NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #4

[alliemay]

http://yonkers.yalwa.com/ID_120301227/Pathmark-Port-Richmond.html

There is a Pathmark on Forest Avenue. so I would think he lived somewhere around there?

 

[GoingByMyGut]

http://thisbigcity.net/forgotten-staten-island-a-photo-essay/
"But we’re also the setting of some interesting and disturbing movies you can watch on Netflix: Combat Shock, about a Vietnam vet trying to reintegrate into society, and Cropsey, about a child kidnapper and murderer. Speaking of Cropsey, my mother clearly remembers Andre Rand riding his bike, as we played in front of our house as young children, on his trips back and forth to the Pathmark supermarket."

Looks like the writer grew up in Port Richmond.

BBM: Cool. I watched Cropsey. Was there only one Pathmark on SI? I remember this as a period of expansion for them. During the same period, there were two within a couple of miles of each other on the same road (Amboy Ave.) on the other side of the Outerbridge -- one in Perth Amboy and one in Edison, IIRC.

 

[alliemay]

Yes I wonder how long he had the VW? I think it was when Alice went missing in 1972, the South Shore apartment would have been Tyson's Lane, where he worked as a maintenance worker? Not sure.

 

[alliemay]

BBM: Cool. I watched Cropsey. Was there only one Pathmark on SI? I remember this as a period of expansion for them. During the same period, there were two within a couple of miles of each other on the same road (Amboy Ave.) on the other side of the Outerbridge -- one in Perth Amboy and one in Edison, IIRC.

I'm sure there was more but don't know all the locations.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

http://yonkers.yalwa.com/ID_120301227/Pathmark-Port-Richmond.html

There is a Pathmark on Forest Avenue. so I would think he lived somewhere around there?

According to this, there are five on SI today (I typed in "Staten Island, NY"):

2875 RICHMOND AVE.
STATEN ISLAND, NY 10314

3501 AMBOY RD.
STATEN ISLAND, NY 10308

1351 FOREST AVE.
STATEN ISLAND, NY 10302

2660 HYLAN BLVD
STATEN ISLAND, NY 10306

2730 ARTHUR KILL RD.
STATEN ISLAND, NY 10309

 

[alliemay]

Wow that's a lot, I was trying to get the one closest to where the writer of this article lived. If the writer grew up in Port Richmond I think several of them could be a possibility.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Wow that's a lot, I was trying to get the one closest to where the writer of this article lived. If the writer grew up in Port Richmond I think several of them could be a possibility.

Yeah, hard to know. We could dig deeper for opening dates, I guess, if a history is included on the individual store websites, but I'm off to a lunch meeting.

Once again, work gets in the way of WS ...

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Okay, one last post before I leave

The Murderpedia site is overwhelming ... so much info on Rand, but in collected and reposted articles, not sorted. It says (BBM):

"Between 1966 and '68, using the last name "Bruchette," he worked as a physical therapy aide at New York's Willowbrook State School - later renamed the Staten Island Development Center."

AND

"Andre Rand, a 58-year-old drifter and sex offender, is serving 25 years to life for kidnapping 12-year-old Jennifer Schweiger, whose nude body was found in 1987 in a shallow grave near Rand's campsite on the abandoned grounds of the Willowbrook state mental facility."

That says to me that Rand established the woods around Willowbrook and the Greenway as his hunting grounds as early as 1966, and that he was still using them more than 20 years later. He's definitely in the frame, IMO.

 

[alliemay]

http://www.falconers-voice.com/?p=6728#sthash.49KICSB2.dpbs

This is from last year, law students studying Rand, the article says that Rand may have had an help from someone else with his crimes, someone he met underground in the tunnels. Interesting.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Yes I wonder how long he had the VW? I think it was when Alice went missing in 1972, the South Shore apartment would have been Tyson's Lane, where he worked as a maintenance worker? Not sure.

I really don't understand Google Maps, but I'm trying. Look at this. If it works, it should show Goodall St., Tysens Lane, and South Beach. Tysens Lane is about halfway between South Beach and SL's home.

I also dropped a pin in Willowbrook Park (IOW, where the state facility was), and one where I think K-Mart Plaza was (but I'm guessing). IMO, Rand made SI his playground. I think it would be interesting to make a list of the places he is presumed to have abducted various children from and add them to the map.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

http://www.falconers-voice.com/?p=6728#sthash.49KICSB2.dpbs

This is from last year, law students studying Rand, the article says that Rand may have had an help from someone else with his crimes, someone he met underground in the tunnels. Interesting.

Wow, quite an intense presentation for high school students. Check out this quote by one of the cops who worked the Rand case and gave the presentation (BBM, and MTHS = "Monroe Township High School"):

“[Living at Willowbrook]…it gave [Rand] such a knowledge of this place. I mean, I’ve been there, those buildings are a complex, maybe three times the size of [MTHS]. All of the buildings were connected by underground tunnels… It’s our opinion that he had the little girl [Schweiger] down there, but there was no way the average cop even knew there were tunnels down there,” says Sergeant Scrivanni. “We couldn’t find anyone that worked at the place, no one we could interview! We had to discover this stuff on our own.”

