NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #4

[Jmoose]

Yes, It is really strange that her disappearance wasn't quickly attributed to him. I wonder if it's because they don't have a strong sense that this is the case-and if they do publically state that they think Rand could be responsible, it might come back as a possible defense for a different person in a trial.

 

[Jmoose]

One of the biggest things I still struggle with is that Sylvia's disappearance was never attributed to Rand.

Everyone I know of that went missing from SI during that time (except Brenda Crowley who was known to have run away) was mentioned in connection to Rand by LE and/or the media. At first I thought Rand's presumed victims were all children, until I saw that he'd been linked to Ethel Atwell and Shin Lee, both adults.

I truly believe that if LE really had no solid theory on what happened to her, she would have at least been mentioned as a possible Rand victim.

When Rand was finally caught in the late 1980s, I don't think the "No publicity" notation would have stopped them from mentioning her, because Rand was big news.

I think they had to have strongly believed something else happened that had nothing to do with Rand.

JMO

BBM-I totally agree with this.

 

[Jmoose]

I still have a really strong feeling that the "no publicity" was prompted by Det. Lennon at 122 precinct-as he may have thought she'd return quickly and this would keep her from being publically embarrassed, and even more angry with her family. My police captain friend told my sister one time not to report her friend missing unless she was certain that something had happened to him-because if he was ok, and the police located him first, her friend was going to be pissed if everyone knew that she reported him missing. The friend was fine, by the way) I can't get this out of my head, as far as Sylvia's missing person report goes. It may not be true; it might have gone the opposite way, with Sylvia's folks urging the police not to publically state that she was missing-her brother, I think, doesn't know how this went

 

[alliemay]

It's hard for me to separate "depressed" and "no publicity" in my mind. If my daughter had showed signs of stress and was depressed, and I used that term when being interviewed by LE, I would feel that if she returned she would be upset for splashing her face everywhere. I truly believe that her mother thought she ran away. She hired a PI not to just follow the boyfriend but the friend. By having the PI follow the friend this indicates to me that she felt Sylvia ran away and her friend knew where she was. My thinking leans more towards the mother saying no publicity. She knew something was not going right in Sylvia's life, look at the events leading up to this.

 

[rosemadderlake]

BBM-This was a question to her brother, and I urged him to start going through the parents' papers, if he hadn't already. I am sure this must have been very difficult, and it seems as if he may have done it, because he added the new photos after we spoke. I don't know if he came across the information about the PI or not, but to me it seems likely that there were some notes or documents related to the PI-it would surprise me very much if the Lwowskis didn't keep something. Hiring a new PI at this time is an interesting idea. This might be more helpful if she is still alive somewhere, and less so if she isn't, in my opinion. I wonder if a new PI would be able to speak with the BF/F? I think that MMQC might be inclined to speak to a new PI, if LE doesn't want to talk to her. Personally, I'd like to see a billboard erected with a big picture of Sylvia on it-with an age progression. I know they're expensive, but-what other options are there?

Bbm: No idea, but if BFF is not willing to, maybe a 2014 reason as to "why not" would be helpful.

Bbm: I like wrapped transit buses myself. The message loops around the area… -Expensive space for a fleeting message and image usually purchased by large corporations & health care companies.


Considering there were number of people who saw Sylvia in the week before she disappeared and IF these contacts were never pursued by Sylvia’s family, or the 1975 PI – a new investigator might make some inroads at Wagner College, and with her sorority. -Her 40th college reunion is next May-June. Time is of the essence in tracking people down who knew her-- imo. Wonder who is still around from her neighborhood and around town?

Sylvia’s printable PDF flyer on NamUs (reports section) has her new picture with the purple sweater. It’s got all the basic info. That color photo that might work very well for an age progression. -But with or without an age progression I would target a distribution to those who knew her. Can one use it and purchase a well-sized ad space in the local publications; Wagner Alumni Mag. and the college and high school papers, SI Advance? All of these publications are online and people are all over the world. Cast a neutral net and see what comes back...

-As with all the possibilities that have been put forth here on her thread, and effort to keep her on the radar, maybe a penny will drop out there somewhere..

