NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #2

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  • #201
I also have a hard time with it-but if I want to examine all possibilities, then I wonder if there are other aspects of either her home life or her social life to consider, to contemplate voluntarily missing? We have very few puzzle pieces, and, as someone here said, one of the pieces, almost certainly would be the content of Sylvia's last argument with BF/F. I think it could well have been the pregnancy and abortion-that could lead to several possibilities.

You never know who may be observing.

Wow - tons of work - and all I could produce is a hyper-link- well, it's not pretty but - please select hyperlink below (either one ;-)

This is a general look at a one hour and 45 minute trip from SI to Bucks. Zoom in.... Note terrain (maybe satellite view and zoom). We'll wrap a two hour plane of time at 360 degrees.

{This is Only 8% - I know - but I have a good idea - around 25%}





http://mapq.st/XtttBX


http://mapq.st/XtttBX



XtttBX
[/COLOR]
 
  • #202
So true... but so sad at the same time. Something like this shouldn't have to be about money...

I know-why wouldn't someone do the right thing without being paid?
 
  • #203

You never know who may be observing.

Wow - tons of work - and all I could produce is a hyper-link- well, it's not pretty but - please select hyperlink below (either one ;-)

This is a general look at a one hour and 45 minute trip from SI to Bucks. Zoom in.... Note terrain (maybe satellite view and zoom). We'll wrap a two hour plane of time at 360 degrees.

{This is Only 8% - I know - but I have a good idea - around 25%}





http://mapq.st/XtttBX


http://mapq.st/XtttBX



XtttBX
[/COLOR]

Gajonka-is that specific address purposeful? Did you mean to end up in Doylestown, my former home, and still home of my parents? ( not literally on that street, but close enough, lol). What is it about that particular spot on Enders Rd? If it matters, I don't think those houses and streets were there in 1975-it was all farm land then, I think
 
  • #204
Did Sylvia have her license and her own car?
 
  • #205
Did Sylvia have her license and her own car?

I seem to recall MMQC saying that Sylvia did have her license-but she didn't mention a car
 
  • #206
Along those same lines, I am convinced she didn't voluntarily disappear. Without the Internet, I don't think she would have known to cover all the tracks that would later surface on the internet.

I think someone who left voluntarily back in those days would have maybe moved to another state and kept an unlisted phone number... but the idea that she's never worked, never filed a tax return, married, gotten a traffic ticket, gotten a drivers license, voted, etc. makes me think it's unlikely. I just can't see her going to all that trouble to stay under the radar. She was college educated, and came from a good family, I suppose it's possible but I just don't see it...

JMO

Unless she changed her name....and started completely over....I don't actually think this, BTW. Just covering things that could be possible. There are also several possibilities I cannot post due to rules on whom we can and cannot sleuth.

ETA: It was not that hard in the 70's to get a different SSN. We didn't get them at birth back then.

Post 806, ASWDeerHunter, Thread One:
Sylvia was extremely predicable in as she was so straight lace you could set you clock by her. She lived with her parents and when she did go out, she said were she was going and when she'll back back on the money. Grade A student, deans list constantly, no cavities etc.
The night of the incident, the police were called after Eva returned from the Mall and not seeing Sylvia.
As far as the overall search has now proceeded, All mental hospitals in the U.S. were checked, passport office for a match, all airport, cruise ships, charters, any means of transport out of the U. S. were checked. All prisons, missing or unidentified bodies/coroner dept all states. To this present time all rocks have been turned.

Re Odyssey's post, I agree that it's more "possible" than "likely," but I guess without more information to fully discredit it, I'm unable to let it go. It also occurs to me that this is most hopeful of all scenarios, where SL is concerned, so I also like that it still stands alongside the darker possibilities in my mind.

Hello, Ghostwheel -- This adds "meat" to the word "possibility" for me as well. The name change could have come easily, through marriage, or be her own creation. Maybe as a runaway, she went by an alias and it stuck.

Re the part BBM, I brought ASWDeerHunter's post forward for the new posters, as well as to refresh my own mind. I remember some discussion about the SSN in thread one that followed much along the lines of what is happening here now, that it was not something everyone got right away -- marriage may even have been when it would first be needed, but I am not sure of that. Do we even know she had one at 22?

I am guessing that the passport was needed for her to travel from Germany to the U.S. when she was very little. Did she need an SSN to get one from the consulate at that time? Or only her parents' say-so that she was their child? If she never had an SSN, she could truly have started fresh.

Also, I don't believe a driver's license was ever verified. ASWDH doesn't mention it. And while MMQC has described times when she drove SL places -- and when SL's father drove SL to Wagner -- I don't recall hearing any stories in which Sylvia drove.

Would a birth certificate be needed for a marriage license in those days? Would it be needed to get an SSN? A DL? I wonder, given the out-of-the-country birth, how this was handled. She would have been a citizen by virtue of her father's citizenship, right? Whereas her mother may have been naturalized? Did she have an official BC?

