NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #4

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  • #581
Not yet-but I have the world access (although tempting to purchase, it isn't as helpful as they lead you to believe). I don't have time this week, I don't think-but will try to find something as quickly as I can. What was Eva's maiden name again?

Good luck. Czerlinski. The name itself is rare. I have found that, with the exception of public records, "good" information comes from families who create trees and configure their settings to public access.
 
  • #582
Good luck. Czerlinski. The name itself is rare. I have found that, with the exception of public records, "good" information comes from families who create trees and configure their settings to public access.

I think I did this search a while back, and you are right-that is where the best info comes from. Let me see what I can do (before my subscription ends in August-not renewing at this time).
 
  • #583
There was a Gunter Czerlinski (born April 1924, it looks like) on a list of German Jews killed between 1933 and 1945. It was a list pertaining to Kristalnacht and was said to be very incomplete. This list had only one Czerlinski on it. I wonder if he was related to Eva? That's all I could find in the last couple of minutes.
 
  • #584
  • #585
I just went to another site-same Gunter Czerlinski went to Auschwitz. He is "verschollen", which is "missing and presumed dead". I'm wondering who else from the family ended up in Auschwitz, assuming this is a relative of Eva's. Maybe then it might be a little easier to figure out Eva's early life-would this have any bearing on Sylvia's disappearance?
 
  • #586
Czerlinski would be the paternal side of the family. I wonder what EL's mother's maiden name was? Did Sylvia know of no relatives on her Mom's side of the family?
 
  • #587
Just one thought re the BBM: At that time, California was a very common destination for runaways and dreamers. Southern CA in particular was still wild in areas, and the coast would have been a marine-biology lover's dream. In 1977, my BF at the time and I loaded up a van with our belongings and moved to San Diego. For me, this was part of five years I killed between my first year of college and going back later on. In San Diego I was a prep cook in a fish market on the harbor. Every morning I had coffee at dawn sitting alone on a dock while a resident harbor seal swam around me. I was in awe of the people who trained dolphins at SeaWorld and the San Diego zoo. I lived dirt cheap a half block from the ocean, in Ocean Beach, which was very "alternative" at the time -- very young, bicycles being the main mode of transportation, lots of smoothie stands and falafel bars. For me, CA didn't turn out to be my forever home, but it was a huge draw. I am curious to see where this UID goes. I don't think it would be a stretch -- theoretically anyway.

Bbm – I love this image. Sounds so Zen. How great it must have been to live there for a while before the Dot.Com and Hollywood explosion doubled the population in CA.

I spent a month in CA in 1980. I didn’t want to leave “bird and seal rock” in Point Lobos! Camped on the beach in San Simeon and at night could hear the seals snoring nearby!

http://pointlobos.org/nature/ocean-and-shoreline/marine-mammals/southern-sea-otters

– California was a big destination for young kids in the ‘70’s. -The raw beauty and bigness of the coast was so spectacular. I could have easily lived there. What are the chances Sylvia had a connection to CA? She surely would have known about the marine-bio hubs from Wagner.

It definitely looks like it didn’t end well for the CA UID, and there is not that much information about her. I wonder if the general public can just call the coroner’s office. (?) -Has anyone done that?
 
  • #588
Rose-I've never heard of anyone doing that (calling coroner's office)-do we all just assume that they wouldn't tell us anything?
 
  • #589
Czerlinski would be the paternal side of the family. I wonder what EL's mother's maiden name was? Did Sylvia know of no relatives on her Mom's side of the family?

I wonder if it's possible to find out by internet searching? We'd likely be guessing, as I am about Günter Czerlinski (I think he could be Eva's brother, older by 3 years). And if Eva is his sister, they are East Prussian, which could create some problems in terms of accessing information from that time. Part of East Prussia was given to Poland after the war, but part of it became an "oblast" of Russia, and there, all of the civil records were destroyed, and re-populated with Russians (I know this because my great-grandfather was from Konigsberg, which is now called Kaliningrad).

Wondering also if we're chasing our tails with this part of it, too-and maybe overcomplicating what happened to Sylvia. I wish DeerHunter would come back, but I understand why he doesn't.
 
  • #590
Czerlinski would be the paternal side of the family. I wonder what EL's mother's maiden name was? Did Sylvia know of no relatives on her Mom's side of the family?

