NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #3

[rosemadderlake]

Maybe Sylvia had some money, if she didn’t spend it shopping at the mall that afternoon, or cash saved up. SI article says she was engaged and “excited about her future”, yet the events we know about proceeding that night, and on that night suggest something else was going on. – I wish we knew more.

Sylvia was 22 in 1975 – seems she worked the summers of ’73 & ’74. What was her summer of ’75 like? Was she planning a wedding? -Some of the engagement gifts may have included cash. If she was looking forward to her future, what were her desires and expectations; what was expected of her? Did she have a circle of friends with her fiancé? Would she have called a mutual friend of theirs after a fight, that Sat. night?

If she was looking forward to her future, why was she listed as depressed on the PR? -In the absence of evidence, sometimes I am not so sure she is on Staten Island. There is a missing piece though, something about Sylvia, or her fiancé, or someone else, random or known. I am not so sure the publicity is going to yield anything other than a continued code of silence. And, I wonder why that is the case with her.

-I was looking through the secret pictures of the young, mostly women recovered from Rodney Alcala’s locker in 1979 that LE published hoping to identify the missing. He was incarcerated ’74-’77 but came to NY after his ’77 release. Many of these women look like fresh faced, wholesome college kids, much like Sylvia. What makes a person vulnerable to a predator like this? A seducer with a camera, in some kind of esoteric sheep’s clothing that appealed to what? --Their intelligence, being chosen, singled out, admired, rescued, or just the notion of fame? –Or, no street smarts. What are the chances that Sylvia is the victim of a random killer like this, or a less potent, but no less evil variety?

Alcala Timeline
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-98546.html

https://reallifemonsters.shutterfly.com/rodneyalcala/6

 

[Jmoose]

Maybe Sylvia had some money, if she didn’t spend it shopping at the mall that afternoon, or cash saved up. SI article says she was engaged and “excited about her future”, yet the events we know about proceeding that night, and on that night suggest something else was going on. – I wish we knew more.

Sylvia was 22 in 1975 – seems she worked the summers of ’73 & ’74. What was her summer of ’75 like? Was she planning a wedding? -Some of the engagement gifts may have included cash. If she was looking forward to her future, what were her desires and expectations; what was expected of her? Did she have a circle of friends with her fiancé? Would she have called a mutual friend of theirs after a fight, that Sat. night?

If she was looking forward to her future, why was she listed as depressed on the PR? -In the absence of evidence, sometimes I am not so sure she is on Staten Island. There is a missing piece though, something about Sylvia, or her fiancé, or someone else, random or known. I am not so sure the publicity is going to yield anything other than a continued code of silence. And, I wonder why that is the case with her.

-I was looking through the secret pictures of the young, mostly women recovered from Rodney Alcala’s locker in 1979 that LE published hoping to identify the missing. He was incarcerated ’74-’77 but came to NY after his ’77 release. Many of these women look like fresh faced, wholesome college kids, much like Sylvia. What makes a person vulnerable to a predator like this? A seducer with a camera, in some kind of esoteric sheep’s clothing that appealed to what? --Their intelligence, being chosen, singled out, admired, rescued, or just the notion of fame? –Or, no street smarts. What are the chances that Sylvia is the victim of a random killer like this, or a less potent, but no less evil variety?

Alcala Timeline
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-98546.html

https://reallifemonsters.shutterfly.com/rodneyalcala/6

There are so many bad people out there-more, it seems, than any of us imagined. Sometimes I think that constantly reading about these cases reinforces that notion. There are probably half a dozen options for what happened to Sylvia; I am leaning one way, and you in another, but the truth is, with what little we know, it's impossible to tell. I am also wondering why the silence is even more obvious now, after the article in the Staten Island Advance. It is so difficult for me to imagine that the article provoked no response (that we know of). My only thought is to keep pushing for more attention, where possible, to see if anything surfaces-not directed at any particular person, because that doesn't seem viable at the moment.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Not sure which way I lean Jmoose, it is more like sway, or bounce around those half a dozen scenarios you mention. I don’t feel like I know enough, yet nothing would surprise me.

The circumstances look one way and there is no evidence, or clue. There was a whole group of people on her radar right before she went missing, and those voices are silent, we have no clue. I guess I am thinking about the contrasts in her life at that time, yet all those could be perfectly normal ups and downs of any transitioning engaged to be married, college grad. -I can see it both ways.

