NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #2

[rosemadderlake]

MMQC: When you called SL's Mother's house to tell her to have Sylvia call you as soon as she arrived home, how did Eva sound to on the phone?

Was she concerned about you asking her to tell Sylvia to call you no matter the hour?

---Maybe this is the seed as to why EL thought MMQC was harboring her. If MMQC calls around 11pm and BF/F was already there at 10:30pm, and SL doesn't come home, what is EL thinking?

 

[Dushi]

---Maybe this is the seed as to why EL thought MMQC was harboring her. If MMQC calls around 11pm and BF/F was already there at 10:30pm, and SL doesn't come home, what is EL thinking?

She couldn't have been thinking that S was at MMQCs as she wouldn't have gone looking for her or called the police

 

[Jmoose]

---Maybe this is the seed as to why EL thought MMQC was harboring her. If MMQC calls around 11pm and BF/F was already there at 10:30pm, and SL doesn't come home, what is EL thinking?

See, this is where I am stuck-BF/F shows up around 10:30 and says whatever he says, then MMQC calls around 11:00 and says "i have to speak to her, no matter how late it is". So why would this morph into MMQC harboring her? Am I missing something here? I woud assume that if MMQC called me to say "need to talk to her, no matter how late", I wouldn't think that Sylvia would be with her...ad yet Eva did. What could he have said to Eva?

 

[GoingByMyGut]

There is a ? by the time of the call
Did MMQC not recall when Mrs L called her house?

IIRC, MMQC did say on followup she could not recall the exact time, only that it was very early in the morning.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

See, this is where I am stuck-BF/F shows up around 10:30 and says whatever he says, then MMQC calls around 11:00 and says "i have to speak to her, no matter how late it is". So why would this morph into MMQC harboring her? Am I missing something here? I woud assume that if MMQC called me to say "need to talk to her, no matter how late", I wouldn't think that Sylvia would be with her...ad yet Eva did. What could he have said to Eva?

I'm not sure "harboring" is the right word, as I don't think EL thought she was hiding her. I think she just thought MMQC knew something. Maybe the phone call suggested to EL that MMQC knew where SL was and why she might not be home until late?

 

[rosemadderlake]

See, this is where I am stuck-BF/F shows up around 10:30 and says whatever he says, then MMQC calls around 11:00 and says "i have to speak to her, no matter how late it is". So why would this morph into MMQC harboring her? Am I missing something here? I woud assume that if MMQC called me to say "need to talk to her, no matter how late", I wouldn't think that Sylvia would be with her...ad yet Eva did. What could he have said to Eva?

Right, "no matter how late" and then no SL. El may not have thought anything of it at the time- but in reflecting back after her daughter did not return, El did think MMQC knew where she was...

MMQC was acting in a non alarmist way, first. I think I would have done the same. But maybe it was interpreted differently, later?

 

[Jmoose]

I'm not sure "harboring" is the right word, as I don't think EL thought she was hiding her. I think she just thought MMQC knew something. Maybe the phone call suggested to EL that MMQC knew where SL was and why she might not be home until late?

I used the word "harboring" only for that night, and in hindsight, probably wouldn't have used it again-but I used it because Eva may have thought that MMQC knew where Sylvia was, even as MMQC was calling Sylvia's home looking for her-I don't know why Eva would or could think that, and as we know, MMQC had no idea where Sylvia could be.

 

[rosemadderlake]

I am not sure EL knew what to think of anyone after her daughter disappeared. A natural reaction, imo. But then, one sorts it out and I am sure she knew somewhere deep down that MMQC was not hiding her daughter from her - all I am thinking is the seeds of perception may have been there from the timing of events the night SL disappeared.

-BFF shows up first, MMQC calls next, No SL - EL probably thinks SL went to MMQC's house by next morning. Afterwards, everything is then questioned in the context of no SL.

 

[Jmoose]

I'm not sure "harboring" is the right word, as I don't think EL thought she was hiding her. I think she just thought MMQC knew something. Maybe the phone call suggested to EL that MMQC knew where SL was and why she might not be home until late?