In any case, if SL's decision to flee was spontaneous, I doubt she would have had any of these documents in her possession (except a DL if she had one), so she would literally have had to start from scratch. It's possible she could have applied for new copies of existing documents, but would good would they be if she changed her name?

Yes, the best possible scenario, IMO, would be that she connected with a runaway network that helped young people create new lives for themselves, complete with all of this documentation. Not saying likely, just possible -- and clinging to it. (ETA: And it would be one way of explaining how she's managed to stay out of the limelight of the interweb.)

MMQC or ASWDeerHunter, can you tell us anything about these documents?
 
  • #207
O/T but true story (no links).

Have close childhood friend. His wife's Mother moves into their Mother-Daughter home some years after her husband passes. When appeared to be eligible to collect SS, postpones collecting for years and years.

My friend, the Son-in-Law and an attorney, eventually approaches...Mom (to his MIL), I'm going to file the papers for you. It's well past the time. MIL protests, but he files anyway.

Long story short: bounces back>this individual does not match up...this individual is ___...origins in ____state, etc. MIL finally admits, I am ____years of age, but nothing else. About or close to a decade older than what children thought.

MIL: No, not explaining my past to you...sorry, no deal, doesn't matter...I was a good Mother (paraphrasing). All agree. However...

Her two children demand to know exactly who she really is, where she is from, why is she hiding who she is/was, what is she covering up...they grew up believing she had been orphaned at a young age (All had believed her parents died in fire or auto accident-can't recall which), no sibs and met their Father in NYC and married him.

She refuses to divulge true identity, history, etc. Friend hires PI to work on it, but encounters dead ends. Eventually, my friend tells his wife & BIL, your Mother has been a good woman and Mother, still is and let it go.

Beautiful woman (Eastern European ancestry)...her true age was shocking to all who have met her. To this day, no idea who she really was, and why she did what she did.

And there it is, the icing on what's possible. What an intriguing story. Thanks for that, epiphany.
 
  • #208
By the end of this week, there will be a $25,000 reward for anyone providing information that leads to an arrest and conviction in this case or for information leading to the whereabouts of Sylvia dead or alive.
The roll out will commence on 4/12/2013.

This is awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
  • #209

You never know who may be observing.

Wow - tons of work - and all I could produce is a hyper-link- well, it's not pretty but - please select hyperlink below (either one ;-)

This is a general look at a one hour and 45 minute trip from SI to Bucks. Zoom in.... Note terrain (maybe satellite view and zoom). We'll wrap a two hour plane of time at 360 degrees.

{This is Only 8% - I know - but I have a good idea - around 25%}

http://mapq.st/XtttBX
http://mapq.st/XtttBX


Gajonka-is that specific address purposeful? Did you mean to end up in Doylestown, my former home, and still home of my parents? ( not literally on that street, but close enough, lol). What is it about that particular spot on Enders Rd? If it matters, I don't think those houses and streets were there in 1975-it was all farm land then, I think

Hi, Gajonka -- I'm curious about that too. Did you choose that pin drop (xxxx Enders Way) for a reason? Or was it random? Regarding the terrain, I see a road in subdivision that dead-ends in a cul-de-sac (which is where xxxx is), adjacent to farmland, but JMoose could certainly be right that it was all farmland in the 1970s. I am from the area, too, and as far as I know, that terrain is pretty flat. There are some hills/mountains farther east between Solebury and Buckingham. What is it exactly that you want us to see?
 
  • #210
Hi, Gajonka -- I'm curious about that too. Did you choose that pin drop (XXXX Enders Way) for a reason? Or was it random? Regarding the terrain, I see a road in subdivision that dead-ends in a cul-de-sac (which is where XXXX is), adjacent to farmland, but JMoose could certainly be right that it was all farmland in the 1970s. I am from the area, too, and as far as I know, that terrain is pretty flat. There are some hills/mountains farther east between Solebury and Buckingham. What is it exactly that you want us to see?

GBMG-I wonder if Gajonka is pointing out a small ridge in the corner of the backyard of the house just before the cul-de-sac. The satellite view of that house on Enders Way shows it. I wonder whose house that is or was? I believe the houses there were built about 25 years ago, but not before that.
 
  • #211
Hi, Gajonka -- I'm curious about that too. Did you choose that pin drop (xxxx Enders Way) for a reason? Or was it random? Regarding the terrain, I see a road in subdivision that dead-ends in a cul-de-sac (which is where xxxx is), adjacent to farmland, but JMoose could certainly be right that it was all farmland in the 1970s. I am from the area, too, and as far as I know, that terrain is pretty flat. There are some hills/mountains farther east between Solebury and Buckingham. What is it exactly that you want us to see?

bbm: Perhaps a play on words? Enders Way? It was all farmland in the 70's. Bucks County was a post card of pastoral countryside back then. --As was central Jersey.

