NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #4

[GoingByMyGut]

Original post TBM:

Either she carried around her birth control pills in her handbag each time she left the home (I doubt that), or she was not on the pill. Had she stashed them in parents home, they would have eventually been discovered (had she not been carrying them around).

BBM1: This was the year I started college. Believe it or not, this is exactly what many women did. Whether BC pill or little pouch with diaphragm and cream (surprisingly popular option in the day), these "accessories" never left the purse.

BBM2: We still have no idea what was and wasn't discovered. Who would EL share this with and why? This points again to the holy grail of EL's records (sigh). IMO, only if EL kept a written record of it would the info travel from her to anyone else. I cannot see her sharing this personal information with anyone verbally. MOO

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Yes, when she started college she new what her path would be for the next four years, but after, when it was over, things were unclear. If no wedding date is set, do you continue to live with parents. Do you live on your own? With no job or license, living on your own would seem impossible. I often wonder why during her years at college she didn't have part time jobs. I could just imagine the confusion of not knowing where your path was going. Especially if you had doubts about a future marriage where there was not even a date set for that. Or doubts about your feelings of love for this person.

BBM1: I think MMQC said SL had her driver's license. Am I misremembering that?

BBM2: Since MMQC knew so little about SL's life at WC, I wonder if SL actually did pick up some work there. Bio students often had opportunities to participate in or monitor a prof.'s research for money. No long term commitments, no long hours ...

 

[Jmoose]

BBM1: I think MMQC said SL had her driver's license. Am I misremembering that?

BBM2: Since MMQC knew so little about SL's life at WC, I wonder if SL actually did pick up some work there. Bio students often had opportunities to participate in or monitor a prof.'s research for money. No long term commitments, no long hours ...

MMQC did say that, and when I spoke to her brother, I specifically asked about any subsequent evidence of driver license renewal and use of SS number. He said no, and did not correct me to say that she didn't have a license, so it looks like she did.

 

[alliemay]

Oh ok, I thought she only had a license to drive the scooter/ice cream truck.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Oh ok, I thought she only had a license to drive the scooter/ice cream truck.

Thread 2, Post 215, by MMQC:
"SL had her drivers license but used the family car when possible. I had my own so we were more independent on coming and going rather than depend on the logistics of borrowing the family car."

 

[alliemay]

Thanks

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Not sure this tells us much, but here's a Google map showing where PP is on SI today.

 

[epiphany]

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/nyc/our-history-14909.htm

snipped

1966

Planned Parenthood centers in Manhattan, the Bronx, Queens, and Brooklyn merge to become Planned Parenthood of New York City.

snipped; BBM

2010

PPNYC begins to offer much-needed reproductive health services in New York's underserved borough of Staten Island.

More here:

Staten Island Gets Reproductive Health:The Long Process of Establishing a Health Center

http://www.nycommunitytrust.org/Giv...GetsReproductiveHealth/tabid/701/Default.aspx

 

[GoingByMyGut]

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/nyc/our-history-14909.htm

snipped

1966

Planned Parenthood centers in Manhattan, the Bronx, Queens, and Brooklyn merge to become Planned Parenthood of New York City.

snipped; BBM

2010

PPNYC begins to offer much-needed reproductive health services in New York's underserved borough of Staten Island.

More here:

Staten Island Gets Reproductive Health:The Long Process of Establishing a Health Center

http://www.nycommunitytrust.org/Giv...GetsReproductiveHealth/tabid/701/Default.aspx

Thanks, Epiph! So where was this PP clinic they went to?

In the second article you linked to, I noticed this (BBM):
"In the meantime, however, there were young women eager to get services, so while planning was underway between September 2010 and 2011, Planned Parenthood stationed its mobile medical unit van in front of the storefront one day a week."

^^^ I remember these They were sometimes stationed near college campuses. Could they have had these on SI in prior years? The timeline does not say.

 

[epiphany]

Thanks, Epiph! So where was this PP clinic they went to?

In the second article you linked to, I noticed this (BBM):
"In the meantime, however, there were young women eager to get services, so while planning was underway between September 2010 and 2011, Planned Parenthood stationed its mobile medical unit van in front of the storefront one day a week."

^^^ I remember these They were sometimes stationed near college campuses. Could they have had these on SI in prior years? The timeline does not say.

No, not during SL time frame we're discussing. Look how long it took SI to get a mobile unit!

Termination would not have been on SI if used a PP/clinic.

 

[Jmoose]

Brooklyn, maybe? Would that be the closest PP center?

 

[epiphany]

Original post TBM:


BBM1: This was the year I started college. Believe it or not, this is exactly what many women did. Whether BC pill or little pouch with diaphragm and cream (surprisingly popular option in the day), these "accessories" never left the purse.

