NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #2

[Dushi]

IF LE looked in the car, I am thinking there was nothing to see.
Blood would require an explanation, wouldn't it??

 

[Jmoose]

And why didn't he show interest?
For the woman he was going to marry.

How do you just walk away from a situation like this?
I know everyone reacts differently to stresses in life, but , really???

I can't find an explanation that works for me

JMO

Yeah-it isn't working for me, either. I don't think I know anybody who could do that (walk away from a fiancee with whom they've quarreled, when that fiancee has disappeared). This makes the BF/F look like a sociopath, even if he wasn't the one who caused her disappearance. I think the cold case squad detectives know essentially what happened, but have no evidence. Interesting to me that Det. Savage is from the Richmond County DA's office-and not the 122 precinct or the cold case squad. Doesn't the DA's office charge people with crimes? I wonder if the 122 precinct and the Richmond County DA's office overlap somehow.

 

[Jmoose]

IF LE looked in the car, I am thinking there was nothing to see.
Blood would require an explanation, wouldn't it??

I am with you-nothing happened in his car, and they didn't go to the movies

 

[GoingByMyGut]

I wonder if that information was ever collected by the police? They could find out if the car was sold or transferred to someone else by the VIN number, couldn't they?

I think there are probably a lot of such things that constitute evidence that could have been collected that we might not even think of. IF someone worked it, that is.

I was wondering something else ... the website on that book on the NYPD cold case squad, "The Restless Sleep," seems to only consider homicide. Are we sure "missing persons" cases even go to cold case? Do they have to first be declared "homicides" based on the amount of time that's lapsed? Again, just ignorant of procedure.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Yeah-it isn't working for me, either. I don't think I know anybody who could do that (walk away from a fiancee with whom they've quarreled, when that fiancee has disappeared). This makes the BF/F look like a sociopath, even if he wasn't the one who caused her disappearance. I think the cold case squad detectives know essentially what happened, but have no evidence. Interesting to me that Det. Savage is from the Richmond County DA's office-and not the 122 precinct or the cold case squad. Doesn't the DA's office charge people with crimes? I wonder if the 122 precinct and the Richmond County DA's office overlap somehow.

I thought police charged people with crimes and the DA's office prosecuted the offenders (but that may be oversimilified as it sounds an awful lot like the Law and Order preamble!). They can probably bring charges too, but I think their main task is prosecution.

 

[Jmoose]

BBM1: This is somebody's job, right? Like an archivist, or librarian -- the "manager" of the evidence room? I am guessing -- purely guessing -- that since the CC squad has its own quarters, that evidence had to be located in its original facility, moved, and re-archived in the CC offices. And while I'm not sure they would "toss" anything related to an open case, I totally agree that there are a bazillion opportunities along the way to misfile, lose, and wrongly refile evidence.

BBM2: But I am also thinking that once CC gets the case, they could ADD to the evidence that's been stored, so in SL's case, it wouldn't necessarily have to have been collected in 1975. Hypothetically, anyway. From where we sit, it's difficult to imagine what that might be.

BBM3: I'm thinking only if it was accidental. You know? Like something was collected that happened to contain DNA -- clothing (as a source of bodily fluids, dead skin), personal belongings (hairbrush, lipstick), blood collected for typing (or on things). I don't think the prospect of DNA being deducible was on their radar at that time. Do you?

I do not think that DNA testing was on their radar, which is one of the reasons that I think some evidence may have been ignored, or possibly even tossed out after collection, as useless, because the technology at the time made it practical to do so. My police captain friend always laughs when I make a statement about police officers having a higher standard of dedication to the importance of what they do-he claims it isn't true, and I suppose he knows.

 

[Jmoose]

I thought police charged people with crimes and the DA's office prosecuted the offenders (but that may be oversimilified as it sounds an awful lot like the Law and Order preamble!). They can probably bring charges too, but I think their main task is prosecution.

I know-that's why I am perplexed! Why isn't, and hasn't he been listed as associated with one of the precincts, or even the cold case squad? I don't think it's a mistake because I have seen it several places

 

[Jmoose]

I think there are probably a lot of such things that constitute evidence that could have been collected that we might not even think of. IF someone worked it, that is.