Sylvia Lwowski
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/7574/34

 

[Odyssey]

Yes, It is really strange that her disappearance wasn't quickly attributed to him. I wonder if it's because they don't have a strong sense that this is the case-and if they do publically state that they think Rand could be responsible, it might come back as a possible defense for a different person in a trial.

The way I recall it, nobody was actually talking about Rand by name until after Jennifer Schweiger was found - I was no longer on Staten Island at that time.

The main thing I remember was when Holly Hughes went missing in 1981, and Tiahease Jackson in 1983. For awhile after each of those, everyone was on edge, and we were being warned to walk in groups, etc. But nobody was saying Rand, it was "The Bogeyman". I don't think people knew who he was, just that there was someone kidnapping girls.

After Schweiger, they caught Rand and seemed to go back and look at all the other missing people - Alice Pereira, Holly Hughes, Henry Gafforio, Tiahease Jackson, Audrey Nerenberg (from Brooklyn), Ethel Atwell, and Shin Lee were all mentioned. It almost seems like someone didn't want Sylvia's case mentioned at all.

Or, it's possible that the media did not get any input from LE, and were relying on cases that had previously been publicized. This, unfortunately, would not have included Sylvia's.

 

[rosemadderlake]

The way I recall it, nobody was actually talking about Rand by name until after Jennifer Schweiger was found - I was no longer on Staten Island at that time.

The main thing I remember was when Holly Hughes went missing in 1981, and Tiahease Jackson in 1983. For awhile after each of those, everyone was on edge, and we were being warned to walk in groups, etc. But nobody was saying Rand, it was "The Bogeyman". I don't think people knew who he was, just that there was someone kidnapping girls.

After Schweiger, they caught Rand and seemed to go back and look at all the other missing people - Alice Pereira, Holly Hughes, Henry Gafforio, Tiahease Jackson, Audrey Nerenberg (from Brooklyn), Ethel Atwell, and Shin Lee were all mentioned. It almost seems like someone didn't want Sylvia's case mentioned at all.

Or, it's possible that the media did not get any input from LE, and were relying on cases that had previously been publicized. This, unfortunately, would not have included Sylvia's.

Bbm: This seems very likely. imo

Bringing forward Rand timeline for reference.

NY-Missing-children-on-Staten-Island-Post #10
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-on-Staten-Island-1980s&p=6939353#post6939353

Here is a rough Andre Rand Timeline

(*Please note the red highlights are the crimes he has not been convicted of but fit is MO, Victim type, Hunting ground or He has tentatively been linked to the victim)

March 1944 - Born Frank Rushan in Manhattan, grew up in Ithaca, N.Y
Early 1960s - Served in the Army
1966 and ’68 - New York’s Willowbrook State School
May 5 1969 - South Bronx, NY - 9-year-old Bronx girl into his car and drove her to a vacant lot. He removed his clothes and hers, but a passing police car interrupted the crime. Charged with attempted rape, Rand pleaded guilty to sexual abuse
Jan 1972 – sentenced to four years. He served 16 months – after release changes name to Andre Rand
July 10, 1972 - South Beach, Staten Island - Alice Pereira
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/p/pereia_alice.html
Aug 11 1973 - Syracuse, Onondaga County, NY - Rosemary E. Hamilton Buck
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/..._rosemary.html
June 24 1974 – Lumberton, Burlington, NJ – Margaret Fox
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/f/fox_margaret.html
April 7 1975 – New Lisbon, Burlington, NJ – Steven Anderson & David Williams
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...on_steven.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...ams_david.html
Oct 6 1976 – NYC, NY –Cesilia Pena
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/p/pena_cesilia.html
July 5 1977 – Brooklyn, NY – Audrey Lyn Nerenberg
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...rg_audrey.html
1978 – Ethel Atwell – (Suspect in the rape and murder of Shin Lee, both woman Willowbrook aides)
March 9 1979 - Westampton Township, NJ - Lorraine Rea Herbster
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/..._lorraine.html
1979 - Accused of raping a young woman & a 15-yr girl, neither pressed charges.
July 1981 –NYC, NY– Holly Ann Hughes
1981 - offered a 9-year-old girl a lollipop and tried to entice her to ride in his Volkswagen. When she refused his offer, Rand followed her to her home and searched for her while she hid under a rug. No charges were filed.
January 9 1983 - West Brighton, Staten Island – 11 Children in van to Newark, NJ- charged with unlawful imprisonment and served 10 months in jail. (No mention of when 10 months were served)
Aug. 14 1983 - Staten Island - Tiahease Jackson
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/..._tiahease.html
June 9 1984 – Staten Island – Henry Gafforio
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...rio_henry.html
July 1 1984 – Amherst NY, Nancy Jo Scamurra
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...rra_nancy.html
July 9, 1987 – Westerleigh, Staten Island - Jennifer Schweizer