BBM-absolutely no doubt that Eva thought MMQC knew something relating to Sylvia's whereabouts-why did she think that? We know that it was Sylvia's habit to occasionally escape her universe by going to spend some time with MMQC at her house. I am just wondering why Eva thought this after MMQC indicated that she had no idea where Sylvia was. Eva was thinking something that she never articulated, at least to MMQC. What could that have been, and why would she think MMQC would spend time looking for Sylvia when she knew where she was? This reaction to Sylvia's disappearance must have contributed in part to LE's casual approach to trying to find her back in 1975. I wonder (fruitlessly, I know) if Eva expressed this feeling to the police?

 

[Jmoose]

I am not sure EL knew what to think of anyone after her daughter disappeared. A natural reaction, imo. But then, one sorts it out and I am sure she knew somewhere deep down that MMQC was not hiding her daughter from her - all I am thinking is the seeds of perception may have been there from the timing of events the night SL disappeared.

-BFF shows up first, MMQC calls next, No SL - EL probably thinks SL went to MMQC's house by next morning. Afterwards, everything is then questioned in the context of no SL.

This could be all there was to it, and maybe the only way to think of it so one doesn't go insane.

 

[epiphany]

See, this is where I am stuck-BF/F shows up around 10:30 and says whatever he says, then MMQC calls around 11:00 and says "i have to speak to her, no matter how late it is". So why would this morph into MMQC harboring her? Am I missing something here? I woud assume that if MMQC called me to say "need to talk to her, no matter how late", I wouldn't think that Sylvia would be with her...ad yet Eva did. What could he have said to Eva?

Trying to step into Mother's shoes that late evening & in early morning hours, as well as first few days after disappearance. We don't know whether or not BF/F had told Eva that he had already been to MMQC's home that night:

The BF/F has been to MMQC's home already & said they had an argument, etc. I had not been called immediately after BF/F left MMQC's home describing an argument & my daughter running from vehicle.

MMQC and Father believe situation calls for them to go out looking for my daughter. I have not been called immediately at this second point to notify me that others had already been looking for my daughter.

MMQC calls my home & says she must speak to my daughter as soon as she returns-my daughter should call her, no matter the hour.

We don't know anything about MMQC's impression of how Eva responded to this ^^ phone call from her.

I wait for another call, but phone never rings. In the meantime, BF/F has come to my home; I've gone out looking for my daughter, can't find her and I've already called the police. I wind up calling myself and only then am I told directly from her that BF/F had stopped by earlier and Father and she had looked for her, but could not find her.

I'm the Mother in this situation: I'm not going to provide information to either BF/F or MMQC about what one said to me about the evening to the other. It will work both ways.

But I think I must be a little odd like that.

 

[MMQC]

my understanding from mmqc's posts is that eva had never told her about the following, nor did mmqc know about the following, until she learned about it after joining ws:

- that sl's bf/f had been to sl's home that evening at 10:30 pm

- that eva, sl's mother, had gone out to look for sl the very evening her daughter went missing

- that eva had called the police that very evening after looking for her daughter

- that sl threw her eyeglasses or even that there was an eyeglass story

exactly!

 

[MMQC]

bbm: MMQC -the BF/F's band has been mentioned a couple of times on this thread - I am gathering this is not a chamber quartet but a rock and roll band? --like in blues band? Or Led Zep kind of R&R band? -Dance band?

Did his band play at bars, clubs, venues on SI, NYC?

Weddings and parties mostly. But he was also a member of the SI orchestra.

 

[MMQC]

Trying to step into Mother's shoes that late evening & in early morning hours, as well as first few days after disappearance. We don't know whether or not BF/F had told Eva that he had already been to MMQC's home that night:

The BF/F has been to MMQC's home already & said they had an argument, etc. I had not been called immediately after BF/F left MMQC's home describing an argument & my daughter running from vehicle.

MMQC and Father believe situation calls for them to go out looking for my daughter. I have not been called immediately at this second point to notify me that others had already been looking for my daughter.

MMQC calls my home & says she must speak to my daughter as soon as she returns-my daughter should call her, no matter the hour.


We don't know anything about MMQC's impression of how Eva responded to this ^^ phone call from her.