I was wondering something else ... the website on that book on the NYPD cold case squad, "The Restless Sleep," seems to only consider homicide. Are we sure "missing persons" cases even go to cold case? Do they have to first be declared "homicides" based on the amount of time that's lapsed? Again, just ignorant of procedure.

Regarding homicide-maybe the cold case squad deals only with homicide because it's the only crime that I know of without a statute of limitations-I just started the book a couple of days ago (bought it a few years ago but never read it until now). I will let you know when I finish, if it references missing persons.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

I know-that's why I am perplexed! Why isn't, and hasn't he been listed as associated with one of the precincts, or even the cold case squad? I don't think it's a mistake because I have seen it several places

I wonder if it's a distinction between the city and the suburbs? Remember, in the SM case, the Hunterdon County Prosecutor's office (the county DA, right?) was handling the investigation. They were working with local LE, but the prosecutor was in charge. Maybe since small municipal police forces often don't have anyone experienced in investigating more serious crimes (murder, missing persons), the county DA steps in to lead, and the municpal police force works for and learns from them. Just a thought.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Regarding homicide-maybe the cold case squad deals only with homicide because it's the only crime that I know of without a statute of limitations-I just started the book a couple of days ago (bought it a few years ago but never read it until now). I will let you know when I finish, if it references missing persons.

Sounds good. In between the last few posts I bought a used paperback copy from Abe books. I had just read the "inside the book" materials on Amazon. One of the four cold cases profiled is from 1951, so it can be done! It will be interesting to see what kind of evidence was left behind for the CCDs. Also, it gives a history of the squad, which might bear on this case. To your point, the preface starts by pointing out the statute of limitations so I bet you're right. Maybe that gives even less incentive to pursue a missing persons case? Unless someone feels strongly that it points to homicide? I mean, don't they need evidence (or at least strong suspicion) of a crime as a starting point?

:lookingitup:

 

[Jmoose]

Sounds good. In between the last few posts I bought a used paperback copy from Abe books. I had just read the "inside the book" materials on Amazon. One of the four cold cases profiled is from 1951, so it can be done! It will be interesting to see what kind of evidence was left behind for the CCDs. Also, it gives a history of the squad, which might bear on this case. To your point, the preface starts by pointing out the statute of limitations so I bet you're right. Maybe that gives even less incentive to pursue a missing persons case? Unless someone feels strongly that it points to homicide? I mean, don't they need evidence (or at least strong suspicion) of a crime as a starting point?

:lookingitup:

I don't know how to "bold" a statement on my ipad, or I would have done so with your last 2 sentences-the feeling I get is that the cold case squad probably has some idea now why she disappeared and who could be responsible-but there is no evidence, so...they cannot investigate where they would like to. They can't compel a person to speak to them unless they arrest him, and they can't arrest him without evidence that leads to an arrest warrant.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

I don't know how to "bold" a statement on my ipad, or I would have done so with your last 2 sentences-the feeling I get is that the cold case squad probably has some idea now why she disappeared and who could be responsible-but there is no evidence, so...they cannot investigate where they would like to. They can't compel a person to speak to them unless they arrest him, and they can't arrest him without evidence that leads to an arrest warrant.

That makes sense to me. I just wonder how/why the case went to them in the first place. I think they'd have to know a heck of a lot more than we do to get to that position in a useful way. A hunch wouldn't be enough, IMO. I'm just very (uselessly) curious about what that might be.

So, bolding on the iPad works the same as on my iPhone: First, double-tap the word you want bold. The iPad will highlight the word and a black bar of options will display on the screen -- one of which will be B/U. Tap that choice and now the options on the bar will be Bold/Italics/Underline. You can drag the lines on the ends of the highlighted word to encompass everything you want bolded. Then tap BOLD on the black bar.

 

[Jmoose]

That makes sense to me. I just wonder how/why the case went to them in the first place. I think they'd have to know a heck of a lot more than we do to get to that position in a useful way. A hunch wouldn't be enough, IMO. I'm just very (uselessly) curious about what that might be.

So, bolding on the iPad works the same as on my iPhone: First, double-tap the word you want bold. The iPad will highlight the word and a black bar of options will display on the screen -- one of which will be B/U. Tap that choice and now the options on the bar will be Bold/Italics/Underline. You can drag the lines on the ends of the highlighted word to encompass everything you want bolded. Then tap BOLD on the black bar.

(Lol)Thanks for your help w/the ipad!