BBM2: We still have no idea what was and wasn't discovered. Who would EL share this with and why? This points again to the holy grail of EL's records (sigh). IMO, only if EL kept a written record of it would the info travel from her to anyone else. I cannot see her sharing this personal information with anyone verbally. MOO

I think unless on BC pill or had an IUD inserted after first time, she could very well have become pregnant again.

MO: Mother would not share any of the BC info if she did have it, or learned of it later.

She was engaged, 22 yo and went missing...believe Mom would have been asked at precinct about whether unplanned pregnancy was a possibility or not. MOO

 

[epiphany]

Brooklyn, maybe? Would that be the closest PP center?

Could be...depends on where the location in Brooklyn was...may have perceived as too gritty by her, and she opted for Manhattan.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Original posts TBM, BBM:

She was walking such a traditional, expected path ... maybe she was beginning to see that it might be nice to try something different first. I think 25 is SO young. Engaged at 24! She was just coming into herself. Day by day, I expect she would have just been learning who she was and what she really wanted. Anything is possible. JMO

She was engaged, 22 yo and went missing...believe Mom would have been asked at precinct about whether unplanned pregnancy was a possibility or not. MOO

Quoting you and myself to correct my earlier statement, Epiph -- I mix up the year and her age. You are right -- DOB = April 28, 1953. Even younger than I was thinking. Can you imagine?! Who knows what they want for the rest of their lives at 21/22?

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Okay, just reviewed some posts on the abortion discussion so I thought I'd include them here if you guys want to see them again too. These are not all of them, just the ones I looked back at today. All posts are by MMQC in response to various posters' Qs.

Thread 1, Post 1104

Thread 2, Post 8

Thread 2, Post 53

Thread 2, Post 774

Thread 2, Post 809

Thread 2, Post 810

Thread 2, Post 815

Thread 2, Post 822

 

[epiphany]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY NY - Sylvia Alice Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #2


snipped; BBM

3. I did not know him. He was an upper classman and joined the military. I don't know if she ever kept in touch with him. The day of the termination was to my knowledge the last time she saw him. Not to forget. It was a time for sexual exploration. Now what the women of the 70's went through in late teens early 20's kids today do at 12. I blush when I hear conversations of kids when they think no one is listening.


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY NY - Sylvia Alice Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #2


snipped; BBM

...What I do remember that afterward when seeing babies or small children she would well up with tears. Remember, my own brother lived on the other side of the duplex her parents lived in. When my niece was born she really had a hard time of it. AND that was in July of '75.

As some have noted, I believe this was a serious relationship. May have even still loved him. IMO, she's still hurting when she goes missing.

Not convinced SL did not remain in touch with Red.

 

[epiphany]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY NY - Sylvia Alice Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #2


snipped; BBM


I only went with her to the PP clinic. Let's call him Red, took her to the procedure. Now remember we're talking 40 years ago. I'm lucky that I remember it was a VW. He I think was slightly older, can't remember 100%.

Perhaps...PP Clinic was for pregnancy test, and a PP in another location/borough or an affiliated clinic performed the procedure. IOW, Not all PP Clinics may have performed terminations back then---unsure.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY NY - Sylvia Alice Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #2


snipped; BBM


I only went with her to the PP clinic. Let's call him Red, took her to the procedure. Now remember we're talking 40 years ago. I'm lucky that I remember it was a VW. He I think was slightly older, can't remember 100%.

Perhaps...PP Clinic was for pregnancy test (all PP clinics may not have performed terminations then---unsure), and a PP in another location/borough or an affiliated clinic performed the procedure.

I had a similar thought earlier today when I brought up the mobile clinics (which were really trailers, IIRC). So I emailed PP to ask if they were affiliated with any clinics on SI in 1975, used mobile clinics, worked in connection with any university clinics, etc. I don't suppose they'll answer quickly but when they do, I'll let you know what they say.

 

[epiphany]

Here's one ad (clinic located in Manhattan) in WC paper dated April 3, 1973:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY NY - Sylvia Alice Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #3


On p 11/12 left hand side:

http://wagnerian.omeka.net/items/show/2498

 

[rosemadderlake]

-Thinking back to the 1975 Wagner College student video that Skeet posted (thread #2 ?) with all its crazy “Marks Brothers” energy, set to Whipping Post, and back to those times when college kids broke through all kinds of conventional life,

Was she visiting Wagner that summer, keeping in touch with her class? Was there a communal coffee house where students met?

I thought it was telling that Sylvia would take her engagement ring off at home, (maybe left it at home sometimes) and almost lost it once in her father’s tab container… I get the impression that her BFF is not particularly well liked, by some, back in 1975. –He is not at her party.

Maybe the pool party was a fun time, kids reveling, and her father joins the fun, and totally upstages her. -Her reaction gives visual evidence and witnesses.

Did she isolate after the party? Did people fade away after the party? What were the post party conversations that following week, and just days before she went missing?

It would be really helpful to hear from someone in the pool party group…