NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #4

[rosemadderlake]

I'm not sure if it's just that these times could be very different from 1975, but I've lately been following a case (Shane Montgomery). This missing person is a 21 year old college student who disappeared Thanksgiving Eve, and from day 1, there was all kinds of publicity, FBI came in, searches were made by lots of professionals, etc. This family wanted, and got, lots of attention for their son-it's remarkable what this family's been able to do. I don't know if this would have been possible back in 1975, because it just isn't how LE handled missing person reports, but it seems to me that Sylvia's remains would or could have been found by now if they had some assistance by LE right after she disappeared. I am surprised that the Montgomery family was able to get LE to even consider asking for camera footage from local businesses, since he is an adult-hardly any younger than Sylvia was when she disappeared (I realize that in 1975, businesses rarely had cameras-not like now).

Bbm: I saw this development on the news last night - seeing the pictures of the canal and river --it was like a Déjà vu of the Sarah Majoras case. - I think business surveillance cameras are now a modern tool being utilized in missing person cases like this. -In Sarah's case I always wondered if there was any footage of her captured along the canal - but LE got many surrounding businesses to look at their footage which is how they pinpointed the general search location.

There were no surveillance cameras in '75 when Sylvia went missing (maybe closed circuit at the SI Mall-I don't know) -but one thing I have wondered is - there are allegedly "three versions" of where Sylvia got out of the car according to her brother, but which one was told that night to her parents? Where exactly did the BF/F say she exited the car (told that night). And which way did she go?

 

[alliemay]

I printed out the police report last night and went crazy trying to find out what the P D code of 082 means in box 36. Still don't know. At the bottom of the report are the letters T/P/O that means time/place/occurrence. Didn't know that before. Eva had to have known Sylvia was depressed for them to put that on the report. If you think about it, I have two daughters, unless they were depressed prior to their evening date, I would not know to put that on a report. I would not have known there was a fight between my daughter and her BF/F unless he told me. I would be guessing I would have but angry if asked knowing about the fight. But depressed on the report to me means a lot. Eva knew her daughter. There has to be more than just this page in her file.

 

[Jmoose]

I do wonder if Eva truly meant clinically depressed. That would be significant, I think. But I can't help feeling like the desk officer taking the report steered (or just maybe led) the Lwowskis while taking the report. There is no good reason for me to say this; I just feel it-and maybe it's simply that, since Sylvia's body has never been found, I don't think she committed suicide. At least, not on Staten Island.

 

[alliemay]

I was not thinking clinically depressed, just sad, maybe she confided in Eva while she was getting ready for her date. Maybe she was planning on calling off the engagement Eva didn't use the term nervous, or worried, or scared, or excited, depressed and sad go hand in hand sometimes, Sylvia was agitated earlier in the day while shopping, they were running later than expected and she wanted to get home to get ready for the date, or was she nervous because she had to tell him something, but when she was dropped off to get ready she became sad over the whole thing. I think Eva knew her daughter was sad/depressed.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Perhaps, that's why Sylvia was reacting emotionally shortly before her disappearance in July 1975 when MMQC's niece was born.

Additionally, BFF stated BF/F told her on a phone call that he had been duped, PR states SL was "depressed (prob from EL)," "No publicity" was requested by EL, SL had been sexually active and pregnant prior to BF/F, we have heard more than once that she turned men's heads, could melt men with her smile, had a great figure and had not been on the BC pill even after the earlier termination.

Is it possible that she had or was moving on to another lover, or committed an indiscretion and got caught, had to come clean, simply wanted out of the engagement or became suicidal seeing no way out?

Bbm - I'll add - something happened in that week before she disappeared (imo). There was the fight with her father, BF/F not at party, not talking to her father, and perhaps not anyone. -Anxious that day - and then fight with BF/F.

Depressed is not a stretch - in fact, she could have acted very impulsively that night - which makes me feel very worried about what she might have done, or what might have happened to her.

 

[Jmoose]

From what I understand, suicide in young people (teenagers) can come with very little aforethought, because they tend to be impulsive, by virtue of a not-fully-cooked brain. I am less sure that this is true in someone of Sylvia's age, though, unless that person is emotionally immature. We don't know if this was the case with Sylvia, but it did appear that she was exhibiting some impulsive behavior around the time of her disappearance. And of course clinical depression can bring other factors into play in a person who is not impulsive. I don't know what to think about this possibility-especially since she's never been found. I just can't dismiss thinking that if she did kill herself, she'd have been found by now. Logically, I realize that it's very possible to kill yourself and not be found-but Staten Island is a relatively small place and I think she would have been by now. Will we ever know?

 

[rosemadderlake]

– It looks like they are pushing forward to develop SI’s Farm Colony. I wonder how abandoned it was in the 70’s when it was closed. Was it abandoned for a long time and formally closed in the 70’s? Did kids go exploring there? –Hang out there? There are 46 acres and a burying ground, called “The Acre of Mystery” in the 1986 evaluation. Staten Island, while small, has this incredibly diverse landscape -–Wonder if LE has conducted searches in these woods for other cases?

