NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #2

[GoingByMyGut]

I looked online to see if the yearbooks for any of those years is available to purchase, but it doesn't look good, and Staten Island is kind of a schlep for me...

I did that too. :silly:
Found a few on classmates for random years ... even searched one that was, IIRC, for a year she was enrolled, but an underclassman (I say IIRC bc it's easy for me to screw up dates when I'm down in the details). The way they have them posted makes it pretty cumbersome to search as well.

Who isn't SI a schlep for?! LOL. Perth Amboy residents, maybe

 

[alliemay]

Really good find, Skeet! On this Wagner page eulogizing him, it seems there may still at least be faculty at Wagner who have been there as long as he was, or who knew him well enough to have heard all his "stories about the old days," like ROGER WESBY. Note even the college pres. RICHARD GUARASCI says of Cross, "He had survived some exhilarating and some depressing encounters through Wagner’s complicated history" (BBM). Can't help but wonder what he means by that. Wish we knew someone close enough to Wagner to look up the college yearbooks from 1971-75.

Yes that's what I was thinking, someone to look up college yearbooks at the library. Also did you notice the few comments under the obit. It looks like Dr. Cross held a few parties at his house, I had the impression it was parties for his students. Could be wrong. But it made me wonder if she was in his class did she attend any parties at his house.

 

[alliemay]

Skeet-you certainly have been digging! As GBMT says, a good find, indeed! I wonder if there might be anything to gain by contacting some people at Wagner, to find out what anyone may remember about Sylvia?

Not sure what we can gain except to possibility have more information about her "other life". We only know about some of the people in her life. Mom Eva and Dad, forgot what his name was, MMQC, best friend, Deerhunter, relative, Charles, BF/F, x BF, no name Navy guy. I am guessing she would have enrolled in the music class for more than one year. MMQC said Sylvia had friends from college so somehow if we could find out who they were maybe we could jog their memories. Its either that or go back to the serial killer theory (Biegenwald or Hadden) or the BF....I sent a message to a singer that has a local band in that area who graduated in 1973 from Wagner asking her if she knew Sylvia, hope she did and replies to my message.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Yes that's what I was thinking, someone to look up college yearbooks at the library. Also did you notice the few comments under the obit. It looks like Dr. Cross held a few parties at his house, I had the impression it was parties for his students. Could be wrong. But it made me wonder if she was in his class did she attend any parties at his house.

I did see that and had the same thought. He seems like he was quite the character, with his love of halloween music, which would have been very appealing to college kids, I think. I thought maybe the former student who is now director of the Metro Chamber Orchestra -- the one who held the memorial concert (with the quote from Dracula as a title) for Cross -- might have been a friend, but he would have been a freshman when SL was a senior (class of 79). “Time is on My Side” has ominous reverberations, IMO. They could have crossed paths at a party.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Not sure what we can gain except to possibility have more information about her "other life". We only know about some of the people in her life. Mom Eva and Dad, forgot what his name was, MMQC, best friend, Deerhunter, relative, Charles, BF/F, x BF, no name Navy guy. I am guessing she would have enrolled in the music class for more than one year. MMQC said Sylvia had friends from college so somehow if we could find out who they were maybe we could jog their memories. Its either that or go back to the serial killer theory (Biegenwald or Hadden) or the BF....I sent a message to a singer that has a local band in that area who graduated in 1973 from Wagner asking her if she knew Sylvia, hope she did and relies to my message.

Hadden? Don't have him on my radar, only Biegenwald and Rand. Do you mean Hadden Clark? Or someone else?

 

[Jmoose]

I did that too. :silly:
Found a few on classmates for random years ... even searched one that was, IIRC, for a year she was enrolled, but an underclassman (I say IIRC bc it's easy for me to screw up dates when I'm down in the details). The way they have them posted makes it pretty cumbersome to search as well.

Who isn't SI a schlep for?! LOL. Perth Amboy residents, maybe

Lol-So true! Northern Westchester isn't as close as it looks, either! I was kind of hoping there'd be an easy way to access those yearbooks...

 

[alliemay]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Springville,_Staten_Island

"Until 1995, New Springville had late night bus service on Richmond Avenue, on the S59 route."

MMQC - what was the name of the bus company that ran at that time?

 

[alliemay]

Hadden? Don't have him on my radar, only Biegenwald and Rand. Do you mean Hadden Clark? Or someone else?

Yes Hadden Clark, sorry, I may have been thinking about Hadden Clark concerning another case (lady in the dunes) and thanks, I had forgotten about Rand which is another possibility.

 

[Jmoose]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Springville,_Staten_Island

"Until 1995, New Springville had late night bus service on Richmond Avenue, on the S59 route."

MMQC - what was the name of the bus company that ran at that time?

Skeet-you are on fire today! These are all things I'd never have thought of!

 

[alliemay]

To bad I have work to go to work now, it so gets in the way of sleuthing

 

[Jmoose]

to bad i have work to go to work now, it so gets in the way of sleuthing

lol!!!