 

[Jmoose]

It's hard for me to separate "depressed" and "no publicity" in my mind. If my daughter had showed signs of stress and was depressed, and I used that term when being interviewed by LE, I would feel that if she returned she would be upset for splashing her face everywhere. I truly believe that her mother thought she ran away. She hired a PI not to just follow the boyfriend but the friend. By having the PI follow the friend this indicates to me that she felt Sylvia ran away and her friend knew where she was. My thinking leans more towards the mother saying no publicity. She knew something was not going right in Sylvia's life, look at the events leading up to this.

I keep returning to this, too, and wonder if EL hired the PI to follow BF/F and MMQC because it was the only thing she had any control over. And I wonder why she had him followed if she thought Sylvia ran away? Did she think he was hiding her, or visiting her someplace? She certainly had her friend followed for that reason, but why would she think the boyfriend with whom she just supposedly had a fight, would help get her away from her family, when all he had to do was marry her to get her out of there. I think the Lwowskis had no idea what happened, hoped she was a runaway, and did the only thing they could do at the time-and left the rest of it to the police. I wish we had more to go on than what Sylvia's teenaged brother remembers, and what MMQC knew-it just isn't enough to be sure which direction to focus.

 

[Jmoose]

I really like the idea of hiring a new PI. I can't understand why there isn't anything to do at this point, whether it's hiring a new PI, or some publicity now. Too bad the Staten Island Advance article last September didn't turn anything up.

 

[alliemay]

My first thought would be, "I'll hire a PI and have my daughter's friend followed because after a fight with her father this is where she took off to, BUT just in case her boyfriend did something, I'll have him followed also."

I would think, because of the "no publicity" these options would have been the only two to choose from after driving around looking for her. If I remember right, it wasn't until two weeks later that the PI was hired. I really wonder what stories Sylvia's mother was hearing in that two week period.

We have all done a lot of searching on the internet. I would like to see an age progression done. I would also like to know if her brother has access to her medical and dental records. Since her father was military I would think those records where kept longer than those of maybe a family doctor who is probably long gone now.

 

[Jmoose]

It feels like we're back at the beginning again-I am still surprised that EL thought, for so long, that MMQC knew where Sylvia was; remarkable that BF/F could have been easier to trust than her closest friend. We have assumed that the PI spoke directly to BF/F, based on the "information" that he told 3 different stories to 3 different people about how and where she jumped out of the car. Do we know if the PI spoke directly to MMQC, too? I can't remember-where is Epiphany? She always knows this stuff

 

[Jmoose]

My first thought would be, "I'll hire a PI and have my daughter's friend followed because after a fight with her fathers this is where she took off to, BUT just in case her boyfriend did something, I'll have him followed also."

I would think, because of the "no publicity" these options would have been the only two to choose from after driving around looking for her. If I remember right, it wasn't until two weeks later that the PI was hired. I really wonder what stories Sylvia's mother was hearing in that two week period.

We have all done a lot of searching on the internet. I would like to see an age progression done. I would also like to know if her brother has access to her medical and dental records. Since her father was military I would think those records where kept longer than those of maybe a family doctor who is probably long gone now.

Me, too-there must have been some stories, even with no publicity. She must have had at least one conversation with BF/F after the night Sylvia disappeared-there isn't a force of nature out there that could keep the mother of a missing girl from attempting to talk to the man she was with last, and no way for him to avoid at least a short talk with her. And we know she spoke to MMQC a number of times.

 

[alliemay]

I don't think MMQC ever said if the PI asked her any questions. All I remember her saying is that her Dad talked to the Assistant DA, she never relayed to us what the ADA found out. I'm sure if they got the ADA involved, he wouldn't just investigate and not tell them the outcome of that investigation. So why even tell us the ADA was involved and not follow up with the rest of the story?