Redevelopment of Staten Island's Farm Colony Moves Forward: Nov 3, 2014

“The abandoned New York City Farm Colony on Staten Island is one step closer to being brought back to life. Last Tuesday, the Landmarks Preservation Commission unanimously backed a proposal to transform the 45-acre campus that was once a poor farm into 350 units of senior housing plus some retail. Called Landmark Colony, the development will bring life back to a crumbling site that has sat vacant for more than four decades”.

http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2014/..._staten_islands_farm_colony_moves_forward.php

Waiting for Someone, Anyone to Buy The Farm Colony

“The institution was closed in the 1970s and a portion of the property was designated an historic district, but it has been mostly neglected since then.”

http://ny.curbed.com/tags/new-york-city-farm-colony

The New York City Farm Colony
Historical & Archelogical
Sensitivity Evaluation - 1986

THE POTTER'S FIELD
--Page 17. The "Acre of Mystery” is the “home for the burying ground on the Poor House Farm. A great many unknown persons are buried there”
(Davis 1903:86).

http://s-media.nyc.gov/agencies/lpc/arch_reports/688.pdf

 

[Jmoose]

– It looks like they are pushing forward to develop SI’s Farm Colony. I wonder how abandoned it was in the 70’s when it was closed. Was it abandoned for a long time and formally closed in the 70’s? Did kids go exploring there? –Hang out there? There are 46 acres and a burying ground, called “The Acre of Mystery” in the 1986 evaluation. Staten Island, while small, has this incredibly diverse landscape -–Wonder if LE has conducted searches in these woods for other cases?

I keep hoping, with increased development of vacant and forested areas on Staten Island, that Sylvia's remains will be found, regardless of how she came to disappear. I know it's really very unlikely at this point that she'll be found if she committed suicide, and even less likely if she was killed and hidden by somebody else. There are a lot of missing person cases that I'd like an answer to (actually all of them), but finally finding out what happened to Sylvia would make me happy.

 

[Jmoose]

Rose-how close to either Sylvia's house or the Kmart plaza is this abandoned farm colony campus-do you know?

 

[rosemadderlake]

Rose-how close to either Sylvia's house or the Kmart plaza is this abandoned farm colony campus-do you know?

It is not far from her house, about 3-4 miles. -the southern end borders on La Tourette park - to the west is College of SI - Here is link to map.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/New...3629742e!2m2!1d-74.137943!2d40.594514!1m0!3e2


Oh I hope they don't develop SI any more - but this location would be a nice spot for senior housing and it looks like the woods would be preserved. It dosen't look like any of the existing ruins can be saved though, (cost twice as much as starting over) so, if they raze the buildings, they may treat it more like an archeological job because of the history, as opposed to standard development "mow down & replace". I don't know - I hope so.



There is a lot of Greenbelt activity - and dedicated environmental activists, too. They are needed (imo) or else there would be no green space left! Chapin Woods is another spot they are seeking to preserve permanently.

Staten Island scouts work to shore up pond in Chapin Woods

http://www.silive.com/northshore/index.ssf/2012/03/scouts_work_to_shore_up_pond_i.html

 

[rosemadderlake]

I keep hoping, with increased development of vacant and forested areas on Staten Island, that Sylvia's remains will be found, regardless of how she came to disappear. I know it's really very unlikely at this point that she'll be found if she committed suicide, and even less likely if she was killed and hidden by somebody else. There are a lot of missing person cases that I'd like an answer to (actually all of them), but finally finding out what happened to Sylvia would make me happy.

Bbm: Yes - we hear the stories - MOB/Construction (stories about LE in the 70's), MOB/landfill, serial killers/abandoned sites. And, I know this was mentioned but there was so much construction on SI in the 80's that it is too sad to even think about who may be lost and buried forever. Then there are the stories about the potters fields, I was reading about mishaps at the coroners -bodies being sent to the wrong place, schools, cremated by mistake etc...

I go back and forth in my feeling about what may have happened her - but the farm colony caught my attention because if it was completely abandoned back then - might be a perfect hiding place with so little activity.

We are so in need of more information -

 

[alliemay]

Hoping they find something, even if it's related to Rand's victims.

 

[rosemadderlake]

--Came across a real estate site with all kinds of info about SI. At The SI Mall, it looks like there were more than several options for buses and destinations. I am thinking the transportation is close to the same as when it opened in ’73. I do wonder if “The Crossings @ SI Mall” existed in 1975? These restaurants would have been open Saturday night and after the movie theaters closed.

- I am guessing the Mall was busy on a Saturday night in 1975. Really wish we knew if she headed back in that direction. Even though it is said that Sylvia said she would take the bus home, I have to think her mom would have asked the Q; where exactly did Sylvia get out of the car?

Staten Island may be small but it is home to half of all the nature preserves in NYC. There are 13 pages (!) of parks & preserves (second link). Growing up on SI, I am sure Sylvia had to be familiar with some of these lesser known places. -And I wonder which were the ’meeting place’ hubs? -Near Wagner? -Near Great Kills park, or the beach, or marina? I know exactly where these places are in my hometown area.

