NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #3

[Dushi]

Is there any way to find out why the PR was removed?

 

[Jmoose]

Is there any way to find out why the PR was removed?

I doubt that there is any way to know this, but at least it tells me that her case has gotten somebody's attention. I think that Det. Savage was the one who put Sylvia's case on Namus, and so my speculation is that it was the Richmond County DA's office that took it down, for whatever reason. Maybe the last person to see Sylvia got wind of it?

 

[Dushi]

I doubt that there is any way to know this, but at least it tells me that her case has gotten somebody's attention. I think that Det. Savage was the one who put Sylvia's case on Namus, and so my speculation is that it was tha Richmond County DA's office that took it down, for whatever reason. Maybe the last person to see Sylvia got wind of it?

Hmmmm, maybe....

 

[rosemadderlake]

-Just spoke with Kim Law, Sylvia's case Mgr. at NamUs. She said the 1975 Police Report is still there but the "Public Access" has been unchecked, meaning the PR is no longer available to the public. She said it could have something to do the July 2013 removal of Capt. Kelly as a contact but was unsure why. The cold case contact may have that answer.

She was very helpful and said we could submit any possible UID matches directly to her. Depending on the dentals and DNA she may be able to turn around an answer quickly.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

-Just spoke with Kim Law, Sylvia's case Mgr. at NamUs. She said the 1975 Police Report is still there but the "Public Access" has been unchecked, meaning the PR is no longer available to the public. She said it could have something to do the July 2013 removal of Capt. Kelly as a contact but was unsure why. The cold case contact may have that answer.

She was very helpful and said we could submit any possible UID matches directly to her. Depending on the dentals and DNA she may be able to turn around an answer quickly.

Perhaps someone feels the PR reflects poorly in some way on LE? Or that the info on it is inaccurate/incomplete, thus doing more harm than good?

 

[DianeElaine]

Nice find Rose, its interesting that Eva would save all the gifts from the wedding shower. It makes me think that she probably saved much more on her. I would think there would be some paperwork on the PI?

Other thoughts: If Sylvia had needed her glasses for reading, would she have also needed them to watch a movie in a theater, could that be why she even had her glasses with her that night?
Also it's nice to see three guests on here today, feel free to join in.

BBM. I, too, find it interesting that Eva saved the shower gifts, as well as calling MMQC about it. To me, Eva's behavior is consistent with being in a state of denial--convinced that SL would eventually come home--b/c the other option was unthinkable. I have so much respect for SL, Eva and the rest of the family. They lived very low-risk life styles, and had every reason to expect they could live their lives without becoming victims of a horrendous and mysterious disappearance such as SL's.

 

[Odyssey]

Friday or Saturday I called 718-667-2211, (I think I wrote that number down from the Namus page) I asked to speak to someone from the cold case squad, they gave me another number to call 646-610-6910, I spoke with a female and left a message, I had wanted to know if any one had done an age progression sketch of her. She took my name and number. I mentioned that Sylvia was listed on Namus. I have not received a call back yet.

If you end up talking to someone, it might not be a bad idea to ask about the reward. Maybe tell them that you heard it's been offered but haven't seen any publicity on it.

I honestly forgot about the reward until now, what happened with that?

Jmoose, did that come up at all in your conversation?

 

[alliemay]

If you end up talking to someone, it might not be a bad idea to ask about the reward. Maybe tell them that you heard it's been offered but haven't seen any publicity on it.

I honestly forgot about the reward until now, what happened with that?

Jmoose, did that come up at all in your conversation?

I also forgot about the reward, but since there was no talk about it after the initial conversation, there would be no reason for me to mention it. Mostly I was interested in knowing if they did an age progression sketch of her and if I felt whoever I was talking to was receptive I would be inclined to talk about more things where Sylvia was concerned.

 

[Jmoose]

If you end up talking to someone, it might not be a bad idea to ask about the reward. Maybe tell them that you heard it's been offered but haven't seen any publicity on it.

I honestly forgot about the reward until now, what happened with that?

Jmoose, did that come up at all in your conversation?[/QUOTE]

Yes it did-there was some issue with how this could be offered; as far as I know, it's not as uncomplicated as it seems-there are some specific legal issues (not like offering a reward for a returned pet). When you offer a reward, it essentially becomes a legally binding agreement, and so I think this is the status at the moment-just sorting out that stuff. You have to word it carefully and can't leave it open ended, and I think the offer usually is executed through LE, too.

 

[Jmoose]

I also forgot about the reward, but since there was no talk about it after the initial conversation, there would be no reason for me to mention it. Mostly I was interested in knowing if they did an age progression sketch of her and if I felt whoever I was talking to was receptive I would be inclined to talk about more things where Sylvia was concerned.

When they do these age-progression sketches, how is it done? Do they take the original photo, along with ones from her family members at essentially the same she would currently be?

 

[alliemay]

When they do these age-progression sketches, how is it done? Do they take the original photo, along with ones from her family members at essentially the same she would currently be?

