NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #3

[Jmoose]

[/B];9679016]Hi Nola -

You definitely highlighted the hot button points of the circumstances between SL & BF/F.

bbm: If someone actually saw the BF/F with the ring and knew the circumstances of SL's disappearance, (imo and I agree) that would be information one could tip to the police. Why weren't they made aware of this piece? So, you have a really good point here in that if someone had concrete information like the ring's whereabouts, why oh why didn't the police know about it?

The ring being in the BF'F's possession is a powerful piece of hearsay told to SL's best friend by a friend of a friend in the late 70's early 80's (if I have that right). And we are told that the cold case squad was made aware of it.

We are hoping for clarification on the glasses and their condition. It looks like the description of the circumstances in Namus was entered in 2010 by the Cold Case Squad (that is the contact). --Not sure if this description was provided in the 1975 MP report which states "left in Car", or updated later.

The Charlie Project, little more than an unverified blog, (super market rag, imo), database, updated the "glasses found broken in BF/F's car" and even quoted the BF/F on April 15, 2013, with no source link to back it up. After GBMG's detective work (see post #266, thread #3) come to find out that you or I could just send an email to the Charlie Project if we wanted to, attach the PR PDF provided here, add the ring story from WS, attach the BF/F's name to it with no additional source link to back it up, and watch it get published!!!!

I am no fan of the BF/F in this story, but the entities that publish potentially libelous unchecked information while proclaiming to serve the greater good should be discredited until corrected, vigorously!

The Charlie Project needs to quote the circumstances from NamUs, the only source link listed.

Rose-Det. Savage was the one who put Sylvia's disappearance on Namus, if I recall from our conversation. And, like you, I think unverified info is counter productive here; The only thing we can be certain of at the moment is that BF/F is a real creep.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Rose-Det. Savage was the one who put Sylvia's disappearance on Namus, if I recall from our conversation. And, like you, I think unverified info is counter productive here; The only thing we can be certain of at the moment is that BF/F is a real creep.

BBM: JMoose, maybe to your (growing) list of Qs for Det. Savage you can add why the glasses are listed in SL's NamUs listing as part of the "Clothing and Accessories" description, which presumably refers to what she was last seen wearing and/or having in her possession?

 

[rosemadderlake]

Rose-Det. Savage was the one who put Sylvia's disappearance on Namus, if I recall from our conversation. And, like you, I think unverified info is counter productive here; The only thing we can be certain of at the moment is that BF/F is a real creep.

- Here's what is sad - maybe Det. Savage is the first real attention this case received in what, 35 years?... but I am really hopeful that a connection was made.

- Rumor, innuendo, and "unverified info" serves a dual agenda and is about pushing that envelope of blame, spin, gossip, whatever. In this case it seeks to target something more specific which makes me wonder more about who is behind the unverified info rather than the content... Who would do that and why? How would they feel if they were exposed? What if their interpretation is not true?

- Jmoose!! Yes, the BF/F has shown there is no love lost after Sylvia's disappearance... I do wonder why??????

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Have you guys seen this? Not the same but amazing ... 52 years.

Lucy Johnson, British Columbia Woman, Found Alive And Well After Missing For 52 Years

 

[GoingByMyGut]

OMG, is it raining closed cold cases?! We should be this lucky:

Steven Goff, New Jersey Man, Confesses To Frederick Hart's 1990 Murder, Gets Sentenced To 30 Years

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Almost another two weeks have passed since I last emailed the Charley Project administrator and I see that the questionable information remains. The person who is responsible for it being added 4/15 also emailed her, cc'g me. I am hoping we simply caught her on vacation, but JIC I just resent both emails to her as a reminder.

 

[Jmoose]

Almost another two weeks have passed since I last emailed the Charley Project administrator and I see that the questionable information remains. The person who is responsible for it being added 4/15 also emailed her, cc'g me. I am hoping we simply caught her on vacation, but JIC I just resent both emails to her as a reminder.