I think they (cold case squad)may pull a bunch of cases, and I don't know if there has to be anything more to it than the fact that it's unsolved, or maybe a family member called the 122 precinct and ripped somebody a new one, and then maybe called Wendell Stradford. And actually, there is no reason why the detectives didn't come to the same place as all or most of us have. Since they have the file and whatever evidence there is, I would bet that they combed what they had carefully to see what kind of leverage they could find that would encourage the last one to see Sylvia, to speak to them. If that is what they did, apparently it didn't work, or there just wasn't anything to use. I wish we knew!

 

[alliemay]

A few years back I had inquired about a case from the 70's where I am from. I asked if they had one person in charge of all the cold cases in the area, I was told that once a year someone is assigned to go over all the cold cases, that it was not always the same person each time. I thought, "wow" at this rate none of the cold cases in my area will ever be solved. Is it lack of funds in most small towns, lack of interest, bigger fish to fry, or lack of PASSION. Going over all the cases once a year solves nothing in MO. Hopefully its not that way everywhere. I have not inquired recently as to their procedure because I fear nothing has changed.

 

[epiphany]

I don't know how to "bold" a statement on my ipad, or I would have done so with your last 2 sentences-the feeling I get is that the cold case squad probably has some idea now why she disappeared and who could be responsible -but there is no evidence, so...they cannot investigate where they would like to. They can't compel a person to speak to them unless they arrest him, and they can't arrest him without evidence that leads to an arrest warrant.

BBM

My understanding has always been, even if one is arrested, one is not compelled to answer LE's questions. LE can try to gain one's cooperation in answering questions (with or without an arrest), of course...but not "force" one to respond to questioning.

Even if not arrested, many consult an attorney if/when LE wants to question them.

 

[MMQC]

I am not sure there was ever an investigation of any substance, so I don't think there was any evidence collected.

My thoughts are that LE did what they had to and nothing more.
They seemed to believe (from all I have read about the lack of investigation) that Sylvia left because she wanted to.

They may have believed that because of interviews with her family and BF/F

If you recall, BF/F came to MMQC's house that night, spoke to her about SL getting out of the car. MMQC also spent that day with Sylvia. They were best friends. LE never bothered to speak to MMQC at all til 2010

AND only by phone. He identified himself as PS. His name appears on other LE documents. Pure coincidence? Who knows?

 

[Jmoose]

BBM

My understanding has always been, even if one is arrested, one is not compelled to answer LE's questions. LE can try to gain one's cooperation in answering questions (with or without an arrest), of course...but not "force" one to respond to questioning.

Even if not arrested, many consult an attorney if/when LE wants to question them.

Right, you don't have to speak to the police whether you are under arrest or not. And since that is true, why would you answer any questions without being under arrest? You might if you are innocent of having any part in, or knowlege of, the disappearance, although that is not proof of guilt.

 

[Jmoose]

MMQC made a good point earlier - she was contacted by Detective Savage from the Cold Case Squad in 2010, and there is a reference to a Detective Savage in 1978 articles about Ethel Atwell's disappearance.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the cold case detective *is* the original investigator.

Det. Savage didn't have anything to do with the original investigation in 1975-the cold case squad gave it to him, it looks like. He still has the file, apparently

 

[gajonka]

Hi, all -- been a crazy few weeks in my world. Won't go too far OT, but my daughter was in Honduras for a few weeks and had to have emergency surgery. All's well that ends well, but it has taken a while to get here.

A Q about the above quotes. I don't know much about internal police dept. organization, but since "Det. Lennon" was making a decision on whether to pursue this case in 1975, can't we know he was the one responsible? Also, I see a few numbers on the report I don't understand, like the circle around the handwritten "#49" and the "CCD No." Might either of those refer to the officer taking the report?

Hey - I hope she is O.K. She'll be in my thoughts... the up-beat, positive ones!

 

[gajonka]

That is where I'm at. It isn't like you could search BF/F's car now, for example. Oh, why didn't those detectives in 1975 find something useful for the cold case squad??

If the perpetrator wasn't one of the local serial killers, then it's better than even odds (in my opinion) that there were two people who know or knew what happened to Sylvia, or she would likely have been found by now. This thought includes either disappearing by own free will or not.

Here’s a hypothetical – it’s called “Second Request.”