I'm not sure how they do the sketches, but I have noticed age progression sketches on other cold cases and find it interesting that they are able to do that kind of thing.

 

[alliemay]

If you end up talking to someone, it might not be a bad idea to ask about the reward. Maybe tell them that you heard it's been offered but haven't seen any publicity on it.

I honestly forgot about the reward until now, what happened with that?

Jmoose, did that come up at all in your conversation?

Opps think I read your post wrong, sorry. Thought it read that you thought it would be a bad idea. I must be getting tired.

Hopefully they will call back, if not I'll try again.

 

[Odyssey]

A somewhat silly sounding idea that just went through my head:

I wish I had a pair of 1970's glasses (made of glass) so I could throw them against my dash and see if they break. I'd totally do it, too.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

BBM. I, too, find it interesting that Eva saved the shower gifts, as well as calling MMQC about it. To me, Eva's behavior is consistent with being in a state of denial--convinced that SL would eventually come home--b/c the other option was unthinkable. I have so much respect for SL, Eva and the rest of the family. They lived very low-risk life styles, and had every reason to expect they could live their lives without becoming victims of a horrendous and mysterious disappearance such as SL's.

Hi, DE -- Welcome to the thread. :seeya:

Re the part BBM, from where we sit, I think that this is a crap shoot. I can certainly see how this could happen ... how the mind could protect you from this kind of thinking ... but I'm not sure denial is forever. As a mother, I can see myself being unable to "buy" death in the early period after a disappearance (I can't even bring myself to put "my daughter" in front of that word). I can even see myself choosing hope later on. But I can't see not going to the dark place. I think I would go there from day 1 -- first as a horrifying possibility, later as a more likely one.

Also, I think one thing we can't ignore is that EL was at the center of her daughter's life. She knew who she was. In so many of the MP cases I read about, one or more family members forms a definitive idea of what they think happened, and in many cases they end up being right. Not all. But enough to make me think their perceptions are a potential lead. JMO

I am not sure what EL's perceptions could be pointing to. I don't necessarily think they mean SL ran away and is alive somewhere. They may just be a beacon that says: "Nothing in my daughter's life accounts for this." and "This is the only person besides me who would know." One thing I personally find interesting about these perceptions is that EL does not show up on MMQC's doorstep saying "I think her BF/F did her harm."

MOO

 

[Jmoose]

Hi, DE -- Welcome to the thread. :seeya:

Re the part BBM, from where we sit, I think that this is a crap shoot. I can certainly see how this could happen ... how the mind could protect you from this kind of thinking ... but I'm not sure denial is forever. As a mother, I can see myself being unable to "buy" death in the early period after a disappearance (I can't even bring myself to put "my daughter" in front of that word). I can even see myself choosing hope later on. But I can't see not going to the dark place. I think I would go there from day 1 -- first as a horrifying possibility, later as a more likely one.

Also, I think one thing we can't ignore is that EL was at the center of her daughter's life. She knew who she was. In so many of the MP cases I read about, one or more family members forms a definitive idea of what they think happened, and in many cases they end up being right. Not all. But enough to make me think their perceptions are a potential lead. JMO

I am not sure what EL's perceptions could be pointing to. I don't necessarily think they mean SL ran away and is alive somewhere. They may just be a beacon that says: "Nothing in my daughter's life accounts for this." and "This is the only person besides me who would know." One thing I personally find interesting about these perceptions is that EL does not show up on MMQC's doorstep saying "I think her BF/F did her harm."

MOO

BBM-I think this is how I see EL's apparent assumption that her daughter was alive for all of those years-that nothing in the safe, secure life Sylvia was living could have put her in harm's way, and so she must be alive. I think she actually knew, though, pretty quickly, that it wasn't likely, as indicated by what she said to MMQC on the day of her wedding.

 

[DianeElaine]

Hi, DE -- Welcome to the thread. :seeya:

Re the part BBM, from where we sit, I think that this is a crap shoot. I can certainly see how this could happen ... how the mind could protect you from this kind of thinking ... but I'm not sure denial is forever. As a mother, I can see myself being unable to "buy" death in the early period after a disappearance (I can't even bring myself to put "my daughter" in front of that word). I can even see myself choosing hope later on. But I can't see not going to the dark place. I think I would go there from day 1 -- first as a horrifying possibility, later as a more likely one.

Also, I think one thing we can't ignore is that EL was at the center of her daughter's life. She knew who she was. In so many of the MP cases I read about, one or more family members forms a definitive idea of what they think happened, and in many cases they end up being right. Not all. But enough to make me think their perceptions are a potential lead. JMO

I am not sure what EL's perceptions could be pointing to. I don't necessarily think they mean SL ran away and is alive somewhere. They may just be a beacon that says: "Nothing in my daughter's life accounts for this." and "This is the only person besides me who would know." One thing I personally find interesting about these perceptions is that EL does not show up on MMQC's doorstep saying "I think her BF/F did her harm."

MOO

Hello, GoingByMyGut. :highfive:

BBM: What a particularly elegant way of putting it! You nailed it.