I also went to check on the Charley Project site, and saw the same. Hopefully it will be corrected soon.

 

[rosemadderlake]

While I am not going to get myself started on the Charlie Project (discrediting vigorously!) today, I did find on her blog dated July 20, 2013 that she is having computer issues. http://charleyross.wordpress.com/

I read her blog when checking out the Lucy Johnson MP story and she had referenced a link to another ‘missing woman found alive after 50 years’ story that I found riveting. Some may already know about this woman, Esther Gavin (The War Bride) but in case not, here are a couple of links to her incredible story, and the amazing work by the detective, families and press and Icelandic press.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/01/the_war_bride_portland_police.html

http://www.icelandreview.com/icelan...War_Bride_Probed_in_the_US_0_386021.news.aspx

I wish we had some news about Sylvia... We have to find her!

 

[GoingByMyGut]

While I am not going to get myself started on the Charlie Project (discrediting vigorously!) today, I did find on her blog dated July 20, 2013 that she is having computer issues. http://charleyross.wordpress.com/

I read her blog when checking out the Lucy Johnson MP story and she had referenced a link to another ‘missing woman found alive after 50 years’ story that I found riveting. Some may already know about this woman, Esther Gavin (The War Bride) but in case not, here are a couple of links to her incredible story, and the amazing work by the detective, families and press and Icelandic press.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/01/the_war_bride_portland_police.html

http://www.icelandreview.com/icelan...War_Bride_Probed_in_the_US_0_386021.news.aspx

I wish we had some news about Sylvia... We have to find her!

BBM1: Thanks for the blog link, Rose. I was unaware she did that. Yes, I got an email back from her today. I imagine, given the scope of the CP, that computer troubles are no small thing in her world. She's just getting her computer back today after being repaired and said she plans to update SL's case file today as well.

BBM2: This woman was found? I did not get that from the articles, but maybe I was going too fast? What absolutely kills me is it sounds like she lost her kids because she couldn't afford to get them out of hock! Like a pawn shop for children! Heartbreaking! And that the son thinks he may have seen her murdered ... what a thing to live with. Good to see the families crossing international boundaries as well as family lines to heal.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

This woman was found? I did not get that from the articles, but maybe I was going too fast?

Quoting myself, just to followup on that thought. This article relates that Esther did indeed create a new ID for herself and lived a long life. Thanks, Rose. Tragic story, but interesting end.

 

[gajonka]

Ahh, the Mega-Sleuths continue to impress (smile).


Yes, the J-MOOOSE Rrrrrocks!

...well, on my end... nothing back from Douglas. Time for Operation Fuhrman. While Mark Fuhrman found himself 100 feet beneath life as we know it, he was able to bounce-back, recover and emerge from the depths when he cracked the Martha Moxley Case. Fuhrman visited Massachusetts and - employing his clearly apparent rich abilities within the arena of homicide investigatations - he pieced together a dark, cold case... one where the elite did not have to answer to the law. Michael Skakel finally met his truly overdue (20+ years!!!) demise... thanks to Furhman's convictions and ability to expose a sophmorish and awful investigation by local LE, who had never encountered such an event before, homicides didn't occure in elite land,MA.

I feel there are substantial parallels between the MOxley Case and Sylvia's Case. Furhman has been rotting on the vine over at fox news where he holds a microphone and jib-jabs it up at Greta Van Susteran's behest. He did pen another book - an interesting one which spends the bulk of its pages describing how murder cases represent a metaphor for blood... and the media is the vamp. The book is called "The Murder Business: How the Media Turns Crime Into Entertainment and Subverts Justice" ( so much for "less being more" when ot comes time to give your book a title) again and again, Fuhrman impresses,,, [ I can;t speak to what happened in Brentwood - but Fuhrman has shown that the chances of him being a dirty , glove planting rogue cop appear to have marginally diminshed in a manner ,,, well, in a remarkable way. I think it is time to resuce him and gve him a chance to crack a case that mirrors the MOXLEY CASE.. wouldn;t you agree>?!?!?!?!