Her close proximity to NYC and the times we lived in increases her chances with a random encounter (imo). -But how many serial killers are out there at any given time? I do think there may have been more people out and about on a Saturday night, in the beginning of Sept. with the reported crowds at the Movie Theater with “Jaws”, and also colleges beginning fall semester.

-Maybe no one knows what happened to her. If that is the case, I wish those voices were known because even “I don’t know” is a direction….

 

[alliemay]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=520050618083495&set=pcb.247104308771939&type=1&theater

I wonder if Sylvia ever went to this diner on Victory Blvd.

 

[alliemay]

MMQC - I know we talked some about the shopping trip but I don't remember if you mentioned where the both of you actually shopped that day. Was it the stores in the mall or did you go shopping in the city? I know it may take awhile before you answer this question, and another one I asked regarding the year you both sold ice cream. Hope you jump on the thread soon, we don't have much to keep it going, and for some reason I do not feel like I want to walk from this one yet.

 

[Jmoose]

I didn't get the sense that they went into the city, Skeet-I think I recall reading that it was mall shopping

 

[rosemadderlake]

MMQC - I know we talked some about the shopping trip but I don't remember if you mentioned where the both of you actually shopped that day. Was it the stores in the mall or did you go shopping in the city? I know it may take awhile before you answer this question, and another one I asked regarding the year you both sold ice cream. Hope you jump on the thread soon, we don't have much to keep it going, and for some reason I do not feel like I want to walk from this one yet.

BBM: -I recall years: '73 ice cream (Sophomore/Junior summer), '74 painting (Junior/Senior summer). -But it would be great to have that confirmed.

 

[alliemay]

http://notcontent.blogspot.com/

"In 1976, the body of 13-year-old Beth Ann Sweeney was found in the woods behind the Prince's Bay train station. The Great Kills girl had been beaten, strangled and stabbed. Police found no motive for the killing and no arrests have ever been made. Andre Rand has not been publically implicated."

I really can't find anything else on this girl, hard to believe there is not more info.

 

[Jmoose]

It amazes me to see all of these disappearances and murders that have happened in Staten Island, with almost no mention! Where is that train station? Anywhere near Willowbrook?

 

[FrankD]

It amazes me to see all of these disappearances and murders that have happened in Staten Island, with almost no mention! Where is that train station? Anywhere near Willowbrook?

The Trains on SI run from St George out to Tottenville which would cover the East and South parts of SI! Willowbrook would be part of the North shore which would be covered by the Victory Blvd buses!

 

[Jmoose]

The Trains on SI run from St George out to Tottenville which would cover the East and South parts of SI! Willowbrook would be part of the North shore which would be covered by the Victory Blvd buses!

Thanks Frank-it wouldn't necessarily rule Andre Rand out in that little girl's case; just wondering how many people he is suspected of killing that we still haven't heard of.

 

[alliemay]

Thanks Frank-it wouldn't necessarily rule Andre Rand out in that little girl's case; just wondering how many people he is suspected of killing that we still haven't heard of.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY NY - Missing children on Staten Island, 1980s

 

[Jmoose]

With yesterday's news about the identification, after 22 years, of Baby Hope, there may be Hope in Sylvia's disappearance. In case anyone's unfamiliar, she was a little girl who was strangled and stuffed into a cooler, and dumped down an embankment next to a highway in the Bronx. For 22 years, nobody knew who she was, but because the mother was overheard years ago by somebody who recently became aware of little "Hope's" discovery, LE has taken a DNA sample from the mother, with positive results. The mother claims her abusive husband took off with her two daughters, the older one was returned, but she said she never reported her daughters missing because she was afraid of him.

How often does this happen, I wonder? There are so many unidentified remains that must correspond to people who have never been reported missing. That isn't the case with Sylvia because we know she was reported missing. Here, the lack of publicity must factor into the mystery. But for the publicity, Baby Hope would never have been identified.

 

[rosemadderlake]

With yesterday's news about the identification, after 22 years, of Baby Hope, there may be Hope in Sylvia's disappearance. In case anyone's unfamiliar, she was a little girl who was strangled and stuffed into a cooler, and dumped down an embankment next to a highway in the Bronx. For 22 years, nobody knew who she was, but because the mother was overheard years ago by somebody who recently became aware of little "Hope's" discovery, LE has taken a DNA sample from the mother, with positive results. The mother claims her abusive husband took off with her two daughters, the older one was returned, but she said she never reported her daughters missing because she was afraid of him.