 

[rosemadderlake]

It has been observed that EL was a strong female. –And, I think she was at the center of all the pieces left behind; SL’s father who must have thought he was the reason she disappeared, and a younger brother eclipsed by a tragedy too big to comprehend. SL’s best childhood girlfriend left with a loss so huge, yet not exempt from the scrutiny of SL’s family.

I agree with GBMG’s words, EL knew who Sylvia was. -She went to Wagner to look for Sylvia. There is a missing piece, or someone, in here somewhere. If she had her suspicions she was not sharing them. But, if a prevailing, fundamental fear for her daughter’s life at the hands of her fiancé was known from day one, I do believe this strong mother would not have backed away in silence from it. On some level I think she believed the BF/F was telling the truth. (imo)

The BF/F holds the key for sure, as did his parents, extended family, as do the friends who knew the both of them. If he and Sylvia were happy and in love, engaged to be married, what reason on earth would there be to want her dead? What were the clues? Did he fool everyone? The rumored ring; does he display that like a trophy with his friends after his fiancé disappears, or having killed her, or covering up an accident? How does he know it would all play out as it did? -How?

And LE, if there was a cover up; would the 1975 PR ever have been released in its current state? Wouldn’t a cover-up include something that supports the fiancé’s story? Was there any indication in 1975 that Sylvia would leave for a reason, and was that remote possibility conveyed to LE thereby classifying her as not endangered, and of her own free will? And now, in 2013 is there any hope of knowing what other LE documents are “not accessible” to the public? Have we assisted or hindered the possibility of ever finding out? Have we lost our objectivity?

As SL’s anniversary date approaches I think of where her bones may be and how that dark reality must be no different from day one. Sylvia was a beautiful woman and there is vulnerability in young beauty. I am hopeful because there are many more voices advocating for Sylvia, and as her day passes just maybe that someone with that seemingly insignificant or very significant piece will remember Sylvia Lwowski, and see their way clear to come forward.

Her day, that will pass again, and mark another year missing will never be easier than the last. But I know there is an ever widening circle of many who will still be here the day afterwards…

 

[Odyssey]

And LE, if there was a cover up; would the 1975 PR ever have been released in its current state? Wouldn’t a cover-up include something that supports the fiancé’s story? Was there any indication in 1975 that Sylvia would leave for a reason, and was that remote possibility conveyed to LE thereby classifying her as not endangered, and of her own free will? And now, in 2013 is there any hope of knowing what other LE documents are “not accessible” to the public? Have we assisted or hindered the possibility of ever finding out? Have we lost our objectivity?

I don't think we've assisted or hindered the possibility of finding out, because *nothing* was being done for the 30ish years prior to this thread developing, so I think Sylvia's case would have continued to sit in a file gathering dust had we not come along. I'm sure there are some who would have preferred it that way, but this isn't about them, it's about Sylvia.

And I don't think we've lost our objectivity, I think we just run out of things to be objective about. We continue on, though, with whatever far-fetched theories or pure guesswork comes to our mind, and because of that, we are 3 threads and thousands of posts later, and most of us are still here posting regularly. That speaks volumes, in my opinion, considering that we started out with nothing but a pair of glasses and an argument.

 

[Jmoose]

I don't think we've assisted or hindered the possibility of finding out, because *nothing* was being done for the 30ish years prior to this thread developing, so I think Sylvia's case would have continued to sit in a file gathering dust had we not come along. I'm sure there are some who would have preferred it that way, but this isn't about them, it's about Sylvia.

And I don't think we've lost our objectivity, I think we just run out of things to be objective about. We continue on, though, with whatever far-fetched theories or pure guesswork comes to our mind, and because of that, we are 3 threads and thousands of posts later, and most of us are still here posting regularly. That speaks volumes, in my opinion, considering that we started out with nothing but a pair of glasses and an argument.

BBM-I don't think we've lost our objectivity, and as a matter of fact, have been able to remain civil (well, the rest of you have!), in spite of our differences of opinion. Most other threads really degenerate in the face of dissent. We are going to need some more information to maintain a regular presence here-I wish there was some way to find her-that, in my opinion, would go a long way to finding out who harmed her, if, in fact, she was harmed by someone else. If the reporter from the Staten Island Advance writes her article, there may be more soon.

 

[Odyssey]

BBM-I don't think we've lost our objectivity, and as a matter of fact, have been able to remain civil (well, the rest of you have!), in spite of our differences of opinion. Most other threads really degenerate in the face of dissent. We are going to need some more information to maintain a regular presence here-I wish there was some way to find her-that, in my opinion, would go a long way to finding out who harmed her, if, in fact, she was harmed by someone else. If the reporter from the Staten Island Advance writes her article, there may be more soon.

bbm - I can't recall if I mentioned this before (pretty sure I did, if so my apologies for repeating) but in spite of the lack of investigation/publicity, one good thing is that an annual search is done on Staten Island for the Rand victims... I think it is mostly in the Willowbrook area but that wasn't too far from where she went missing. I think that increases the chances of her being found.