NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #1

[epiphany]

Some become their parents; Many others do not.

IF others' past wrong doings might be held against me, I'm going to be very careful, even IF I'm NOT involved in her disappearance.

 

[epiphany]

We have speculated about a second pregnancy and its been said that she did not have the ring

Yes, unless it becomes Verified Insider info, or the reports are updated to indicate otherwise, an "eyeballing" of the ring in his possession, will not do it for me, personally.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

:what:

Yes, I guess publicity is relative to the time. The resources were very different then- no Websleuths, AMW, etc. It certainly does look, though, like the police took "no publicity" to mean "just forget about it"

I'm behind a few pages here ... busy bees!

I'm thinking the police-public climate was dramatically different at the time. Very much an "us and them" mentality. The Newark riots -- 1967, Camden -- 1971. The NYPD was rampant with graft and corruption (Serpico was written in the early 70s.) There was no such thing as "community policing" and I think police were uncomfortable with where the line was between "crime" and "family matter." Publicity about "missing" cases? I remember very few. Etan Patz comes to mind (1972), and that publicity was very parent/public driven. The "missing children" movement got its start based on that case. Amber Alerts and a sophistated understanding about how to handle "missing" cases was years away. People SL's age fell into a funny space -- as someone said, because they were "adults," and as others have said, because the generational divide was wide and police easily tossed them off as disgruntled or runaways. Just some thoughts on all this. You have all probably moved on from the topic by now ... I'll catch up.

 

[epiphany]

As we have bantered about, perhaps, she threw the ring at him upon the argument. Or, perhaps, he demanded it back.

All reports indicate the engagement ring was last in her possession. Course, I'll be first one hopping around if I hear it somehow got in his possession, and he had not initially told LE he had the ring.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Do we know yet if she was classified ?

Help -- what's that (BBM) mean?

 

[Dushi]

Help -- what's that (BBM) mean?

I think missing endangered verus missing because she ran away???

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Skeet - says here on case report "Missing" "Cold Case". Is that what you are referring to?

https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/case_report_html/7574

All this talk about the 70s, then reading the BF explanation on the above report, brought back for me how little women were taken seriously back then. (And dang did it p___ me off!). There is just something about the BF explanation that goes to this -- "she thew her glasses against the dashboard and ran from the car" It seems designed to make SL appear irrational, b____y, spoiled, demanding -- all the things that make a cluster of guys shake their head and say, "Uh-huh, yeah -- we know what you're up against." And after that, you can forget about the mother trying to sway their thinking in another direction. Grrr ...

 

[epiphany]

I think missing endangered verus missing because she ran away???

Why would she be endangered? Was she on medication? Did a witness observe her getting into another vehicle?

At 22 yo, how could she be a considered a runaway...? She's an adult, and most of us grew up a lot earlier then, than current times.

22 yo today, some of them still very immature vs 22 yo then. MOO

 

[GoingByMyGut]

bbm: I wonder if at the time of the police report filing they were asked if any publicity was generated? Or, is that stating the wishes of the parents?

Thats a good point. It is rather unclear

Except that the PR specifically states "Publicty DESIRED: No." I don't think that's ambiguous. JMO

 

[Dushi]

Why would she be endangered? Was she on medication? Did a witness observe her getting into another vehicle?

At 22 yo, how could she be a considered a runaway...? She's an adult, and most of us grew up a lot earlier then, than current times.

22 yo today, some of them still very immature vs 22 yo then. MOO[








I don't know
someone up thread listed how these cases are classified . As in there is no classification called runaway

I don't remember what the classifications are but they are several pages back

So the word "runaway is wrong"


To be clear


Missing, not because it was her idea
Missing, because she chose to

And that is my take on skeets post

 

[epiphany]

Here's something I was thinking about and I hope you can all do me a favor so we can get a consensus of different personalities and how they would react.

Please put yourself in the fiance's shoes for a minute. It's the 1970's, you're in your 20's, you're driving and your non-live-in significant other is in the passenger seat. You get into an argument (use your own imagination for what the argument would be about), and your significant other storms out of the car. There are no cell phones, facebook, etc.

What would you do?

I think I would let him go and I'd go home, or somewhere to cool off... and let him cool off as well. I don't think I would go straight to his parents house, since I wouldn't think anything was wrong other than an argument.

If I felt I was in the wrong, I might call him a few hours later to apologize. If I got no answer, I might go to his house to apologize, or I might think he didn't want to talk to me yet and give it more time. I wouldn't get his parents involved in our business.

If I felt HE was in the wrong, I probably would wait at least a day, maybe even longer, thinking he should call me to apologize. If I got a call from his family saying he never came home, however, I would probably get worried and start trying to find him.

I wouldn't think he was missing otherwise.

If I did hear he was missing from his family, even if THEY didn't want publicity, I would - I was the last person to see him, and assuming I wasn't guilty of anything, I would want anyone who saw him walking alone to come forward... and I would feel guilty that the argument happened, would want him to know I loved him, etc... I'd be posting signs and contacting the newspaper, etc.

