NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #3

[alliemay]

Maybe the 6:00 PM "last seen" was the last time Eva saw her, maybe because of the "no publicity" Eva did not even mention what the boyfriend had told her? Maybe there is another police report? One where the BF/F gave a statement? If so maybe the "last time" seen is different. Has anyone asked the cold case investigator if the BF/F ever gave a statement. The only thing that does not fit is the 6:00 pm to 10:00 pm because after 10:00 pm the events seem to fall in a time frame. BF/F going to the friends house, BF/F going to the parents house, phone calls, the drives to certain areas to look for her and the timing of the police report. I wish we could find out if they actually went into the movie theater or not. Even if they watched the movie they could have went for ice cream or something afterward before the fight. Or again, the fight could have been before the movie. Ha, what are the chances of finding anyone who had worked at the movie theater that night, or even someone who if shown a picture of the two would remember them, unless they were fighting in the lobby or doing something out of the ordinary no one would remember.

 

[rosemadderlake]

BBM: Exactly.

And, if he last saw her at 6pm - why go ask MMQC to pick her up at the bus stop at 10pm?

GBMG -quoting myself above because I might be dense...

This thought not at the top of my list BUT, could they have seen someone else (she or they knew) at movie theater/mall area before hand? -Got into fight, she storms off and says 'I'll go to the movie with so and so and take the bus home'? He then returns looking for her?

ETA that would add another "known last person to see her". I think it is a never mind thought...

I guess this brings me to the thought of he feels "suckered". '...expensive ring, she takes off...'

 

[rosemadderlake]

Maybe the 6:00 PM "last seen" was the last time Eva saw her, maybe because of the "no publicity" Eva did not even mention what the boyfriend had told her? Maybe there is another police report? One where the BF/F gave a statement? If so maybe the "last time" seen is different. Has anyone asked the cold case investigator if the BF/F ever gave a statement. The only thing that does not fit is the 6:00 pm to 10:00 pm because after 10:00 pm the events seem to fall in a time frame. BF/F going to the friends house, BF/F going to the parents house, phone calls, the drives to certain areas to look for her and the timing of the police report. I wish we could find out if they actually went into the movie theater or not. Even if they watched the movie they could have went for ice cream or something afterward before the fight. Or again, the fight could have been before the movie. Ha, what are the chances of finding anyone who had worked at the movie theater that night, or even someone who if shown a picture of the two would remember them, unless they were fighting in the lobby or doing something out of the ordinary no one would remember.

bbm: Yes, two police reports would make sense wouldn't it? Especially after MMQC's father asked the assistant district attorney to follow up.

From timeline:
Wed. (?): MMQC & father request help from ADA. “My parents lived next door to an ADA. I then asked my dad to come with me to ask ADA to do something. It was then someone finally contacted parents from LE.”

 

[alliemay]

Yes maybe we are only seeing the initial report, but there could have been a follow up report as well that we are not aware of.

 

[epiphany]

Maybe the 6:00 PM "last seen" was the last time Eva saw her, maybe because of the "no publicity" Eva did not even mention what the boyfriend had told her? Maybe there is another police report? One where the BF/F gave a statement? If so maybe the "last time" seen is different. Has anyone asked the cold case investigator if the BF/F ever gave a statement. The only thing that does not fit is the 6:00 pm to 10:00 pm because after 10:00 pm the events seem to fall in a time frame. BF/F going to the friends house, BF/F going to the parents house, phone calls, the drives to certain areas to look for her and the timing of the police report. I wish we could find out if they actually went into the movie theater or not. Even if they watched the movie they could have went for ice cream or something afterward before the fight. Or again, the fight could have been before the movie. Ha, what are the chances of finding anyone who had worked at the movie theater that night, or even someone who if shown a picture of the two would remember them, unless they were fighting in the lobby or doing something out of the ordinary no one would remember.

IF SL was last seen in the Richmond Ave mall area, I think she would have found her way to Farrell's to call someone to pick her up.

BBM

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY NY - Sylvia Alice Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #1


No, just an ordinary date. Movie and maybe a soda later was the norm.

 

[Jmoose]

IF SL was last seen in the Richmond Ave mall area, I think she would have found her way to Farrell's to call someone to pick her up.

BBM

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY NY - Sylvia Alice Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #1


No, just an ordinary date. Movie and maybe a soda later was the norm.

I think this is right-and I don't know about you ladies, but I always used to make sure I had money to call for a ride or take a cab if necessary-I will bet Sylvia at least had money for a phone call (a dime?)

 

[GoingByMyGut]

GBMG - The facts of that evening are sketchy, indeed. LE was taking input from one person (time last seen) and stating where from another (hearsay place last seen)? -And you are right, they don't agree unless the BF/F said 6pm is when I last saw her.

bbm: Is there no knowledge of what the argument was about? Wouldn't he have felt obligated to explain something to her parents?