(OT) Here's a look at his other work- this guy also writes well:

Murder in Brentwood (February 1, 1997);
Murder in Greenwich: Who Killed Martha Moxley?
Murder in Spokane: Catching a Serial Killer
Death and Justice: An Expose of Oklahoma's Death Row Machine
Silent Witness: The Untold Story of Terri Schiavo's Death (July 1, 2005);
A Simple Act of Murder: November 22, 1963 (May 2, 2006); ISBN 0-06-072154-5

I feel that Mark Fuhrman would be a valuable resource - I will try to convince him of the identical features present between Sylvia's case and the Moxley case... as this could be a chance for him to break-free from Gret and earn another victory for justice... there are so many matching features between the two cases.... Wish me luck!!

Keep up the great work,, we will there.

THE Gajonka


P.s.: I had posted a few spots over at the "Mark Redwin/Dylan Redwin e" thread - but most of them were removed by the mod. I just cannot understand how the father is able to eat his meals without being shackeled in steel chains... so disturbing given the evidence - I mean, look at the Dr. Phil show - gee -that's enough to get the tape out and start pasting other things to it to show a grand jury. Just disturbing.

Wishng you the best - ALWAYS... (wink)

 

[Jmoose]

Ahh, the Mega-Sleuths continue to impress (smile).


Yes, the J-MOOOSE Rrrrrocks!

...well, on my end... nothing back from Douglas. Time for Operation Fuhrman. While Mark Fuhrman found himself 100 feet beneath life as we know it, he was able to bounce-back, recover and emerge from the depths when he cracked the Martha Moxley Case. Fuhrman visited Massachusetts and - employing his clearly apparent rich abilities within the arena of homicide investigatations - he pieced together a dark, cold case... one where the elite did not have to answer to the law. Michael Skakel finally met his truly overdue (20+ years!!!) demise... thanks to Furhman's convictions and ability to expose a sophmorish and awful investigation by local LE, who had never encountered such an event before, homicides didn't occure in elite land,MA.

I feel there are substantial parallels between the MOxley Case and Sylvia's Case. Furhman has been rotting on the vine over at fox news where he holds a microphone and jib-jabs it up at Greta Van Susteran's behest. He did pen another book - an interesting one which spends the bulk of its pages describing how murder cases represent a metaphor for blood... and the media is the vamp. The book is called "The Murder Business: How the Media Turns Crime Into Entertainment and Subverts Justice" ( so much for "less being more" when ot comes time to give your book a title) again and again, Fuhrman impresses,,, [ I can;t speak to what happened in Brentwood - but Fuhrman has shown that the chances of him being a dirty , glove planting rogue cop appear to have marginally diminshed in a manner ,,, well, in a remarkable way. I think it is time to resuce him and gve him a chance to crack a case that mirrors the MOXLEY CASE.. wouldn;t you agree>?!?!?!?!

(OT) Here's a look at his other work- this guy also writes well:

Murder in Brentwood (February 1, 1997);
Murder in Greenwich: Who Killed Martha Moxley?
Murder in Spokane: Catching a Serial Killer
Death and Justice: An Expose of Oklahoma's Death Row Machine
Silent Witness: The Untold Story of Terri Schiavo's Death (July 1, 2005);
A Simple Act of Murder: November 22, 1963 (May 2, 2006); ISBN 0-06-072154-5

I feel that Mark Fuhrman would be a valuable resource - I will try to convince him of the identical features present between Sylvia's case and the Moxley case... as this could be a chance for him to break-free from Gret and earn another victory for justice... there are so many matching features between the two cases.... Wish me luck!!

Keep up the great work,, we will there.