That's me... maybe other people would have different reactions.

BBM

First off, as another poster indicated, I love your thought-provoking post!

Are you asking me to be who I am in his shoes/position, or to be who I understand him to be, and place myself in his shoes/position?

If the latter, I don't clearly understand who he is, what makes him tick, so very difficult for me to say.

All I can say is human behavior is very complex, and without a deeper understanding of his background, who he was then (same for Sylvia), I can speculate, but doesn't mean that's what either of them would do.

For me, it's what would each of them have done at that time in their lives. And I don't know what their usual behaviors were.

 

[Jmoose]

:blushing:

Why would she be endangered? Was she on medication? Did a witness observe her getting into another vehicle?

At 22 yo, how could she be a considered a runaway...? She's an adult, and most of us grew up a lot earlier then, than current times.

22 yo today, some of them still very immature vs 22 yo then. MOO

Not on meds, just missing via foul play versus mssing voluntarily. By the way, I agree with you about most 22 year olds these days (i have a mature 22 yr old daughter and an immature 23 yr old son).

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Originally Posted by Odyssey
I just found Sylvia's father's WWII enlistment record - he was born in 1914 (died 1993), was living in New Jersey in 1942 and is listed as "Single, with dependents."

Does that mean he had children from another marriage prior to WWII?

I wonder if he met Sylvia's mother while stationed in Germany, where they stayed for awhile and had Sylvia. Her mother was born in 1927 (died 2007) so she was 13 years younger than him and was only 15 when he enlisted...

Are dependents only children? Could he have been supporting his parents, for example?

Re the part BBM, good thought! Siblings come to mind as well. This is a generatation of WW vets, many didn't come back or came back incapacitated. This is 12 years before SL is born. It was VERY uncommon in those days for a man to have custody of kids after a divorce, and widowers quickly remarried.

So ... for that matter ... do know that this man is SL's natural father v. stepfather?

 

[Jmoose]

[/I]



Re the part BBM, good thought! Siblings come to mind as well. This is a generatation of WW vets, many didn't come back or came back incapacitated. This is 12 years before SL is born. It was VERY uncommon in those days for a man to have custody of kids after a divorce, and widowers quickly remarried.

So ... for that matter ... do know that this man is SL's natural father v. stepfather?

Sylvia's father was one of 8 children-1 or 2 were younger than he was.

 

[epiphany]

:blushing:

Not on meds, just missing via foul play versus mssing voluntarily. By the way, I agree with you about most 22 year olds these days (i have a mature 22 yr old daughter and an immature 23 yr old son).

Yes. She is either voluntarily missing, or missing due to foul play. Runaway connotes she is young enough to be unable to think clearly for herself. She was a young adult, not financially independent yet from the little we know.

Obviously, I am trying to eliminate the likelihood that she left on her own.
Me: I'm not there yet. Should be easy to get to, though.

 

[epiphany]

Please send me - each of you - if you'd like - and if you would be kind enough - your top five questions.
She def did not runaway - and the bf was def not helpful.

The <G>

Definitely?

Please go through the WS Verified Insider process if you indeed have insider information.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

No sisters. There must have been a soon-to-be maid of honor, a bridesmaid or two.

Engagement announcement in paper, marrying on the earlier side of age-range for college-educated female, still living at home...not "moved in" with BF...

Did she usually return home each night to the parents home? Did she have to?

Many of us did not come home every night in those days, and at a much younger age than 22!

re the 1st part BBM: I think this was still an average age for the time, with marrying later a phemon of the 80s and 90s.

re the 2nd part BBM: This was still quite controversial in many families. Engaged couples were often not permitted to sleep in the same room at parents' homes.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

I mention her GFs because there's no sister available to cover for her, IF necessary, so-to-speak. She's 22 and seemingly living up to "expectations." Engagement announcement in media, going to legally marry, attended college, living at home, expected to sleep home each night, etc...

Where did the couple go when they wanted to be alone...any GFs on their own? renting their own places, in/out of borough?

One word: Car. Secluded place. "Lover's Lane." Car.

 

[Jmoose]

Yes. She is either voluntarily missing, or missing due to foul play. Runaway connotes she is young enough to be unable to think clearly for herself. She was a young adult, not financially independent yet from the little we know.

Obviously, I am trying to eliminate the likelihood that she left on her own.
Me: I'm not there yet. Should be easy to get to, though.

When I first started looking at this thread I considered that it was possible that it happened as the fiance said. We don't have any actual evidence that something bad happened to her, but logically, it's unlikely that she ran away, never to contact any family member again.

 

[epiphany]

This was still quite controversial in many families. Engaged couples were often not permitted to sleep in the same room at parents' homes.

Agree!! So we are speculating about pregnancy/ies, yet where did they go to be alone? Were there available places to spend time alone together, such as a peer who might allow them to use their place?