Also, something that has puzzled me in the timeline bbm below. And, if he last saw her at 6pm - why go ask MMQC to pick her up at the bus stop at 10pm?

BBM1: If I understand you correctly re the above, I have to say I do not believe the LE would record this info in any other way except to indicate the time and place when and from which the person reported missing disappeared. In my mind, there is no possibility that they took, say, the time EL last saw her and the place the BF/F last saw her. The relevance of the info to LE is that it reflects SL's last known whereabouts -- the date and time SL was last know to have been before vanishing. If it was hearsay when EL provided the info, it was on LE to verify it, IMO.

BBM2: Maybe he did.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

bbm: Skeet, this is a good a possibility as well. - IF they did see a movie, and she stormed from the car at a traffic light, he then has to keep driving. What if she sees someone she knows (from the movie theater, or ice cream parlor). Did she make a phone call? Ask for a ride and was dropped off at a destination of another friend, Wagner, another bus stop?

Imo: Running into someone you know in your hometown area movie theater on a Saturday night may be more likely than running into a serial killer.

BBM: I agree, Rose. But for the sake of argument, I also have to say that I think a serial killer might seem a lot less threatening in broad daylight. Not going there, necessarily, just recognizing the possibility.

 

[alliemay]

http://www.payphone-project.com/numbers/usa/NY/STATEN_ISLAND/

Who would think there is a site dedicated to pay phones , anyway near the bottom of the page it says past or present phone numbers. Who knows if it is possible that these phone booths were there in 1975....just fishing around on the web for things.
RICHMOND SVCE STA INC 2443 RICHMOND AVE
(718) 494-9787 HOLIDAY INN OF SI 1415 RICHMOND AVE
(718) 494-9788 HOLIDAY INN OF SI 1415 RICHMOND AVE
(718) 494-9792 ROUSE SI SHOPPING CTR 2655 RICHMOND AVE
(718) 494-9802 ROUSE SI SHOPPING CTR 2655 RICHMOND AVE

 

[GoingByMyGut]

GBMG -quoting myself above because I might be dense...

This thought not at the top of my list BUT, could they have seen someone else (she or they knew) at movie theater/mall area before hand? -Got into fight, she storms off and says 'I'll go to the movie with so and so and take the bus home'? He then returns looking for her?

ETA that would add another "known last person to see her". I think it is a never mind thought...

I guess this brings me to the thought of he feels "suckered". '...expensive ring, she takes off...'

BBM (I removed BBY): I think you're right re changing the person who last saw her. Also, IMO, if she was as private a person as I think she was, and shared super intimate things with few people; and if she was as upset as it seems she seems to have been; for example, if the BF/F possibly having the ring is the sign of a breakup -- a life changer, IOW -- I do not believe she would have been able to change gears like that, to wear her heart on her sleeve with those she wasn't super close to her, to bury her feelings enough to be "social," or to even think of watching a movie. JMO.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Gajonka, if you are still reading this thread, I am wondering if you could come online and help us with something. I am curious as to the source of some information you shared with us very early in thread 1.

In this post (the relevant parts of which I have pasted below), you say the BF/F provided 3 different stories about how SL ran off from him. (I understand that you created the speech for this post, and that the quotes below are not words that were actually spoken by SL's BF/F. I point this out so that others reading this post who may not have read thread 1 do not misinterpret the language as his.)

Gajonka (Thread 1, partial post, BBM):


“A. To Sylvia Lwowski's Mom and Dad: "Uhmmm, oh, well, we wuz at a red light, and uh, she threw the glasses on the dashboard. And she ran off."

B. To the police: "Well, ya see, what happened was, uh, (cough), uh there was a traffic jam... yeah, and uh, we were stuck in the traffic jam, and uh, well.. she then threw her glasses at dashboard... and she opened the door... and she ran away. Ya know, a runa way, people do it all the time - you read the papers. Yeah, a traffic jam, that was it."

C. To a private investigator hired to find the answers and do the work unperformed by police (so it appears): "Oh, well, we wuz drivin ya see, and uh, we got into an argument... so then I rolled up to a stop sign. Then, it was then (cough), at that point (couigh) when she took her glasses off, and slammed them against my dashboard. Then she, uh, she opened the car door, yeah, yeah, she opened the door, and then... uhm... then she ran off, ya know, like a runaway... you read the papers,,, happens everyday.” ”
​

Assuming that, though the words are your "simulation," the content of each statement is true -- in other words, that these three slightly different stories were recorded in some form by someone, somewhere, here are my questions about your post:

(1) Re item B, what is your source for the BF/F's statement to police? If true, it verifies that some level of police investigation took place (regardless of whether it was adequate), probably in 1975, and this is a question we have been asking on this thread for some time.

