NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #3

[rosemadderlake]

T/P/O: Time and Place of Occurrence

I had been looking at the PR "will not handle" as an interdepartmental memo, but was it Det. Lennon who took the information from Eva and did he advise her they will not handle because she is over 21, free will, etc.? Also, if I have this right, there was the 48 MP hour mark; bring list of names, and pictures. Did EL give a list of names to LE, in 1975?

I can see where this could be decoded into will not investigate because there is no notation in the right hand preliminary investigation column.

So my VI question is: when the ADA pushed LE to follow up and contact the Lwowski family a few days later, what did LE report? Was the BF/F contacted by LE? Imo: Yes he was contacted in 1975.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

I had been looking at the PR "will not handle" as an interdepartmental memo, but was it Det. Lennon who took the information from Eva and did he advise her they will not handle because she is over 21, free will, etc.? Also, if I have this right, there was the 48 MP hour mark; bring list of names, and pictures. Did EL give a list of names to LE, in 1975?

I can see where this could be decoded into will not investigate because there is no notation in the right hand preliminary investigation column.

So my VI question is: when the ADA pushed LE to follow up and contact the Lwowski family a few days later, what did LE report? Was the BF/F contacted by LE?

BBM1: FWIW, I agree with this, Rose. BTW, did you see my response to you yesterday on the time issue? Am I missing something really dumb there? Or did it get missed bc the posts were flying so fast?

BBM2: I believe MMCQ said this, but I think EL must have been told 24 hours from the time of disappearance. When I was looking at the PR yesterday, I noticed that the "time last seen" is 6 PM Sat., and EL files the PR at 6 PM Sun. She must have been sitting in the precinct lobby, waiting for the clock to strike 6. To me this says a lot about her state of mind.

 

[rosemadderlake]

OT-but your story of your gradparents is so interesting! What does your family think happened to him?

It is interesting GBMG, and heartbreaking. Wasn't it 1929 IIRC from earlier mention? People who were in financial trouble were desperate then; loan-sharks, suicide after the market crash. How very sad. And for your grandmother, wow, unimaginable. How did she manage?

 

[rosemadderlake]

BBM1: FWIW, I agree with this, Rose. BTW, did you see my response to you yesterday on the time issuehttp://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9768072&postcount=469? Am I missing something really dumb there? Or did it get missed bc the posts were flying so fast?

BBM2: I believe MMCQ said this, but I think EL must have been told 24 hours from the time of disappearance. When I was looking at the PR yesterday, I noticed that the "time last seen" is 6 PM Sat., and EL files the PR at 6 PM Sun. She must have been sitting in the precinct lobby, waiting for the clock to strike 6. To me this says a lot about her state of mind.

bbm: Yes, I did, but I became overloaded with swirling posts, military vs reg time. Today, it occurred to me that Lennon was the intake officer and he advised EL.

Imo: Lennon's time stamp could denote something earlier (advice on the phone) in military time, or it is his note of advice to her at 6:45pm reg time, after intake.

ETA: If LE contacted BF/F after ADA follow up - IMO there is another PR file, for sure.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

It is interesting GBMG, and heartbreaking. Wasn't it 1929 IIRC from earlier mention? People who were in financial trouble were desperate then; loan-sharks, suicide after the market crash. How very sad. And for your grandmother, wow, unimaginable. How did she manage?

Thanks, Rose. Yes, Sept. of 1929, so technically just before Black Friday and the crash, but I don't know what effects were felt leading up to the GD. Honestly, I don't know how my grandmother did it, but she did it well! She had her mother when my father was a baby, so she went to work right away, though she was on public assistance for a time. They moved to a smaller, but still respectable apartment in the South Bronx (they had been in one of the beautiful huge apts. around Poe Park.) She changed jobs a few times ... eventually spent decades as the manager of the Bell Telephone employee cafeteria. But my father remembers his older brother working as a grocery delivery boy and bringing home unsellable veggies and day-old bread, and my grandmother "lifting" pencils from work, so I know it couldn't have been easy.

 

[rosemadderlake]

IF 6pm was when the BF/F told the family he last saw Sylvia and didn't show up until 10:30pm to tell them, I can definitely understand why they would have many more questions. -Like, in addition to what was the argument was about, why did he wait 4 plus hours to tell her parents? How did he know she wouldn't be home?

I can see why the 4 hour window is the focus, and was the early focus of thread #1 if the T/P/O is 6pm according to the BF/F.