I wait for another call, but phone never rings. In the meantime, BF/F has come to my home; I've gone out looking for my daughter, can't find her and I've already called the police. I wind up calling myself and only then am I told directly from her that BF/F had stopped by earlier and Father and she had looked for her, but could not find her.

I'm the Mother in this situation: I'm not going to provide information to either BF/F or MMQC about what one said to me about the evening to the other. It will work both ways.

But I think I must be a little odd like that.

I called asking to speak to SL.
EL told me that she was out with BF/F.
I said I NEEDED TO TALK TO HER NO MATTER WHAT TIME SHE CAME HOME.
EL said OK as by this point I was sort of anxious as I talked to her to get my point across.

 

[epiphany]

I called asking to speak to SL.
EL told me that she was out with BF/F.
I said I NEEDED TO TALK TO HER NO MATTER WHAT TIME SHE CAME HOME.
EL said OK as by this point I was sort of anxious as I talked to her to get my point across.

Thank you, MMQC. At what point do you think your phone call occurred now that you know EL's own actions that evening (BF/F had stopped at her home; She went in car looking herself for SL; She called police...)?

 

[Jmoose]

Trying to step into Mother's shoes that late evening & in early morning hours, as well as first few days after disappearance. We don't know whether or not BF/F had told Eva that he had already been to MMQC's home that night:

The BF/F has been to MMQC's home already & said they had an argument, etc. I had not been called immediately after BF/F left MMQC's home describing an argument & my daughter running from vehicle.

MMQC and Father believe situation calls for them to go out looking for my daughter. I have not been called immediately at this second point to notify me that others had already been looking for my daughter.

MMQC calls my home & says she must speak to my daughter as soon as she returns-my daughter should call her, no matter the hour.

We don't know anything about MMQC's impression of how Eva responded to this ^^ phone call from her.

I wait for another call, but phone never rings. In the meantime, BF/F has come to my home; I've gone out looking for my daughter, can't find her and I've already called the police. I wind up calling myself and only then am I told directly from her that BF/F had stopped by earlier and Father and she had looked for her, but could not find her.

I'm the Mother in this situation: I'm not going to provide information to either BF/F or MMQC about what one said to me about the evening to the other. It will work both ways.

But I think I must be a little odd like that.

Not odd, I understand what you are saying-but since, as Sylvia's mother, I would assume they both loved Sylvia, it wouldn't have occurred to me to withhold the information from each of them (maybe that makes me the odd one here!). I shouldn't assume everyone would react as I would.

 

[MMQC]

Thank you, MMQC. At what point do you think your phone call occurred now that you know EL's own actions that evening (BF/F had stopped at her home; She went in car looking herself for SL; She called police...)?

given the timing and the reaction time by my dad and I, close to 11 or there abouts

 

[alliemay]

See, this is where I am stuck-BF/F shows up around 10:30 and says whatever he says, then MMQC calls around 11:00 and says "i have to speak to her, no matter how late it is". So why would this morph into MMQC harboring her? Am I missing something here? I woud assume that if MMQC called me to say "need to talk to her, no matter how late", I wouldn't think that Sylvia would be with her...ad yet Eva did. What could he have said to Eva?

I also wonder how many times Sylvia "ran" to MMQC's house when things were not going well with her parents? In the course of the friendship, even before she graduated from high school, were there other times that Sylvia ran there, then the parents found out later that she had been there?

 

[Jmoose]

I also wonder how many times Sylvia "ran" to MMQC's house when things were not going well with her parents? In the course of the friendship, even before she graduated from high school, were there other times that Sylvia ran there, then the parents found out later that she had been there?

Are you asking if she went to MMQC's, and deliberately let her family wonder where she was?

 

[alliemay]

Yes I guess that's what it sounds like, I'm trying to figure out why El would be mistrusting, was she normally that type of person? Had El found out something before Sylvia went missing, something that she knew that MMQC had kept secret. Either that or like I said, maybe she mistrusted everyone? Not sure where I'm going with this thought and I don't even have a example in my own life that might cause my best friends mother to think I wasn't telling the whole story.