How often does this happen, I wonder? There are so many unidentified remains that must correspond to people who have never been reported missing. That isn't the case with Sylvia because we know she was reported missing. Here, the lack of publicity must factor into the mystery. But for the publicity, Baby Hope would never have been identified.

-Really interesting point and parallel, Jmoose. It would seem that the statute of limitations listed below in this article about Baby Hope would apply to Sylvia if her body is ever found.

Dead 22 Years, ‘Baby Hope’ Has a Name Again
NY Times Published: October 8, 2013

“…A good deal of detective work remained to be done before any charges could be brought. That official said the investigation was focusing on determining the circumstances surrounding the little girl’s death as well as who was responsible.

The official also noted that the statute of limitations had lapsed on every possible crime a suspect could face except murder, including manslaughter and possible sex crimes, so no arrest could be made until investigators had enough evidence to charge someone with second-degree murder.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/09/n...s-proceed-with-caution.html?pagewanted=2&_r=0

 

[Jmoose]

-Really interesting point and parallel, Jmoose. It would seem that the statute of limitations listed below in this article about Baby Hope would apply to Sylvia if her body is ever found.

Dead 22 Years, ‘Baby Hope’ Has a Name Again
NY Times Published: October 8, 2013

“…A good deal of detective work remained to be done before any charges could be brought. That official said the investigation was focusing on determining the circumstances surrounding the little girl’s death as well as who was responsible.

The official also noted that the statute of limitations had lapsed on every possible crime a suspect could face except murder, including manslaughter and possible sex crimes, so no arrest could be made until investigators had enough evidence to charge someone with second-degree murder.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/09/n...s-proceed-with-caution.html?pagewanted=2&_r=0

Yes-when I spoke to Det. Savage, I asked him if there was any statute of limitations on various different things which would result in the death of a person, like an assault which may not have been intended to result in death, but did. He assured me that there was no statute of limitations in such a case. Now, if only she could be found-then there would be something to talk about.

I am glad that this little girl will finally have a real name again, but as I watched the newscast, I was thinking that Baby Hope was a better name than the one given by the two people who should have protected and cared for her.

 

[rosemadderlake]

From the definition of 2nd degree murder, I think a key point is “death of the victim was a distinct possibility” even if it was not planned or intentional. –Seems that would include flying into rage and killing someone unintentionally because in that moment ‘death is distinct possibility’.


“Second degree murder n. a non-premeditated killing, resulting from an assault in which death of the victim was a distinct possibility. Second degree murder is different from First Degree Murder which is a premeditated, intentional killing, or results from a vicious crime such as arson, rape, or armed robbery. Exact distinctions on degree vary by state.”

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/second+degree+murder

 

[Jmoose]

From the definition of 2nd degree murder, I think a key point is “death of the victim was a distinct possibility” even if it was not planned or intentional. –Seems that would include flying into rage and killing someone unintentionally because in that moment ‘death is distinct possibility’.


“Second degree murder n. a non-premeditated killing, resulting from an assault in which death of the victim was a distinct possibility. Second degree murder is different from First Degree Murder which is a premeditated, intentional killing, or results from a vicious crime such as arson, rape, or armed robbery. Exact distinctions on degree vary by state.”

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/second+degree+murder

Yes-I think this is actually what I was trying (and failed-lol!) to say

 

[Jmoose]

Just bumpin' her up

 

[alliemay]

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...nd-Missing-Maryland-New-Jersey-199390461.html

"The remains -- a skull found in August 2010 by a fishing boat in Ocean City, Md., and a tibia found in April 2011 by another fishing boat -- have been identified as Sylvia Cuttitta, 54.

The ID was made by the New Jersey State Police forensics division through DNA. The medical examiner is still working to positively identify the remains."

The part I don't understand, how can the state police announce that the remains belong to this woman when the medical examiner is still working to positively identify the remains? Is it possible the remains belong to someone else?

 

[Jmoose]

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...nd-Missing-Maryland-New-Jersey-199390461.html

"The remains -- a skull found in August 2010 by a fishing boat in Ocean City, Md., and a tibia found in April 2011 by another fishing boat -- have been identified as Sylvia Cuttitta, 54.

The ID was made by the New Jersey State Police forensics division through DNA. The medical examiner is still working to positively identify the remains."

The part I don't understand, how can the state police announce that the remains belong to this woman when the medical examiner is still working to positively identify the remains? Is it possible the remains belong to someone else?

The article is poorly written-they know exactly who it belongs to, in my opinion