoke to LE.”

 

[GoingByMyGut]

IMO, we should put together a list of as yet unanswered Qs for our VIs. Some of these may come from unverified details in the timeline, or portions of the timeline that don't seem right to us. For example, I am wondering:

* How sure is ASWDH we that the BF/F came to SL's house after the date? Were others besides EL present when he did? Could this be a misunderstood point in a story related later? And if there is doubt, how might the detail about the glasses emerged?

* What ever happened to the glasses? Were they returned? To whom, by whom ...

* Did SL ever become pregnant with BF/F’s child? And if so, what became of the pregnancy? How did that effect SL’s relationship with the BF/F?

Please quote and add your own. I think it might be helpful to the VIs to see all outstanding Qs in one place. JMO

 

[Jmoose]

For that matter, do we really know they even went to the mall? All we know is the pickup time, IMO. BF/F could have taken her anywhere. No one sees her after pickup, and it we have doubts about the rest of the BF/Fs story, I think we should question this too.

This has always been my thought, too

 

[Jmoose]

BBM: For me, the earlier hesitation about whether she would have thrown her glasses wasn't bc of not being able to see her angry. I agree that's a possibility. As someone who wears glasses, it just wouldn't occur to me to take them off and throw them. Anything else at hand, sure, but why rip the glasses off your face that help you see? It would be like taking off your earrings and throwing them. JMO

Well-said! I have to wear glasses or contact lenses at all times, or I can't see. It wouldn't occur to me to throw or toss them anywhere, especially someplace I am about to leave. Even if they were only reading glasses, people who grow up having to watch what they spend money on wouldn't dream of mishandling them. Unless BF/F bought them for her and mentioned it during the course of an argument, it doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Dushi]

I guess the biggest question I have about the glasses is, who has them, where are they?
BF/F said she threw them and left the car
Were the glasses returned to her family? To the police?
Has anyone ever seen the glasses after that night?
Police report mentions glasses left in the car
NamUs has glasses as part of her description

 

[Jmoose]

I guess the biggest question I have about the glasses is, who has them, where are they?
BF/F said she threw them and left the car
Were the glasses returned to her family? To the police?
Has anyone ever seen the glasses after that night?
Police report mentions glasses left in the car
NamUs has glasses as part of her description

I think the police never saw them-either the Lwowski family got them back from the BF/F, or BF/F didn't give them back and threw them out. Maybe nowadays the police might have kept them, but as city police end up storing all manner of "evidence", and sometimes lose it deep in the vaults of wherever evidence is kept, I think they had no interest in these glasses-especially since it appears that they thought this was a case of missing voluntarily. I wish we could speak to the person who contacted MMQC in 2010, but I am quite sure he wouldn't discuss this case because it is being "investigated".

 

[Dushi]

I guess it would be far too optimistic to even think that police had a look in BF/Fs car
If they didn't think there was a crime, they wouldn't bother looking...

 

[rosemadderlake]

As with time all things do tend to go by the way side. EL truly did believe or made her self believe that I always knew where SL was. Calls through the years reinforced that. EL called me to tell me that she wanted to know what to do with the engagement presents that were in the home. Called again to ask SL to pick up personal things. Called again to ask me to tell SL to come and get her china as she wanted her to have it not brothers GF. EL visited my mother too.

It got harder as the years passed to keep telling EL that I did not know where SL was. Even harder for me to keep talking to EL. I visited on occasion but the visits got fewer and farther between. I drove by one day and saw brother on crutches in yard and then pulled over to find out why. Motorcycle accident and then visited for a while. I returned to my home feeling sad and empty as I lost a great friend and an extension of what would have been a frienship so great that we all felt like family. We both came from a small family that was getting smaller and smaller year by year.

bbm: MMQC -Don't know why but I think I understand this – It is not a rational thing but perhaps more about safe harbor - that EL couldn't let herself, bring herself to think the alternative. So, better to think her daughter was mad at her, the family, whatever and staying with you or nearby - as you and Sylvia would always do when escaping each other’s families. In some strange way it was comforting. –If that makes sense?

As the years go by, without knowing what happened, where does the broken heart go? Where does it live? To mourn the loss of someone is a definite thing. But, to live with this kind of uncertainty all these years draws upon strength in any human being that is equally uncertain.

In our focus, through your memories, there is the raising of the energy level (the life-force) on Sylvia. In this contemplation, there is the hope for that one piece, clue, thought, remembrance, or witness that may help to find her.

Your willingness and responses to the avalanche of inquiry most definitely calls her spirit to life. (imo) And, there is much to honor, here. --What a great friend you are. --And hopefully in some way, collectively, we can help to honor her, too.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Rose, loved your timeline ... I worked on another one yesterday as well. I included a few more things in it than you did -- you may have omitted these things for a reason, but I am going to post mine here anyway. It's probably not as easy to read as yours, but for me, it helps to see all we've heard as a whole. Question marks next to times reflect my translation from words (e.g., "a few days later") to possible times. VIs, please weigh in if something's not right. Here it is:

GBMG - excellent filled out timeline. We are both working towards the same goal - to get a useful picture of the sequence of events.

I wanted to put a (VI) timeline together with just confirmed information, no question marks. It helped me see that 'window' of uncertainty.

 

[rosemadderlake]

This thought is all MOO. I had a boyfriend once who liked to buy me things and throw them up in my face when we argued. I am a stubborn person, German descent and a Taurus. When this would happen between us I would want to throw everything he ever bought for me at him. Didn't matter what is was. I know that SL was not working yet and still living with her parents so I would assume the parents bought her glasses. But what if the BF bought them, and then spent a chunk of money on the ring. What if he brought this up during the argument. I would certainly be mad enough to toss the ring and the glasses. He has no use for the glasses so he returns them but he does have use for the ring. Like I said all moo, just random thoughts.

bbm: imo - this is a real possibility. There's the machismo of the expensive ring.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

I think the police never saw them-either the Lwowski family got them back from the BF/F, or BF/F didn't give them back and threw them out. Maybe nowadays the police might have kept them, but as city police end up storing all manner of "evidence", and sometimes lose it deep in the vaults of wherever evidence is kept, I think they had no interest in these glasses-especially since it appears that they thought this was a case of missing voluntarily. I wish we could speak to the person who contacted MMQC in 2010, but I am quite sure he wouldn't discuss this case because it is being "investigated".

BBM: I was thinking this might also be why we don't have more of the case file.

 

[Jmoose]

I guess it would be far too optimistic to even think that police had a look in BF/Fs car
If they didn't think there was a crime, they wouldn't bother looking...

I would bet they didn't look in his car

 

[rosemadderlake]

I think the police never saw them-either the Lwowski family got them back from the BF/F, or BF/F didn't give them back and threw them out. Maybe nowadays the police might have kept them, but as city police end up storing all manner of "evidence", and sometimes lose it deep in the vaults of wherever evidence is kept, I think they had no interest in these glasses-especially since it appears that they thought this was a case of missing voluntarily. I wish we could speak to the person who contacted MMQC in 2010, but I am quite sure he wouldn't discuss this case because it is being "investigated".

bbm: We may not be able to, but perhaps through this process of gathering up the memories, timeline, and reactivation of information, Sylvia's family and friends will feel more empowered, less shut out, and can follow up for themselves.

There is a list of names that the parents gave to LE when they filed the missing person report. I wonder what legal recourse would be available to Sylvia's family in terms of discovery, as well.