THE Gajonka


P.s.: I had posted a few spots over at the "Mark Redwin/Dylan Redwin e" thread - but most of them were removed by the mod. I just cannot understand how the father is able to eat his meals without being shackeled in steel chains... so disturbing given the evidence - I mean, look at the Dr. Phil show - gee -that's enough to get the tape out and start pasting other things to it to show a grand jury. Just disturbing.

Wishng you the best - ALWAYS... (wink)

I will have to take a look at the Redwine case; don't know anything about it

 

[rosemadderlake]

I feel there are substantial parallels between the MOxley Case and Sylvia's Case. Furhman has been rotting on the vine over at fox news where he holds a microphone and jib-jabs it up at Greta Van Susteran's behest. He did pen another book - an interesting one which spends the bulk of its pages describing how murder cases represent a metaphor for blood... and the media is the vamp. The book is called "The Murder Business: How the Media Turns Crime Into Entertainment and Subverts Justice" ( so much for "less being more" when ot comes time to give your book a title) again and again, Fuhrman impresses,,, [ I can;t speak to what happened in Brentwood - but Fuhrman has shown that the chances of him being a dirty , glove planting rogue cop appear to have marginally diminshed in a manner ,,, well, in a remarkable way. I think it is time to resuce him and gve him a chance to crack a case that mirrors the MOXLEY CASE.. wouldn;t you agree>?!?!?!?!

G -trimmed by me and jumping off your post:

-I do believe there are really good unsung detectives who work diligently on the coldest cases and it takes time. Heidi Balch was pieced together here in NJ after a very long time this year.
http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2013/03/severed_head_found_on_hopewell.html

When something is unsolved for this long whether Sylvia was murdered, left of her own accord, or something else, all scenarios are tragic after almost 39 years. -There is enough interpretation of hearsay evidence going on over at the Charlie Project and by Websleuths member on you tube that it just makes me wonder what the agenda is all about. –Ok, maybe it was just to name names. Mission accomplished. I see the desire to elevate Sylvia’s case but with little evidence to go on, speculation is being stated as fact. -I see how cases can get very muddled this way.

-Was Sylvia murdered in as brutal and spontaneous a fashion as Moxley? That is one possibility.
Imo -There are no parallels to the Moxley case, though -no elite, no body recovered, no murder weapon, no official POI/suspects. Sylvia’s case could well be elevated with a really good investigative reporter but it will require an exposé.

O/T Bbm: To read that Fox news used Fuhrman as a commentator on the Zimmerman case is the irony of injustice, somehow… but that’s Fox news for you, fanning the flames, creating more controversy, more news, more money, more news, and so it goes… It is true, the Media is the vamp.

http://www.politicususa.com/2013/06...-mark-furman-talk-george-zimmerman-trial.html

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Trimmed by me, Rose.

-I do believe there are really good unsung detectives who work diligently on the coldest cases and it takes time. Heidi Balch was pieced together here in NJ after a very long time this year.
http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2013/03/severed_head_found_on_hopewell.html

BBM: This was a stellar example of just that, Rose. I'm glad you mentioned it. A little close to home for us, huh? I remember this case from when they found the head a few years after my daughter was born. It was like a little of the grit of NYC (prostitution, serial murder) came rolling across the green hills of Hopewell. Now, 24 years later, they know who it belonged to. Yes, it gives a person hope

 

[rosemadderlake]

Trimmed by me, Rose.


BBM: This was a stellar example of just that, Rose. I'm glad you mentioned it. A little close to home for us, huh? I remember this case from when they found the head a few years after my daughter was born. It was like a little of the grit of NYC (prostitution, serial murder) came rolling across the green hills of Hopewell. Now, 24 years later, they know who it belonged to. Yes, it gives a person hope

Thanks GBMG – I had been thinking about the Heidi Balch case and it is remarkable how the detectives and forensics solved the mystery after 24 years.

Bbm: And yes, I remember it too from back then and it was close to home. It was like something horribly medieval happened in an otherwise pastoral setting-- way beyond what anyone read in the daily papers and it conjured up the worst imaginings.