BBM: Good question ... Czerlinski would get us to EL's birth family, but EL's mother's maiden name could point to cousins.
 
  • #591
There was a Gunter Czerlinski (born April 1924, it looks like) on a list of German Jews killed between 1933 and 1945. It was a list pertaining to Kristalnacht and was said to be very incomplete. This list had only one Czerlinski on it. I wonder if he was related to Eva? That's all I could find in the last couple of minutes.

Nice work. This is a name I haven't seen. There is a Paul-Gunter on the genealogy lists I circulated to all of you some months back ("Altenamen" for Czerlinski was the name of the page -- anyone want to venture a guess of what that means? family? other names/members?), but there are no dates attached to the name. Since JL Sr. enlisted in 1942, that date range would sync with the unknown events that left EF family-less.
 
  • #592
Bbm – I love this image. Sounds so Zen. How great it must have been to live there for a while before the Dot.Com and Hollywood explosion doubled the population in CA.

I spent a month in CA in 1980. I didn’t want to leave “bird and seal rock” in Point Lobos! Camped on the beach in San Simeon and at night could hear the seals snoring nearby!

http://pointlobos.org/nature/ocean-and-shoreline/marine-mammals/southern-sea-otters

– California was a big destination for young kids in the ‘70’s. -The raw beauty and bigness of the coast was so spectacular. I could have easily lived there. What are the chances Sylvia had a connection to CA? She surely would have known about the marine-bio hubs from Wagner.

It definitely looks like it didn’t end well for the CA UID, and there is not that much information about her. I wonder if the general public can just call the coroner’s office. (?) -Has anyone done that?

BBM1: I could go OT with you in so many directions on this. I love being where the wild things are :)

BBM2: I don't think she needed one to go. I didn't have one. This kind of quest was a legacy of the 60s, IMO.

BBM3: I have read posts in other threads where certain people did just that -- reached out, usu. by email, directly to the coroner. In some cases, it was the coroner who was most motivated to ID a UID. I don't think it could hurt to try. JMO
 
  • #593
I wonder if it's possible to find out by internet searching? We'd likely be guessing, as I am about Günter Czerlinski (I think he could be Eva's brother, older by 3 years). And if Eva is his sister, they are East Prussian, which could create some problems in terms of accessing information from that time. Part of East Prussia was given to Poland after the war, but part of it became an "oblast" of Russia, and there, all of the civil records were destroyed, and re-populated with Russians (I know this because my great-grandfather was from Konigsberg, which is now called Kaliningrad).

Wondering also if we're chasing our tails with this part of it, too-and maybe overcomplicating what happened to Sylvia. I wish DeerHunter would come back, but I understand why he doesn't.

BBM1: Or cousin?

BBM2: JL Jr. seemed very sure that her family was ethnic Polish living in Germany. (And wow, your command of geography and history is impressive!)

BBM3: I suspect so. But why stop now? (LOL.) I think the chances of finding a connection that makes a difference to the case are slim to none -- MOO -- but it won't stop me from exploring the possibilities from time to time.
 
  • #594
Nice work. This is a name I haven't seen. There is a Paul-Gunter on the genealogy lists I circulated to all of you some months back ("Altenamen" for Czerlinski was the name of the page -- anyone want to venture a guess of what that means? family? other names/members?), but there are no dates attached to the name. Since JL Sr. enlisted in 1942, that date range would sync with the unknown events that left EF family-less.

It literally means "old name". What's the context?
 
  • #595
  • #596
Slightly O/T-has anybody heard of a book called "The Skeleton Crew" by Deborah Halber? It's about civilians who try to match unidentified bodies with missing people-the release date is July 1st. I just saw a blurb about it in the most recent Discover magazine.
 
  • #597
I wonder if it's possible to find out by internet searching? We'd likely be guessing, as I am about Günter Czerlinski (I think he could be Eva's brother, older by 3 years). And if Eva is his sister, they are East Prussian, which could create some problems in terms of accessing information from that time. Part of East Prussia was given to Poland after the war, but part of it became an "oblast" of Russia, and there, all of the civil records were destroyed, and re-populated with Russians (I know this because my great-grandfather was from Konigsberg, which is now called Kaliningrad).