The Staten Island Mall: Staten Island Shopping Mecca

The Crossings at Staten Island Mall refers to the portion of stores located behind the Mall. This section has a few more places to eat, such as Carrabba's Italian Grill, Outback Steakhouse and Panera Bread. Aside from eating, however, there are many other stores, such as Pet Company and Babies R Us
.
Second to the St. George Ferry Terminal, the Staten Island Mall is the largest transportation hub on Staten Island. There are five buses whose last stops are at the Staten Island Mall. Two of them, the s44 and s61, both travel to the St. George Ferry Terminal. The other three buses are the s55, which comes from Rossville; the s56, which comes from Huguenot; and the s79, which comes from Bay Ridge, Brooklyn. Another local bus that passes by the Mall is the s59, which leaves Port Richmond to get to Tottenville. The x17 and x31 express buses also pass by the Staten Island Mall to get to the Goethals Bridge and into Manhattan. The x31 goes to Midtown Manhattan, while the x17 will go to either Lower Manhattan or Midtown Manhattan, depending on the time and the day.

http://www.realestatesiny.com/blog/the-staten-island-mall-staten-island-shopping-mecca.html

Staten Island Parks

There are currently fifty-one Forever Wild Nature Preserves in New York City. Of these sites, twenty-four are located on Staten Island. The significance of a Forever Wild Nature Preserve is stated in its title-it is a nature preserve.

http://www.realestatesiny.com/blog/staten-island-parks/

 

[alliemay]

Looking at the police report it says, "Last Seen AT" K-Mart Plaza Richmond A. so if we had a map of how the stop signs/traffic lights were set up in 1975, near K-Mart Plaza that might help pin point a location.

 

[rosemadderlake]

The K-Mart Plaza is pretty big - which end? North, south, east, or west? -I just think it would have been one of my first questions to her BF/F - where exactly did Sylvia exit the car? Where did EL go first when she looked for Sylvia? These are just some details that are left out of the input on this thread. And I understand there are 3 versions of "where" that was stated, but which one was told to EL? And what else? Did she run in a certain direction? Or, stand there and wait for him to drive off? I guess I want people to pony up and point to the exact location on a map!

:gaah:

 

[rosemadderlake]

Very mysterious story --I don’t think this woman is Sylvia, but she has a full set of teeth and is estimated over 50 when she died.
I’m thinking why not to do an age progression on SL? She would be 60 today.

Public's help needed to identify remains; sketch released
http://www.timesonline.com/news/loc...cle_e99d0564-8a26-11e4-ba99-3b381b1b2077.html

“The remains were found Dec. 12 in the area of Mason and Conway-Wallrose roads. Economy Police Chief Michael O’Brien said the area where the discovery was made is wooded and not heavily traveled.
The woman's head had been embalmed, and investigators have not been able to determine when she died.
The remains have been examined by Beaver County Coroner Teri Tatalovich-Rossi, pathologist Dr. James Smith, forensic anthropologist Dr. Dennis Dirkmaat from Mercyhurst College and forensic odontologist Dr. Charles Beall. They believe the woman was older than 50. She had soft curls of grayish hair and a full set of teeth”.

 

[Jmoose]

Very mysterious story --I don’t think this woman is Sylvia, but she has a full set of teeth and is estimated over 50 when she died.
I’m thinking why not to do an age progression on SL? She would be 60 today.

I think we talked about an age-progression a while back; who does them, and how does a person make that happen?

 

[rosemadderlake]

-Good questions. I just sent an email to Kim at NamUs with a link to the sketch -maybe they want to compare b/c of Sylvia's perfect teeth?

-And, I asked about if an age progression would be considered - or difficult to request one (?), etc. I don't know who initiates something like that, but with a 40 year span since she's been missing - it sure would be interesting and helpful to see an interpretation of age on her.

 

[alliemay]

Wish we had a 1975 map showing traffic patterns and lights near the plaza with the movie theatre.

 

[rosemadderlake]

-Good questions. I just sent an email to Kim at NamUs with a link to the sketch -maybe they want to compare b/c of Sylvia's perfect teeth?

-And, I asked about if an age progression would be considered - or difficult to request one (?), etc. I don't know who initiates something like that, but with a 40 year span since she's been missing - it sure would be interesting and helpful to see an interpretation of age on her.

BBMS -quoting myself - and here is response from NamUs this morning.

"... it is possible to get age progression done, but we need a few things to do it. First images of Sylvia at the age she disappeared. NAMUS seems to have a number of images, if you know her age when the photos were taken that would be a big help. Then we need images of female relatives, her mother or sisters, images at the age Sylvia was (22) and images at age she would be (60). Images of her mother are the best, sisters next, a maternal aunt maybe. Let me know if those things are available.


I will look into the info on the PA unidentified."

ETA: So, what age is Sylvia in the various photos? I think the engagement photo is her at 22, and that photo came from the B&W sorority proof sheet set of photos added this year.
And, the big Q - are there any pictures of EL in her 20s & at 60 +/-?

I hope her brother will consider submitting photos of EL to NamUs if they are available.