After reading about the “found alive after missing for 50 years women”, seems it would be a lot harder (not impossible) to walk away from your life today, and just get a new identity. Back then, and in 1975 women especially could begin anew, get married, change a name, no paperwork necessary to cross borders, and the telegram was the overnight communication.

Sylvia’s disappearance is daunting, especially with the serial killers on the loose back then and other possibilities like abduction and human trafficking. I can’t help but think that with certain aspects of Sylvia’s life, what is unknown about her fiancé and their relationship, the groups of people who knew her who remain silent and unknown; it is very possible LE does know more. I would not be surprised.

 

[Jmoose]

Thanks GBMG – I had been thinking about the Heidi Balch case and it is remarkable how the detectives and forensics solved the mystery after 24 years.

Bbm: And yes, I remember it too from back then and it was close to home. It was like something horribly medieval happened in an otherwise pastoral setting-- way beyond what anyone read in the daily papers and it conjured up the worst imaginings.

After reading about the “found alive after missing for 50 years women”, seems it would be a lot harder (not impossible) to walk away from your life today, and just get a new identity. Back then, and in 1975 women especially could begin anew, get married, change a name, no paperwork necessary to cross borders, and the telegram was the overnight communication.

Sylvia’s disappearance is daunting, especially with the serial killers on the loose back then and other possibilities like abduction and human trafficking. I can’t help but think that with certain aspects of Sylvia’s life, what is unknown about her fiancé and their relationship, the groups of people who knew her who remain silent and unknown; it is very possible LE does know more. I would not be surprised.

Rose-I don't know about what was investigated in 1975, but I think that there was an effort to try and find out what happened subsequent to that time; BBM-I agree with this statement, and try to hold onto hope that they will at least find Sylvia. I would like for ASWDH and MMQC to finally know

 

[Jmoose]

Just went to see if the unverified info on Sylvia's Charley project page has been edited-not so far (I wonder why?)

The site owner is blogging as recently as this week, so I think she must have had at least a little time to do it. I am not saying that the info there is necessarily incorrect; merely unverified by a known source. I don't think this is helpful, since without additional evidence, no investigation is pending.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Just went to see if the unverified info on Sylvia's Charley project page has been edited-not so far (I wonder why?)

The site owner is blogging as recently as this week, so I think she must have had at least a little time to do it. I am not saying that the info there is necessarily incorrect; merely unverified by a known source. I don't think this is helpful, since without additional evidence, no investigation is pending.

I'll add a link to the Charlie Project update page. It looks like many cases were updated in July, but not Sylvia as of 07/30/13.

I understood that the 4/15/13 unverified update was obtained from Websleuths speculations by someone who is not connected to Sylvia's case.

http://www.charleyproject.org/updates.html

 

[rosemadderlake]

Okay, re Q 1, she says that she thinks the newspaper names may be artifacts from an old MP page she copied over to create SL's page and she removed them.

Regarding Q2, she fwd'd me the email of the person who sent her the engagement announcement and case report, and in the email, this person give the detail about the glasses being found and broken. I sent this followup (names removed):

The PA newspaper sources linked to nowhere were removed in June.

 

[rosemadderlake]

BBM1: Thanks for the blog link, Rose. I was unaware she did that. Yes, I got an email back from her today. I imagine, given the scope of the CP, that computer troubles are no small thing in her world. She's just getting her computer back today after being repaired and said she plans to update SL's case file today as well.

BBM2: This woman was found? I did not get that from the articles, but maybe I was going too fast? What absolutely kills me is it sounds like she lost her kids because she couldn't afford to get them out of hock! Like a pawn shop for children! Heartbreaking! And that the son thinks he may have seen her murdered ... what a thing to live with. Good to see the families crossing international boundaries as well as family lines to heal.

bbm: And last week Charlie Project told GBMG she would be updating SL's case on 7/24/13.