Likewise, if the T/P/O is at 6pm, K-mart Plaza, the chance that someone saw SL, and might remember her after she left the car is greater as well.

 

[rosemadderlake]

If the BF/F did not kill SL, the T/P/O means someone else definitely knows something else. Someone she knew is very likely...

 

[Dushi]

If he stated that he last saw her at 6PM, why did he send MMQC to the bust stop hours later?

 

[Odyssey]

My memory is a little fuzzy after being away from this for awhile...

Does anyone know if the person who claimed that BF/F had the ring was ever talked to by LE? If not, does LE know this person's identity so they COULD talk to this person?

I'd like to know LE's opinion on it.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

bbm: Yes, I did, but I became overloaded with swirling posts, military vs reg time. Today, it occurred to me that Lennon was the intake officer and he advised EL.

Imo: Lennon's time stamp could denote something earlier (advice on the phone) in military time, or it is his note of advice to her at 6:45pm reg time, after intake.

ETA: If LE contacted BF/F after ADA follow up - IMO there is another PR file, for sure.

BBM1: I know what you mean! It was frenzied

BBM2: How is it that the hieroglyphics of the PR are revealing new things so late in the game? Maybe bc we know more and are reading it differently? Re Lennon, do you see this somewhere on the report? That he's the one taking the report? Or are you guessing?

FWIW, I tend to think Lennon was someone "in the field." I may be wrong about departmental organization, but I think street officers manned the "front desk" and did things like take initial reports, whereas detectives -- fewer and farther between -- worked cases in the field. JMO.

BBM3: I am wondering if maybe, based on EL's emotional phone call the prior evening, someone might have questioned the BF/F on Sunday, before EL arrived. To me, that would explain both the possibility of a 4:45 (1645) timestamp and a 6:45 timestamp. Both are ridiculously early in the scheme of things, but if someone said, "Go find out what this is all about" before EL arrived ... the decision might have been in the bag.

I agree that the ADA visit could have been another prompt to investigate the BF/F. It's just hard for me to believe they could have or would have arrived at "Det. Lennon advises will not handle" without some additional input.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Attaching PR. -Wondering what the PD Code 082 in box 36 means?

Here is link to NYPD radio codes – wonder if it is the same as 10-82, or possible variation without the prefix "1"?

Assignment Status (interim):
10-82 Verification/Arrest (give number detained)


http://www.n2nov.net/nypdcodes.html

 

[Jmoose]

I hope there's a prefix to 082-police dept code 82 means prostitution!

 

[rosemadderlake]

BBM1: I know what you mean! It was frenzied

BBM2: How is it that the hieroglyphics of the PR are revealing new things so late in the game? Maybe bc we know more and are reading it differently? Re Lennon, do you see this somewhere on the report? That he's the one taking the report? Or are you guessing?

FWIW, I tend to think Lennon was someone "in the field." I may be wrong about departmental organization, but I think street officers manned the "front desk" and did things like take initial reports, whereas detectives -- fewer and farther between -- worked cases in the field. JMO.

BBM3: I am wondering if maybe, based on EL's emotional phone call the prior evening, someone might have questioned the BF/F on Sunday, before EL arrived. To me, that would explain both the possibility of a 4:45 (1645) timestamp and a 6:45 timestamp. Both are ridiculously early in the scheme of things, but if someone said, "Go find out what this is all about" before EL arrived ... the decision might have been in the bag.

I agree that the ADA visit could have been another prompt to investigate the BF/F. It's just hard for me to believe they could have or would have arrived at "Det. Lennon advises will not handle" without some additional input.

bbm - Yes because we know more and because of your thump on the head moment about 6pm on T/P/O! It could be Det Lennon's printing on the report. I guess the possibility dawned on me that he may have been the one taking the report directly from EL, and advising her, too. His name is on the report but I viewed him as a secondary review and decision, up until yesterday!

bbm You could be right on about this.

Other thoughts -Sunday night may be a slow night at precinct with reduced staff? Maybe Det. Lennon was at front desk?

ETA -Imo: I don't think they would have questioned BF/F without a formally filed report.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

My memory is a little fuzzy after being away from this for awhile...

Does anyone know if the person who claimed that BF/F had the ring was ever talked to by LE? If not, does LE know this person's identity so they COULD talk to this person?

I'd like to know LE's opinion on it.