Wondering also if we're chasing our tails with this part of it, too-and maybe overcomplicating what happened to Sylvia. I wish DeerHunter would come back, but I understand why he doesn't.

Bbm – I don’t think so. My feeling about Sylvia’s brother’s statement that EL’s family was killed in WWII Germany is that there is no discussion available on this subject, of personal family experience of the Holocaust, on a public forum. I can certainly understand why. –But still, very little is known about Sylvia’s relatives on both sides of the family, and I think it is not a stretch to wonder why….

In light of the fact that we know Sylvia was in turmoil with both her family (fight with father), and BFF (fight with and disappearance from) I’d say it is not inconceivable that there could be an (X-factor), whether it is an extended family member, or someone from Wagner College, or something completely random. (imo)

In my own turbulent times during my early 20’s, I had a dearly beloved Grandfather who was willing to help me change my world, if that is what I needed to do. He understood the meltdown that happened to my family (his son’s, my father’s meltdown in particular). Our connection was something that couldn’t be articulated at the time, not until I was older and realized what a gift it was– it was felt in my 20’s and not understood fully until my 40’s. - That connection continues to be a force for good in my psyche – I was special in the midst of circumstances that had nothing to do with me but effected me profoundly. He passed away in the late 90’s – but his voice, words, and huge spirit are forever a beacon of strength. --So, was there someone in Sylvia’s life who would have been a conduit for change? -Maybe… imo…

In Sylvia’s disappearance, from what I gather, and especially in light of the images posted recently, it makes me think her family could have been “in the dark” about perhaps some other areas and connections in her life. There is the “what we do not know factor” about her state of mind and relationships.

One thing I know, if there were big doubts, she may not have shared them with those closest to her. If someone else was an ally, or more, she may not have shared that with anyone!

Why both parties (BFF and family) can’t get together and pool their resources, revisit Sylvia with all the hindsight that time can provide is almost as much of a mystery as her disappearance. Unfortunately, even if BFF had nothing to do with her disappearance, times are so litigious that (that in of itself) may prevent the key piece from being discovered. –So sad! …imo…

The emotions expressed in the broken, cut out photos from the past tells me more about her brother’s feelings at the time Sylvia disappeared. I think he needed to “say it” however he could (even if in a public way) because it was so obviously suppressed all these years. After the initial shock of the images, I can really understand why – I am 100% behind his feeling of loss and sorrow, but still, it may not have anything to do with Sylvia’s disappearance. …imo…
 
  • #598
Rose-I've never heard of anyone doing that (calling coroner's office)-do we all just assume that they wouldn't tell us anything?

BBM3: I have read posts in other threads where certain people did just that -- reached out, usu. by email, directly to the coroner. In some cases, it was the coroner who was most motivated to ID a UID. I don't think it could hurt to try. JMO

Thanks for the input!

Calling a coroner is not an everyday thing, for sure.... I have never done it - and yes, I would assume they would not give out info to just anybody. GBMG -it is good to hear there are others who have done just that, though...

There is an email for the NamUs regional Admin. A phone # for UID Case Mgr. There is only a number for the coroner's office on this UID. No email on the LA Coroner's website.

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/4457
http://coroner.co.la.ca.us/lacoronr.htm#Identification

So, I think I'll give it until next week - follow up with Kim first, but if I do not hear back - I am thinking maybe I'll start with a call to the NamUs UP case Mgr. (they are familiar with Websleuths) and both UP & MP are listed on NamUs...
 
  • #599
Slightly O/T-has anybody heard of a book called "The Skeleton Crew" by Deborah Halber? It's about civilians who try to match unidentified bodies with missing people-the release date is July 1st. I just saw a blurb about it in the most recent Discover magazine.

Thank for posting this - jmoose

Here's her Facebook page where I see Websleuths mentioned...!

https://www.facebook.com/DeborahHalberAuthor
 
  • #600
I've spent the entire weekend reading all four threads on Sylvia and all I can say is wow.

In my opinion it seems like such an open and shut case. I have no understanding of how a young woman with so much to live for could just disappear and the police do nothing at the time! Well, nothing resulting in evidence, locations, etc. I don't get it.

The WS's are these threads are impressive. High-fives to all.

I'll be thinking of various avenues and hopefully I will have something to contribute after absorbing all the info I learned after reading each and every post about Sylvia.
 
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