On the subject of her classmates, below is some of the people she graduated high school with:

http://tottenvillehighschoolalumni.com/class-of-1971.html

 

[Jmoose]

I don't think MMQC ever said if the PI asked her any questions. All I remember her saying is that her Dad talked to the Assistant DA, she never relayed to us what the ADA found out. I'm sure if they got the ADA involved, he wouldn't just investigate and not tell them the outcome of that investigation. So why even tell us the ADA was involved and not follow up with the rest of the story?

On the subject of her classmates, below is some of the people she graduated high school with:

http://tottenvillehighschoolalumni.com/class-of-1971.html

BBM1-I wonder if the ADA spoke, not to MMQC, but only to her father? People were so weird in those days still, as far as what they'd expose their daughters to. What if the ADA told MMQC's father that Sylvia was likely dead, either by murder or suicide-but that they didn't know for sure, and it didn't make sense to either upset MMQC, or involve her, when they had no idea for sure.

BBM2-I wonder if any of the classmates listed in the link you provided, lived near the Lwowski family, and knew them well?

 

[alliemay]

I was thinking more about how kids are placed in homerooms based on what their last name starts with. I remember till this day a boy I had a crush on who sat in front of me in homeroom for several years in a row. Years later I would look up his name to see if I could find him and what happened in his life. I have sent e-mails to two people, hoping I get a response. I have talked to one who knew her a while back, but she didn't know her that well. Just that she was a nice person and quiet. Did anyone ever find a list of Wagner grads? I wrote down the names of the ones she was in the band with and sent out several e-mails but nothing panned out from that.

 

[Jmoose]

Skeet-that is dedication! What a great idea-you just never know what might come of this. I don't believe anybody's got a list of Wagner grads, and that is unfortunate, since there might be something to tell there. What sorority did she belong to-maybe it could be easier to find something out that way?

 

[alliemay]

I can't remember now, thought I think I found a site dedicated to it but I don't remember it helped in finding more info about her. If we could get a list of the people in her sorority maybe that would help.

 

[rosemadderlake]

I keep returning to this, too, and wonder if EL hired the PI to follow BF/F and MMQC because it was the only thing she had any control over. And I wonder why she had him followed if she thought Sylvia ran away? Did she think he was hiding her, or visiting her someplace? She certainly had her friend followed for that reason, but why would she think the boyfriend with whom she just supposedly had a fight, would help get her away from her family, when all he had to do was marry her to get her out of there. I think the Lwowskis had no idea what happened, hoped she was a runaway, and did the only thing they could do at the time-and left the rest of it to the police. I wish we had more to go on than what Sylvia's teenaged brother remembers, and what MMQC knew-it just isn't enough to be sure which direction to focus.

I really like the idea of hiring a new PI. I can't understand why there isn't anything to do at this point, whether it's hiring a new PI, or some publicity now. Too bad the Staten Island Advance article last September didn't turn anything up.

It feels like we're back at the beginning again-I am still surprised that EL thought, for so long, that MMQC knew where Sylvia was; remarkable that BF/F could have been easier to trust than her closest friend. We have assumed that the PI spoke directly to BF/F, based on the "information" that he told 3 different stories to 3 different people about how and where she jumped out of the car. Do we know if the PI spoke directly to MMQC, too? I can't remember-where is Epiphany? She always knows this stuff

I just figured out multi-quote!

Bbm: Hopefully LE has more to go on. I don't think her brother wants to blow it by say too much to us WS peeps...
Bbm: A new PI could really be a third party advocate for her brother.
Bbm: Yes, because we are back at the beginning! But, with some good hindsight now, a year and a half later... imo.

IIRC: 1975 PI spoke to BFF and got one version, LE and family got other versions - Sylvia got out at a stop light, in traffic, and theater parking lot? MMQC did not know she was followed until later and I don't think she knew about the PI.

 

[Jmoose]

I can't remember now, thought I think I found a site dedicated to it but I don't remember it helped in finding more info about her. If we could get a list of the people in her sorority maybe that would help.

I was thinking of contacting the head of the national sorority, to see if she could notify members that Sylvia went to school with-might be more effective

 

[alliemay]

That would be a good idea, would you try that for us?