BBM: I'm a little surprised at this, since it was a state facility. Presumably all of the building plans would have had to be approved at a high level. Wouldn't there be an architectural map of the tunnels somewhere? And when they made the park, what happened to the tunnels? Were they excavated? Doubtful. Filled in? Were they ever fully searched? If LE never got a handle the tunnel system (and wouldn't these guys know that?), I'm guessing NOT. That blows my mind, frankly.

These tunnel systems were commonplace at big hospitals and other care institutions. I believe the thinking was that in an emergency, or bad weather, doctors could still get to their patients. My daughter went to an old medical school in Baltimore, and one of her first worries was that she wouldn't get snow days because they use the tunnels in bad weather! (Great priorities, honey ) Of course, these are some pretty nice tunnels. I went through one of them with her once. It connected the hospital to her first-year apartment building. It felt a bit like a subway to me.

These old places fascinate me, but at the moment I'm floored to think that Rand's primary stomping grounds may not have been completely searched for the remains of victims.

 

[alliemay]

Yes there were several buildings with this type of tunnel structure. I don't have the right notes in front of me but I think Seaview Hospital was one of them, which is also near the area. Not sure but another one might have been the Farm Colony. I am going to say that Rand was probably around some of the places that Sylvia frequented, in the time period of 1972 to 1975.

 

[alliemay]

Has anyone heard from Rose or Epi, missing their opinions.

 

[Jmoose]

I was wondering where Rose and Epi were, too-and I am missing Dushi

 

[Odyssey]

According to this, there are five on SI today (I typed in "Staten Island, NY"):

2875 RICHMOND AVE.
STATEN ISLAND, NY 10314

3501 AMBOY RD.
STATEN ISLAND, NY 10308

1351 FOREST AVE.
STATEN ISLAND, NY 10302

2660 HYLAN BLVD
STATEN ISLAND, NY 10306

2730 ARTHUR KILL RD.
STATEN ISLAND, NY 10309

The one on Richmond Ave was definitely there then, that's the one we used to shop at. It was not far from the movie theater/mall.

 

[rosemadderlake]

My WS Peeps!

Here is a link to the abandoned & little known airfields of Staten Island.
http://www.airfields-freeman.com/NY/Airfields_NY_NY_StatenI.htm

I am of the opinion that we need some more memories of Sylvia Lwowski, of that summer of 1975, her life at Wagner & from friends who saw her before she went missing.

I think Skeet’s question a few posts back is a good one--what if she ran into someone she knew that night who drove her to a destination and then found out she disappeared, and said nothing all these years but had nothing to do with her actual disappearance –throwing everyone off course. I find that to be perhaps a greater possibility than meeting up with Rand on a Saturday night on Staten Island.

We know she was a good swimmer. If she ran from the car, was she a good runner? I wonder what the argument was about that night. I wonder why she was described as depressed on the PR. -I wonder if she had a miscarriage. –And, I wonder if he has the ring…

 

[Odyssey]

If she ran from the car, was she a good runner? I wonder what the argument was about that night.

Respectfully snipped...

This is another thing that has never really sat right with me. Did she literally run?

I wouldn't run if I was upset... or depressed... or mad...

I'd run if I was scared.

ETA: Also, if she ran, can we assume it was only to the bus stop, as that's where MMQC was told she would be?

 

[rosemadderlake]

Respectfully snipped...

This is another thing that has never really sat right with me. Did she literally run?

I wouldn't run if I was upset... or depressed... or mad...

I'd run if I was scared.

ETA: Also, if she ran, can we assume it was only to the bus stop, as that's where MMQC was told she would be?

Bbm: If she told her BFF she would take the bus home, and that's what he told her GF, and I assume her parents as well, that night - then yes, maybe she ran to the bus stop. I wonder if the description of events is an exact quote from the source or a recollection? -Run from car in traffic, stop sign, red light? And I wonder how that compares to what her BFF may have told told LE, friends, family?

Going to her GF's house first tells me that perhaps the argument was a big one. Is the missing piece a break-up?

 

[Odyssey]

Bbm: If she told her BFF she would take the bus home, and that's what he told her GF, and I assume her parents as well, that night - then yes, maybe she ran to the bus stop. I wonder if the description of events is an exact quote from the source or a recollection? -Run from car in traffic, stop sign, red light? And I wonder how that compares to what her BFF may have told told LE, friends, family?

Going to her GF's house first tells me that perhaps the argument was a big one. Is the missing piece a break-up?

Of course this is just the image in my mind, but I picture a physical altercation, or a threat of physical harm. Something that scared her and made her run. Something that likely caused her glasses to come off.

One of the VI's referenced him hitting his mom so I think that is kind of playing into my thoughts. We also were told that she kicked her dad.

I still am not convinced that they ever went to the movies or that she ran from the car though. Not saying it didn't happen, just that I'm skeptical.

 

[rosemadderlake]

I think the incident with SL & her father and the hearsay with the BFF & his mother makes me think of a potential volatility factor with these two - but what I have not heard about are any previous physical fights or altercations between SL & her BFF. We were also told she was happy & in love.

We know there are a couple of versions of the eye glasses story (one version having been retracted from the CP & another out there on the video) and yet on the PR it says glasses left in car. So, I guess I am skeptical about the media.