NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #2

[ASWDeerHunter]

Oh, I'm so sorry -- so Eva was a Holocaust survivor?

If it would help find answers, yea, were Jewish and were all Holocaust survivors.

 

[ASWDeerHunter]

Thanks for the info, do you remember the name of the Golf Course?

This would be one place I would look for a body.
http://www.americangolf.com/la-tourette-golf-course

 

[GoingByMyGut]

NO SHE WASN'T. She was Polish, born in Germany with the last name Czerlinski.

Thank you. I am reading this as an answer to the Holocaust survivor question. And I appreciate the clarification.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

If it would help find answers, yea, were Jewish and were all Holocaust survivors.

Oh, oops -- re my above post. I'll have to go back and figure out what you were replying to with the one that said "NO SHE WASN'T."

As to the post I have quoted here, I am not sure "Jewish" makes a difference -- some others were also prisoners -- but this experience does help me understand what a strong woman EL was and gives me immense respect for her. It also kills me that, after that, she had to endure losing a daughter. JMO

 

[GoingByMyGut]

NO SHE WASN'T. She was Polish, born in Germany with the last name Czerlinski.

Okay, so this must be an A to the Q about political involvements?

 

[GoingByMyGut]

This would be one place I would look for a body.
http://www.americangolf.com/la-tourette-golf-course

Oof, yes ... just looked at Google map of this place. This is the same area that worried me with respect to Rand. I think when you say "This would be one place I would look for a body" that you may have a particular theory in mind about how SL's body might come to be there, if that were the case. But when we were speculating about this being the young Rand's hunting grounds, I wondered if under any circumstances SL would have walked home this way alone that night. It appears to be the most direct route from the mall to her home (this or even south of the course, through the park/woods). I walked everywhere when I was her age and younger, and thought nothing of walking along RR tracks, cutting through cemeteries, etc. Do you have any idea if she did this sort of thing?

 

[alliemay]

This would be one place I would look for a body.
http://www.americangolf.com/la-tourette-golf-course

Thanks for the link and that was the way I was thinking, it would be nice to find a web site with a map from the 70's. Will try to look.

 

[Odyssey]

Thanks for the link and that was the way I was thinking, it would be nice to find a web site with a map from the 70's. Will try to look.

You just reminded me of something!

When I was looking at maps regarding the Tiahease Jackson case, I accidentally found some way to access an interactive (like Google street view) map from the 1970's or 1980's. I can't remember exactly how I did it, or what year it was from, but I do remember that the images were fuzzy. I think it may have been on Google Earth. I'll have to look back and see if I can figure it out again.

ETA: Never mind, I was wrong about the dates - it goes back to 1995 and it's hard to see anything. It was on Google Earth. I guess it's useful for the overall geography of the area, but I wasn't able to make out the theater or anything...

 

[MMQC]

MMQC - do you recall what the roads were like that led to the mall, was it a major highway at that time or were there some residential homes near by, just wondering if it were possible that if they were at a red light, if she jumped out of the car was it then possible for her to run through back yards of a near by neighborhood?

If it happened where BF/F says it happened very commercial area. SI mall. Pergament Plaza and K-Mart Plaza. Behind the mall was the golf course and a couple of farms. Along side the K-Mart area was the Fresh Kills Land Fill. All very swampy. Not the typical place to take short cut through. SL and I picked rasberries behind the Golf Course one summer day and got chiggers. So I doubt she would have taken a short cut throught there.

On the roads just the other side of the Malls were the towns of Great Kills and Eltingville, which would have been on the route to the Theater. The theater was located at the back of the Pergament Shopping area. Which puts the mall on one side and the K-Mart plaza on the other.

This is where the BF/F "says" she ran from the car. Who really knows what happened? I still think BF/F set me up for a time line for his alibi.

 

[MMQC]

This reminded me of something similar I wanted to ask:
MMQC, were any of those "lover's lane" type places you mentioned in an earlier post on the route from SL's home to the theater? Somewhere they could have stopped for a while before getting there for, say, a 7 PM showing?

Not really. You had to go further south on the island for that. Besides, it was still light out. Those places were better if it were dark.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Not really. You had to go further south on the island for that. Besides, it was still light out. Those places were better if it were dark.

BBM: Are you referring to the Conference Park area? Or other places, too?

I remembered you saying that Conference Park was a place you and SL went (I think you said to clear your heads), so I read about it online. It has a really interesting history! But it's hard to imagine what it was like at that time. Maybe more rustic? I think you mentioned sitting on the rocks looking at the ocean -- was it a cliff-y type place? or are you speaking of the rocks of a jetty?

