NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #3

[GoingByMyGut]

I am sure SL's parents did not want to to falsely accuse the BF/F in the beginning for sure, but (bbm) this is something they may have had strong feelings about.

I have wondered if there was any communication between SL's and BF/F's parents after she disappeared. Imo: Yes, and this could have been a part of not pursuing the BF/F. And, the consideration of SL returning to find her parents going after her BF/F as a suspect would be a mess.

BBM: This could also explain why the BF/F told MMQC that his mother was having a "breakdown" -- the outpouring of one mother's grief to another could have contributed to that. Just a thought.

 

[alliemay]

Original post trimmed by me (OPTBM?).



This is how the fact BBM got inserted into the discussion:

MMQC, Thread 1, Post 903 (BBM): "I did not know exact time of DATE. What I do know is that BF/F did say after movie they had fight she got out of the car and would take the bus home. I truly don't remember BF/F EVER going to parents home that night. Last time seen? To me this means last time EL saw SL. Remember who is filing PR. Not BF/F."

MMQC, Thread 2, Post 255 (BBM): "Not too sure about the plans they had that evening. Knew only about the movie after BF/F came by my parents home to tell me after the movie they had a fight and she got out of the car to take the bus home."

However, she acknowledges it as hearsay:

MMQC, Thread 2, Post 400:"Of course if they never went to a movie???? That is still not confirmed."

Thanks for finding that, I knew the "after the movie" remark was probably made by MMQC, just didn't know where to find it .

 

[alliemay]

GBMG: Quote, "Put yourself in EL's shoes: In my case, I would be running off at the mouth, spilling anything I had seen or heard in the last 24 hours, hoping that some piece of it made sense to LE or motivated them to do something."

The only reason that I can think of right now, why Eva would not relay the story MMQC told her: She thought MMQC was "hiding" or "covering" for her. If she truly felt this and thought it was a lie she might not mention it to LE. Don't forget she had MMQC followed.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

GBMG: "Put yourself in EL's shoes: In my case, I would be running off at the mouth, spilling anything I had seen or heard in the last 24 hours, hoping that some piece of it made sense to LE or motivated them to do something."

The only reason that I can think of right now, why Eva would not relay the story MMQC told her: She thought MMQC was "hiding" or "covering" for her. If she truly felt this and thought it was a lie she might not mention it to LE. Don't forget she had MMQC followed.

That was my thought as well. If not communicating things to MMQC is a sign of mistrust, how far did the mistrust go? Still, I have to wonder: Not sharing her mistrust w LE is a bold thing her to have done if she wanted to truly empower LE to find her daughter. I mean, when I think this thought through, here's the wall I come to: If EL truly thought MMQC was covering for SL, then does that mean she believed SL ran off? And if so, why go to LE if not to have them help find where she ran off to? And if you think your daughter's friend is complicit in that runaway, why not share that info as well, so LE can question said friend? What would EL even have given LE to work with without that part? Nada, IMO.

But I suppose if EL relayed her belief that SL ran away -- w or w/o her thoughts about MMQC's involvement, and w or w/o the story of the BF/F visiting MMQC -- that could explain "will not handle." IMO, "runaway" says "volition." And if, as I suggested in an earlier post, somehow the BF/F was made to believe that SL ran off w another guy, that could also explain what appears to be a less than vigorous questioning of him. IOW, his story and EL's may have aligned.

 

[rosemadderlake]

he was cooperative with LE and that is part of what silenced the whole thing. -LE then tells SL's family if you continue to call the BF/F - you may get sued for harassment... And then it seems things went very quiet, for decades.