BBM1: AFAIK, this is in the realm of the unknown, as far as the thread is concerned, Odyssey. IIRC, MMQC could not recall his name ... but surely, since the person's brother was in the BF/Fs band, LE could find it if interested.

BBM2: I think you have a lot of company on that one

 

[rosemadderlake]

Sun. 6 PM: EL reports her missing to LE (time as per PR). ASWDeerhunter: “The following day, Eva went to 122 pct to make a formal missing persons report and the police basically said she was over 21 and didn’t really spend too much time or resources in locating her.” MMQC: “LE informed her that SL was an adult and was not considered missing until missing for more than 48 hours as I recall. Then they were to bring current photo and a list of what she was wearing etc. Then LE would contact them at their home to follow up and investigate.”

bbm: From timeline -Imo: 'Det Lennon advises will not handle' directly to EL.

My question is what about after 30 days? Isn't that a missing persons marker to trip an investigation?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9145230&highlight=uncertainty#post9145230

 

[Odyssey]

Sun. 6 PM: EL reports her missing to LE (time as per PR). ASWDeerhunter: “The following day, Eva went to 122 pct to make a formal missing persons report and the police basically said she was over 21 and didn’t really spend too much time or resources in locating her.” MMQC: “LE informed her that SL was an adult and was not considered missing until missing for more than 48 hours as I recall. Then they were to bring current photo and a list of what she was wearing etc. Then LE would contact them at their home to follow up and investigate.”

bbm: From timeline -Imo: 'Det Lennon advises will not handle' directly to EL.

My question is what about after 30 days? Isn't that a missing persons marker to trip an investigation?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9145230&highlight=uncertainty#post9145230

My best guess on the 'will not handle' was that Det Lennon was a homicide detective and was saying that he will not handle, meaning it will stay with missing persons.

Pure speculation, though...

 

[GoingByMyGut]

From Bessie, Thread 2, post 285: "I forgot to tell you guys that I asked a retired NY detective about the notation. He didn't think it was unusual because missing adult cases where there's no glaring evidence of a crime routinely are turned over to the missing persons unit."

Given the circumstances, I don't understand why it would even have been considered by homicide. But I supposed "turned over to" could also just mean from "command central"? from intake?

 

[rosemadderlake]

From Bessie, Thread 2, post 285: "I forgot to tell you guys that I asked a retired NY detective about the notation. He didn't think it was unusual because missing adult cases where there's no glaring evidence of a crime routinely are turned over to the missing persons unit."

Given the circumstances, I don't understand why it would even have been considered by homicide. But I supposed "turned over to" could also just mean from "command central"? from intake?

bbm: Thanks for bringing Bessie's post forward, GBMG - And, yes, some determination of endangered or not would be assessed on PR intake, and the circumstances in the beginning appear as a couple having an argument, she storms off in a public place, no mental or physical disability, etc.

I guess the thing that hangs me up on the 6pm, and I circle back around - is that what the BF/F told EL (his story), or did she relay 6pm in an emotional state confusing the time she last saw SL, or was it possibly a clerical error. Though I doubt clerical error, I say this because the dates are corrected in that area of report and the 6pms are exactly 24 hours apart and he returned after the movie time..

ETA: Or is it possible when LE was taking the info, the BF/F did not say exact time to EL so she did not know?

 

[GoingByMyGut]

bbm: Thanks for bringing Bessie's post forward, GBMG - And, yes, some determination of endangered or not would be assessed on PR intake, and the circumstances in the beginning appear as a couple having an argument, she storms off in a public place, no mental or physical disability, etc.

I guess the thing that hangs me up on the 6pm, and I circle back around - is that what the BF/F told EL (his story), or did she relay 6pm in an emotional state confusing the time she last saw SL, or was it possibly a clerical error. Though I doubt clerical error, I say this because the dates are corrected in that area of report and the 6pms are exactly 24 hours apart and he returned after the movie time..

ETA: Or is it possible when LE was taking the info, the BF/F did not say exact time to EL so she did not know?

BBM1: I could see this happening, if it weren't for the "place last seen" of the K-Mart Plaza.

BBM2: In that case, I think LE would have recorded a window, say "6-10."

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Cropped by me to add something about this one point:

... or did she relay 6pm in an emotional state confusing the time she last saw SL ...

One other thing occurs to me: As upset as she surely was, she was detailed and specific about what SL was wearing and had with her.