 

[Angel629]

The glasses- something seemingly small, will always be the thing that got my attention about this case. I think if I was sitting in the front passenger seat, and threw my glasses against the dash (a foot away), they wouldn't even break! No, someone helped those glasses get broken, in a physical altercation or struggle. I also feel that if my fiance was angry with me, the night of an argument, he certainly would feel differently a day...a week...a year...many years later. He'd be concerned, interested, willing to help find out why I disappeared, never to be seen again. The BF/F's story is pure fiction.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

The glasses- something seemingly small, will always be the thing that got my attention about this case. I think if I was sitting in the front passenger seat, and threw my glasses against the dash (a foot away), they wouldn't even break! No, someone helped those glasses get broken, in a physical altercation or struggle. I also feel that if my fiance was angry with me, the night of an argument, he certainly would feel differently a day...a week...a year...many years later. He'd be concerned, interested, willing to help find out why I disappeared, never to be seen again. The BF/F's story is pure fiction.

Re the part BBM:
Hi, Angel -- I hear you. The Charley Project description (link) says "After her disappearance, her glasses were found in __'s car [name cut by me as per TOS]; they were broken. He stated they broke after she threw them at the dashboard as she was exiting his vehicle." [BBM]

This description was updated a few months ago to include this more specific information, but IIRC ASWDeerHunter (one of our VIs) said somewhere on the thread (thread 1?) that he was unaware of the update and did not know who did it; he thanked us for pointing it out. Now that we know the CC squad was working the case, perhaps they updated it? Unsure. IOW, we can't be sure of the source or credibility of the info.

All that said, the new description provides a slightly different "shot" than the one you describe, but I'm not sure it's any more likely! No SUVs back then, right? So if you were standing, you would probably be leaning into the car a little, and the door would probably be in your way. It would be a downward shot, yet would have to be thrown somewhat level, like when you skip a stone, or you would miss the dash and hit the seat or floor. Awkward throw at best! And if you were already out of the car, why would you toss the glasses then -- unless they had something to do with him (e.g., someone suggested earlier that he might have bought them for her; if so, I could see her doing this after he said something like "you can't make it without me! you can't even afford your own glasses!").

It is hard to see how she could get enough force on that shot to break the glasses. Unless they made contact with something that caused them to break -- the corner of the rearview mirror? a self-installed radio/8-track player? a bakelite steering wheel? (Very contrary to my own experiences. My glasses break without me trying!)

Agreed: Def one of the mysteries of the case, one that begs for a supporting story.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Re the part BBM:
Hi, Angel -- I hear you. The Charley Project description (link) says "After her disappearance, her glasses were found in __'s car [name cut by me as per TOS]; they were broken. He stated they broke after she threw them at the dashboard as she was exiting his vehicle." [BBM]

This description was updated a few months ago to include this more specific information, but IIRC ASWDeerHunter (one of our VIs) said somewhere on the thread (thread 1?) that he was unaware of the update and did not know who did it; he thanked us for pointing it out. Now that we know the CC squad was working the case, perhaps they updated it? Unsure. IOW, we can't be sure of the source or credibility of the info.

All that said, the new description provides a slightly different "shot" than the one you describe, but I'm not sure it's any more likely! No SUVs back then, right? So if you were standing, you would probably be leaning into the car a little, and the door would probably be in your way. It would be a downward shot, yet would have to be thrown somewhat level, like when you skip a stone, or you would miss the dash and hit the seat or floor. Awkward throw at best! And if you were already out of the car, why would you toss the glasses then -- unless they had something to do with him (e.g., someone suggested earlier that he might have bought them for her; if so, I could see her doing this after he said something like "you can't make it without me! you can't even afford your own glasses!").

It is hard to see how she could get enough force on that shot to break the glasses. Unless they made contact with something that caused them to break -- the corner of the rearview mirror? a self-installed radio/8-track player? a bakelite steering wheel? (Very contrary to my own experiences. My glasses break without me trying!)

Agreed: Def one of the mysteries of the case, one that begs for a supporting story.

BBM: -Just putting this out there and jumping off your post, GBMG, but does the Charley Project have access to cold case squad or the police directly? Why no link? I thought they were bringing in information from sources that everyone had access to. Is that not correct?

The only place I have seen that the glasses were broken is in speculation on this thread.

...stuck on those glasses, yes I am, but also stuck on verifiable information, not speculation presented as fact as the Charlie Project has portrayed.

 

[rosemadderlake]

The glasses- something seemingly small, will always be the thing that got my attention about this case. I think if I was sitting in the front passenger seat, and threw my glasses against the dash (a foot away), they wouldn't even break! No, someone helped those glasses get broken, in a physical altercation or struggle. I also feel that if my fiance was angry with me, the night of an argument, he certainly would feel differently a day...a week...a year...many years later. He'd be concerned, interested, willing to help find out why I disappeared, never to be seen again. The BF/F's story is pure fiction.