BBM1: That depends on what the BF/F told LE when he was questioned, right? It is not clear to me exactly where the misinformation lies, but i think misinformation is at work here. I cannot fathom how the conflicting accounts we have can be meshed with a reasonable story. JMO

Maybe BF/F's statement answered questions for LE , answers we don't have

She thought MMQC was "hiding" or "covering" for her. If she truly felt this and thought it was a lie she might not mention it to LE. Don't forget she had MMQC followed.

if EL relayed her belief that SL ran away -- w or w/o her thoughts about MMQC's involvement, and w or w/o the story of the BF/F visiting MMQC -- that could explain "will not handle." IMO, "runaway" says "volition." IOW, his story and EL's may have aligned.

trimming some thoughts for the May pole...

 

[Jmoose]

It's been said that EL thought for years that Sylvia took off for some other place, especially since she had MMQC followed. I think that was EL's wishful thinking, because at one point, when MMQC told her about her own mother's response to the elopement, EL promised to speak to MMQC's mother about it-that at least she knew her daughter was alive, and where she was. Apparently, EL wasn't certain that Sylvia was alive. I wonder if EL ran the relationship between Sylvia and MMQC past someone in LE, and they suggested that she hire a PI to have her followed? I am not convinced that EL had an unshakable belief that MMQC knew where Sylvia was-rather, it seems like one avenue that she could follow without counting on LE's lead.

 

[alliemay]

Wish we knew the name of the PI and I wish I could get a return call from the voice on the other end of the recording, just to verify if this person is/was the Assistant DA. Would really like to know what leads each of these individuals followed......In another thought regarding Eva, I wonder if she spoke broken English, does anyone remember when they game over from Germany?

 

[Jmoose]

Wish we knew the name of the PI and I wish I could get a return call from the voice on the other end of the recording, just to verify if this person is/was the Assistant DA. Would really like to know what leads each of these individuals followed......In another thought regarding Eva, I wonder if she spoke broken English, does anyone remember when they game over from Germany?

Skeet-I have some more contact info that I will PM. And...Sylvia was born in Germany and lived there for a few years-I will see if I can find out.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Wish we knew the name of the PI and I wish I could get a return call from the voice on the other end of the recording, just to verify if this person is/was the Assistant DA. Would really like to know what leads each of these individuals followed......In another thought regarding Eva, I wonder if she spoke broken English, does anyone remember when they game over from Germany?

Skeet - IIRC -Lwowskis came over to USA in 1962. Sylvia was nine years old (MMQC). Eva spoke English well (MMQC). Sylvia spoke German with Eva (ASWDH).

 

[rosemadderlake]

It's been said that EL thought for years that Sylvia took off for some other place, especially since she had MMQC followed. I think that was EL's wishful thinking, because at one point, when MMQC told her about her own mother's response to the elopement, EL promised to speak to MMQC's mother about it-that at least she knew her daughter was alive, and where she was. Apparently, EL wasn't certain that Sylvia was alive. I wonder if EL ran the relationship between Sylvia and MMQC past someone in LE, and they suggested that she hire a PI to have her followed? I am not convinced that EL had an unshakable belief that MMQC knew where Sylvia was-rather, it seems like one avenue that she could follow without counting on LE's lead.

bbms-I think all of this rings true at one time or another, or all at the same time sometimes, for this family.

And yes, a PI would be a less transparent investigation. -Wondering if the MTA Bus drivers and K-Mart Plaza vicinity was checked out.

 

[rosemadderlake]

I remember them being strictly 7 and 9 PM, with 2 PM matinees on Saturday, in single screen theaters. Wonkier times came to be as a result of twinning and multiplexing. However, this particular theater twinned in June 1975 (acc. to the comments on the linked page, with the showing of Jaws), so they may have already begun staggered times (e.g., one at 6:45, another at 7) to reduce the impact on the box office.

I was reading the comments in the cinema treasures link - Jaws release date: June 1975 - not sure how the crowds were by September but I found the comment (italics below) on the Island Theater interesting- What were the chances they saw someone they knew? I am guessing the Ice Cream Parlor would be packed on a Sat. night, too.

I can remember a 4 block long waiting line to see Star Wars in 1977 in Paramus, NJ, I think, (special fancy big screen) If it was in my home town chances are pretty good I would see someone I know.