 

[MMQC]

BBM: Are you referring to the Conference Park area? Or other places, too?

I remembered you saying that Conference Park was a place you and SL went (I think you said to clear your heads), so I read about it online. It has a really interesting history! But it's hard to imagine what it was like at that time. Maybe more rustic? I think you mentioned sitting on the rocks looking at the ocean -- was it a cliff-y type place? or are you speaking of the rocks of a jetty?

At the conference house park you could sid on the hillside and look out over the mouth of the water way leading between NJ and NY. I think it's the Raratan? and the KillVanKull that all dumped out into the ocean there. Further to the left of the conference house park was all wooded cliff like area that gradually decreased to a beach. That area was know for "parking" sites. Now it's a park with walking paths. The rest of that area was all wooded with lots of spots that looked out onto the ocean and the area of NJ that concluded with Sandy Hook. Now there are many many homes there have been affected by the Storm "Sandy". Filtered in between the beach residents were built these very large homes. This land was supposed to be designated "wet lands". Nothing was supposed to be built there. I guess money talks.

The rocks of the jetty were located in Great Kills Park. What is now called Gateway National Park. We used to ride our bikes to that park and some days sit on the beach or on the rocks or on the bulkheads of the inside of the park. Those bulkheads faced the marinas in Greak Kills. Those marinas were also destroyed by Sandy.

At night GKP was a good place for "parking" also.
http://statenislandusa.com/pages/gateway.html

http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/conferencehousepark/photos

Now mind you that was 38+ years ago. All the areas mentioned have changed since '75.

I have included the links above for both GK Park area and the Conference House Park. Both links contain photos. It was more rustic back then.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

If it happened where BF/F says it happened very commercial area. SI mall. Pergament Plaza and K-Mart Plaza. Behind the mall was the golf course and a couple of farms. Along side the K-Mart area was the Fresh Kills Land Fill. All very swampy. Not the typical place to take short cut through. SL and I picked rasberries behind the Golf Course one summer day and got chiggers. So I doubt she would have taken a short cut throught there.

On the roads just the other side of the Malls were the towns of Great Kills and Eltingville, which would have been on the route to the Theater. The theater was located at the back of the Pergament Shopping area. Which puts the mall on one side and the K-Mart plaza on the other.

This is where the BF/F "says" she ran from the car. Who really knows what happened? I still think BF/F set me up for a time line for his alibi.

BBM: MMQC, I'm confused by the boundaries of Fresh Kills landfill. Did it extend, or were other parts of it located, all the way west to the waterway between Staten Island and New Jersey? It seems like it had to have a seaport, since it received garbage from Manhattan.

 

[MMQC]

BBM: MMQC, I'm confused by the boundaries of Fresh Kills landfill. Did it extend, or were other parts of it located, all the way west to the waterway between New York and New Jersey? It seems like it had to have a seaport, since it received garbage from Manhattan.

I will post a link with a map overview of the Fresh Kills Landfill here. Scroll down to view the map.

http://acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~scintech/solid/silandfill.html

Yes it had an access between SI and NJ.

But I truly don't remember when the barges started coming to SI to dump?

 

[GoingByMyGut]

I will post a link with a map overview of the Fresh Kills Landfill here. Scroll down to view the map.

http://acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~scintech/solid/silandfill.html

Yes it had an access between SI and NJ.

That's great -- thank you so much. It was massive!

 

[MMQC]

That's great -- thank you so much. It was massive!

NYC is planning on developing the old landfill and make a GIANT Park out of it.

BTW, Great Kills Park was also a landfill many, years go.

 

[MMQC]

Here is a link to what NYC is planning on doing with the landfill.
http://www.nycgovparks.org/park-features/freshkills-park

 

[OkieGranny]

Historic Aerials has vintage aerial photos; you can see what Staten Island looked like from the air in 1966 and 1980.

http://www.historicaerials.com/

Type Staten Island, NY in the search box; it opens pretty much right over the La Tourette golf course. You can zoom in and out and move all around the island.

If I had more time, I'd try to post a screen shot for you. Sorry!

 

[MMQC]

Historic Aerials has vintage aerial photos; you can see what Staten Island looked like from the air in 1966 and 1980.

http://www.historicaerials.com/

Type Staten Island, NY in the search box; it opens pretty much right over the La Tourette golf course. You can zoom in and out and move all around the island.

If I had more time, I'd try to post a screen shot for you. Sorry!

That was "THE BEST"! Thanks for posting that!

 

[MMQC]

Not really. You had to go further south on the island for that. Besides, it was still light out. Those places were better if it were dark.

Of course if they never went to a movie???? That is still not confirmed.