BBM: Yes, Angel629, I agree with your point: where was the love and concern for her life after the argument? Even if they broke up, one would think there would be compassion years later for those whose hearts were broken by her disappearance.

 

[epiphany]

snipped

The Charley Project is not an organization. It is solely an online database for cold case missing persons from the United States. There are no members in The Charley Project. The site is maintained by the administrator, who works alone.

Visitors can, however, provide additional details regarding profiled cases if they wish.

snipped

Are you affiliated with law enforcement or private investigators?

No. I only provide an online database. I do not help find missing people nor do I assist law enforcement, unless the agency contacts me and asks for my help in a matter...

http://www.charleyproject.org/faq.html

http://www.charleyproject.org/administrator.html

 

[GoingByMyGut]

BBM: -Just putting this out there and jumping off your post, GBMG, but does the Charley Project have access to cold case squad or the police directly? Why no link? I thought they were bringing in information from sources that everyone had access to. Is that not correct?

The only place I have seen that the glasses were broken is in speculation on this thread.

...stuck on those glasses, yes I am, but also stuck on verifiable information, not speculation presented as fact as the Charlie Project has portrayed.

snipped

The Charley Project is not an organization. It is solely an online database for cold case missing persons from the United States. There are no members in The Charley Project. The site is maintained by the administrator, who works alone.

Visitors can, however, provide additional details regarding profiled cases if they wish.

snipped

Are you affiliated with law enforcement or private investigators?

No. I only provide an online database. I do not help find missing people nor do I assist law enforcement, unless the agency contacts me and asks for my help in a matter...

http://www.charleyproject.org/faq.html

http://www.charleyproject.org/administrator.html

BBM1: I wondered about this too, Rose, but I know absolutely nothing about it. Where could the information come from? And who, if not ASWDH, would tender the BF/F's name? That is bold and purposeful. Where could the info have originated from?

BBM2: Yes, this is what I meant by "IOW, we can't be sure of the source or credibility of the info." All is speculation. Not only are we unsure of whether the glasses were broken, we don't actually know whether the glasses were recovered. The detail could have been relayed by the BF/F verbally. My point in my post was that, even in the CP scenario, it's hard to see how they could have been broken in the way described.

BBM3-4: Epiphany, was this a CP site FAQ? From the first statement, BBM, it appears anyone can contribute, but from the second, it seems you are also saying LE might contribute. Maybe we can ask for a source for the SL info?

 

[epiphany]

BBM1: I wondered about this too, Rose, but I know absolutely nothing about it. Where could the information come from? And who, if not ASWDH, would tender the BF/F's name? That is bold and purposeful. Where could the info have originated from?

BBM2: Yes, this is what I meant by "IOW, we can't be sure of the source or credibility of the info." All is speculation. Not only are we unsure of whether the glasses were broken, we don't actually know whether the glasses were recovered. The detail could have been relayed by the BF/F verbally. My point in my post was that, even in the CP scenario, it's hard to seen how they could have been broken in the way described.

BBM3-4: Epiphany, was this a CP site FAQ? From the first statement, BBM, it appears anyone can contribute, but from the second, it seems you are also saying LE might contribute. Maybe we can ask for a source for the SL info?

Yes, snips are from The CP's general Q&A page linked in post.

MOO, LE did not contribute this info to CP Admin, nor ask for it to be added to SL's CP page...Cold Case, LE would have added such info to NamUs first.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Yes, snips are from The CP's general Q&A page linked in post.

MOO, LE did not contribute this info to CP Admin, nor ask for it to be added to SL's CP page...Cold Case, LE would have added such info to NamUs first.

Thanks, Epiph -- BBM: Makes sense. For what it's worth, I just emailed the CP administrator asking for the source of the new information. We'll see what happens.

 

[rosemadderlake]

BBM1: I wondered about this too, Rose, but I know absolutely nothing about it. Where could the information come from? And who, if not ASWDH, would tender the BF/F's name? That is bold and purposeful. Where could the info have originated from?

BBM2: Yes, this is what I meant by "IOW, we can't be sure of the source or credibility of the info." All is speculation. Not only are we unsure of whether the glasses were broken, we don't actually know whether the glasses were recovered. The detail could have been relayed by the BF/F verbally. My point in my post was that, even in the CP scenario, it's hard to see how they could have been broken in the way described.

BBM3-4: Epiphany, was this a CP site FAQ? From the first statement, BBM, it appears anyone can contribute, but from the second, it seems you are also saying LE might contribute. Maybe we can ask for a source for the SL info?

bbm: Ok, now I am sheepish... what is "IOW"?

The BF/F's name could have been picked up from the wedding announcement? But it is interesting that the glasses are updated as "found broken in his car" after it was speculated / suggested on this thread. Who found the broken glasses?????? I will add the CP update was on April 15, the same date the reward roll out was to be posted, somewhere..........

Maybe this is why there was no information from the BF/F after her disappearance. Was that the rumor in 1975? One of many?