Wonder if anyone knew which movie they were interested in seeing that night.

Cinema Treasures
"…I remember when the theater ran “Jaws”; the way the theater handled the crowds was very poor. The theater was just reopened after twinning, but “Jaws” ran in only one part; the other half was dark. I waited over two hours to get in, and barely got a seat. It turned out that the film was oversold; blocks…"

 

[alliemay]

Went back a few posts but couldn't find out who sent an e-mail to the library to get the yellow pages for 1975, PI's. Jmoose was that you, if so did they ever get back with you?

 

[Jmoose]

I remember seeing "Jaws" in the summer-would it still have been in the theaters by Sept. 6th? I do think that it's likely that any place they stopped after the movie would have been crowded, and could imagine them seeing someone that they knew, IF they stopped someplace public. If only someone outside of this circle, with some additional information, would chime in here.

My best reckoning is that Sylvia is somewhere on Staten Island someplace. Just read this morning about a suspicious fire at a 200 year old building in Historic Richmond Town-every time I see something like that on Staten Island, I think there is a chance that she will be found, hidden away on a property like that, since 1975. Once LE finds her, I think there'll be some hope of figuring out how she got there.

 

[alliemay]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_1975_box_office_number-one_films_in_the_United_States

It looks like Jaws was still running in September, but I'll look around to see when it opened at the Island Theater.

 

[rosemadderlake]

I just tried again to request the private investigators pages of the Yellow Pages from 1975.

Last time I was told where in the library to find them, after my email had stated that I am out of state and NOT able to come to the library.

Hopefully I'll get a better response this time.

Skeet -here is Odyssey's post re: NYPL

 

[Jmoose]

Went back a few posts but couldn't find out who sent an e-mail to the library to get the yellow pages for 1975, PI's. Jmoose was that you, if so did they ever get back with you?

It was Odyssey, and I think the response she got was "the library hours are...", even though she said she lived out of state! She said she is going to try again, and see if they send her the info she requested.

 

[rosemadderlake]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_1975_box_office_number-one_films_in_the_United_States

It look like Jaws was still running in September, but I'll look around to see when it opened at the Island Theater.

There were definitely fewer movies released per year and I think movies had longer runs back then before all the multi-plex theaters. Especially the big block busters - and Jaws may have been one of the first in that category.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Wish we knew the name of the PI and I wish I could get a return call from the voice on the other end of the recording, just to verify if this person is/was the Assistant DA. Would really like to know what leads each of these individuals followed......In another thought regarding Eva, I wonder if she spoke broken English, does anyone remember when they game over from Germany?

BBM: I was thinking about this and even though Eva spoke English well, it was her second language.

If we are having such a hard time deciphering the meaning of the PR, I am not sure how this translated into having guidance and understanding, and knowledge of the options for Eva in 1975.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Its hard to find what I'm looking for as far as the Island Theater goes because they are no longer in business. There is a place called Island Collectibles on Richmond Avenue. I left a message to see if he has any Jaws posters from the theater and if so are there any dates listed. .....oh and thanks guys for finding that post by Oddessey.

Skeet- aren't there a couple of members here who have access to the SI Advance Archives? Can the 1975 newspaper with movie theater listings be accessed online? Or, is that a microfilm file?

 

[alliemay]

It was Odyssey, and I think the response she got was "the library hours are...", even though she said she lived out of state! She said she is going to try again, and see if they send her the info she requested.

Does anyone have a subscription to NewspaperArchives.com, if so maybe we could see the ads for September 6, 1975, .....or any other news from that day.

This is off topic, but I read the book Helter Skelter. I found this ironic: When the murders of Sharon Tate and the others were printed in the paper, in another section, in a very short article, the news of the raid on the ranch was posted. No one knew at that time that one incident had anything to do with the other incident. It would be interesting to see what was going on, on that day she went missing or even the days prior.