(2) Similarly, re item C, what is your source for this statement by the BF/F to the PI? IIRC, we have been told that no PI report exists today. Is this perhaps not the case? Was it the PI who uncovered these minor discrepancies in the BF/F's story for SL's family?

Thanks in advance for your help with this.

 

[epiphany]

Bumping up VI ASWDeerHunter's posts:

The understanding of the discussion following the BF's return was the argument acurd during a "traffic light" by the Staten Island Mall, By a "stop sign" at the Mall or during a "traffic Jam" by the Staten Island Mall...

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY NY - Sylvia Alice Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #2


And

Charles came over to the residents around 5pm to see a movie Sylvia at a cinema about 20 min away. The theater was were Crazy Eddies was off Richmond Ave just south off the Staten Island Mall. Charles returned to the house approx. 10:30 stating that during an argument Sylvia had thrown her glasses against the dash board of the car and ran off...

...A week or two later the family hired a privet investigator and am not sure of the outcome of that investigation except a different version of her running off came out. Charles first said that at a stop sign, in the heat of an argument, she fled the car. The PI's version was that during a traffic jam, she then fled the car...

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY NY - Sylvia Alice Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #1

 

[epiphany]

No apples please: Are these significant discrepancies in BF/F's "versions"?

At a traffic light, a traffic jam or a stop sign.

I don't think so.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

No apples please: Are these significant discrepancies in BF/F's "versions"?

At a traffic light, a traffic jam or a stop sign.

I don't think so.

BBM: Not IMO -- that's why I refer to them as "minor discrepancies." What matters to me is evidence of LE and PI investigations.

What's an apple? I mean, outside of the fruit ...

 

[epiphany]

We know from MMQC that she had been told by EL/Mom that the PI had followed her.

Did the PI follow BF/F as well?

Did PI go to Farrell's, go to WC sorority floor/dorm?

Did EL/Mom leave any notes/a file/papers of her thoughts about SL's disappearance, who she had spoken to, copies of the PI report, etc.? IMO, Yes.

 

[epiphany]

Any thoughts about when SL didn't return, let's say, at the one year mark?

Who cares about her job prospects, her future academic pursuits? Why not shout from the rooftops? Where's my daughter?

 

[rosemadderlake]

BBM1: If I understand you correctly re the above, I have to say I do not believe the LE would record this info in any other way except to indicate the time and place when and from which the person reported missing disappeared. In my mind, there is no possibility that they took, say, the time EL last saw her and the place the BF/F last saw her. The relevance of the info to LE is that it reflects SL's last known whereabouts -- the date and time SL was last know to have been before vanishing. If it was hearsay when EL provided the info, it was on LE to verify it, IMO.

BBM2: Maybe he did.

BBM: It is confusing!

El had to wait 24 hours before filing the police report and she only knows what time she last saw Sylvia.

And yes, LE would have to ask BF/F for time last seen from him, ergo, a 2nd PR must be on file?

 

[epiphany]

EL/Mom didn't appear to cut MMQC any breaks early on: had PI follow her; called her to ask her to tell SL to pick up the China set; appeared at her elopement; withheld details of the evening from her, etc.

Does this sound like a woman, a Mother, who may not have behaved similarly towards BF/F? This is a strong female. I'm not convinced EL/Mom didn't say or do whatever she felt she had to with him, his family. I certainly would have...Hence, LE's use of word "harassment" (DeerHunter on radio show).

IOW, is BF/F being rude on the phone, etc. gonna stop her? Just MO: Nope. This Mother lost her entire family in Germany. Hell No, IMO.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

BBM: It is confusing!

El had to wait 24 hours before filing the police report and she only knows what time she last saw Sylvia.

And yes, LE would have to ask BF/F for time last seen from him, ergo, a 2nd PR must be on file?

BBM: Does she? Not if BF/F told her it happened at 6. If a BF showed up at my house saying my daughter took off like that, the first Qs out of my mouth would have been where and when.

Besides, ASWDeer Hunter said SL left the house at 5 that day. So if it was EL's "time last seen" why wouldn't 5 be the time? And why wouldn't the "place last seen" be the L home on Goodall St.? If you're saying the time the BF/F last saw SL was hearsay from LE's POV, then wouldn't the location associated with that time also be hearsay? Why would they take one piece of secondhand info and not two?

I'm not trying to be argumentative ... maybe you all don't see it the same way? To me, suddenly, the time and place last seen are locked up tight. JMO.

 

[epiphany]

OTOH, let's say EL/Mom did back off BF/F.

Why? What did she know/understand about Sylvia or events just prior to her disappearance that elicited such a response from her?