The proposed window of 2 hours each way out to Bucks and back to SI leaves so little time to "have it together" with a story, and 2 stops that night.... I am wondering too, G - why Bucks County?
 
  • #212
GBMG-I am pretty sure that all of that land in between Cold Spring Creamery Road and Church School road was all farmed or wooded before the 80's. I am not sure what Gajonka is getting at, unless he just dropped the pin there surreptitiously. I am curious about this? What could this spot have to do with Sylvia?
 
  • #213
I know-why wouldn't someone do the right thing without being paid?

bbm: One would think so. Maybe the reward will flesh out a clue from the other side. The silent side. --Hope the reward roll out will be posted in NYC.
 
  • #214
I seem to recall MMQC saying that Sylvia did have her license-but she didn't mention a car

bbm: -I went to Canada in the 70's with just my driver’s license. I think that is all you needed for Mexico as well. And, I believe it was totally possible to cross the borders, unchecked, back then.
 
  • #215
Did Sylvia have her license and her own car?


SL had her drivers license but used the family car when possible. I had my own so we were more independent on coming and going rather than depend on the logistics of borrowing the family car. In my house it came with a whole host of added chores. So I saved and got one. The insurance cost more than the car....LOL
 
  • #216
Re Odyssey's post, I agree that it's more "possible" than "likely," but I guess without more information to fully discredit it, I'm unable to let it go. It also occurs to me that this is most hopeful of all scenarios, where SL is concerned, so I also like that it still stands alongside the darker possibilities in my mind.

Hello, Ghostwheel -- This adds "meat" to the word "possibility" for me as well. The name change could have come easily, through marriage, or be her own creation. Maybe as a runaway, she went by an alias and it stuck.

Re the part BBM, I brought ASWDeerHunter's post forward for the new posters, as well as to refresh my own mind. I remember some discussion about the SSN in thread one that followed much along the lines of what is happening here now, that it was not something everyone got right away -- marriage may even have been when it would first be needed, but I am not sure of that. Do we even know she had one at 22?

I am guessing that the passport was needed for her to travel from Germany to the U.S. when she was very little. Did she need an SSN to get one from the consulate at that time? Or only her parents' say-so that she was their child? If she never had an SSN, she could truly have started fresh.

Also, I don't believe a driver's license was ever verified. ASWDH doesn't mention it. And while MMQC has described times when she drove SL places -- and when SL's father drove SL to Wagner -- I don't recall hearing any stories in which Sylvia drove.

Would a birth certificate be needed for a marriage license in those days? Would it be needed to get an SSN? A DL? I wonder, given the out-of-the-country birth, how this was handled. She would have been a citizen by virtue of her father's citizenship, right? Whereas her mother may have been naturalized? Did she have an official BC?

In any case, if SL's decision to flee was spontaneous, I doubt she would have had any of these documents in her possession (except a DL if she had one), so she would literally have had to start from scratch. It's possible she could have applied for new copies of existing documents, but would good would they be if she changed her name?

Yes, the best possible scenario, IMO, would be that she connected with a runaway network that helped young people create new lives for themselves, complete with all of this documentation. Not saying likely, just possible -- and clinging to it. (ETA: And it would be one way of explaining how she's managed to stay out of the limelight of the interweb.)

MMQC or ASWDeerHunter, can you tell us anything about these documents?



Sylvia had a DL and SS as for the PP? I'm not 100% positive but seems logical since whe was born in Germany and had an American Father. ASWDeerHunter could fill us in on that.

Don't recall needing a BC for getting married. I just showed my DL.
 
  • #217
bbm: -I went to Canada in the 70's with just my driver’s license. I think that is all you needed for Mexico as well. And, I believe it was totally possible to cross the borders, unchecked, back then.

OH YES it was. Just needed a DL if that was even checked for Canada, In 81 I went to Mexico from CA and just drove through as a passenger in a car. WOW, things sure have changed.
 
  • #218
Which languages did Sylvia understand? Which ones did she speak?
 
  • #219
By the end of this week, there will be a $25,000 reward for anyone providing information that leads to an arrest and conviction in this case or for information leading to the whereabouts of Sylvia dead or alive.
The roll out will commence on 4/12/2013.

O M G, really? Praying for a good outcome from that.

Sad though.
 
  • #220
Gajonka-is that specific address purposeful? Did you mean to end up in Doylestown, my former home, and still home of my parents? ( not literally on that street, but close enough, lol). What is it about that particular spot on Enders Rd? If it matters, I don't think those houses and streets were there in 1975-it was all farm land then, I think

Maybe a UID was found there?

I have to go run errands right now and hubby waiting on me so I don't have time to look right now but my first thought was maybe there's something in NamUs associated with that location?
 
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