SOLVED NY - Tala Farea, 16, Rotana Farea, 22, Hudson River, 24 Oct 2018- COD released: suicide/drowning

[bears10]

bbm
Good points.
The autopsy should indicate if they drowned or were deceased before they went into the water. If they were deceased before they were in the river, that would make it look like foul play for sure, IMO. I hope we will get those details soon.
We'll have to wait and see how tight-lipped LE is. They may not want a perpetrator -- if there is one -- to know what they found. If so, we'll be waiting some more. But we're pretty good at waiting, aren't we? We don't like it, but we know how to do it...<sigh>

LE has stated they believe the girls were alive when they went into the water.

 

[borndem]

Authorities probing immigrant Saudi sisters’ mystery deaths

[...]

As of Tuesday, investigators still hadn’t determined how they died. The sisters’ bodies were taped together and facing each other, but had no obvious signs of trauma, police said. They were both fully clothed.

Their mother told detectives the day before the bodies were discovered, she received a call from an official at the Saudi Arabian Embassy, ordering the family to leave the U.S. because her daughters had applied for political asylum, New York police said Tuesday.

Saudi Arabia’s Consulate General in New York said in a statement that it had “appointed an attorney to follow the case closely.”

New York City police sent a detective to Virginia to learn more about the sisters. Chief of Detectives Dermot Shea said they were particularly interested in finding out what happened since they were reported missing and what led them to New York City.

[...]

Is this type of follow-up by a foreign gov't normal/usual? I have no idea what the normal protocol in a case like this would be. It scares me a bit.
And the NYPD sends a detective to VA. Spooky. I know absolutely nothing about this sort of thing.
Hoping someone on this thread will share some knowledge of how this works. The US/SA relationship had been running hot & cold just lately. Would that be part of it? Or is it standard procedure when asylum is requested?
Can a minor (in US terms) who asks for asylum be given it?
Arrrgghhh. I know so little about this stuff.

 

[bears10]

Do we know for sure those are even passport images? Because the pic of Tala sure doesn't look like a 12-13 yo-- she looks older than that. I don't know what the current pp photo update requirements are for Saudi citizens, or if those pics could be from some other kind of ID cards issued in the U.S. such as a student ID.

As far as why Tala was not wearing a head cover, and Rotana was, I have no idea. Would be helpful to know, as I posted earlier, whether they typically covered while living in Fairfax/ Alexandria, and whether or when they stopped covering.

As far as what I remember seeing while in KSA, it appears that somewhere around 9-10 years of age most of the little girls begin to cover. I saw many, many little girls in stores, etc. accompanied by fully covered females (probably moms, aunts, grandmas, older sisters, wearing abaya, and full face niqabs). These uncovered little girls were dressed to the nines in stores and malls, etc, fancy party dresses, glossy thick hair arranged beautifully, etc. As I recall, these were still "little" girls, not entering puberty. As I recall, all the girls appear to cover by the time they begin to develop breasts, or are about 5 feet tall. (I'm not an expert on this, though!)

Where I live now in the U.S. we have a huge population of muslim African immigrants, primarily Somalia and Ethiopia. From my observations, little girls here begin wearing a one piece "training hijab" around the age of 5, along with regular long sleeves, loose clothing, and dresses over pants. There are many, many teen girls who wear the traditional black flowing outer garment and head scarf, as well as some who don't, and just wear a hijab, and long lycra skirts with flowy blouses and long sleeve undershirts.

KSA is MUCH, MUCH stricter than what I see Somali and Ethiopian women wearing here. Many Saudi women wear the face veil, though I don't think it is "required" by the religious police in all areas of KSA. Just head cover and abaya. I had to cover my head in Riyadh, but not in coastal areas.

MSM said the pics are passport pics that’s why I said that. MSM also said these were the pics family “cooperated” with LE in giving which is weird. Why not give family photos. I know you’ll say that they are from SA and different than westerners. But it’s still strange to me. Anyway, Thank you for the info.

 

[borndem]

Sorry. I keep typing my thoughts this case and then I read a new article and change my mind about what I wrote. I don't know what happened here but it scares me. I hope LE finds out what really happened.

RIP Tala and Rotana

It scares me, too.

 

[borndem]

Do we know for sure those are even passport images? Because the pic of Tala sure doesn't look like a 12-13 yo-- she looks older than that. I don't know what the current pp photo update requirements are for Saudi citizens, or if those pics could be from some other kind of ID cards issued in the U.S. such as a student ID.

As far as why Tala was not wearing a head cover, and Rotana was, I have no idea. Would be helpful to know, as I posted earlier, whether they typically covered while living in Fairfax/ Alexandria, and whether or when they stopped covering.

As far as what I remember seeing while in KSA, it appears that somewhere around 9-10 years of age most of the little girls begin to cover. I saw many, many little girls in stores, etc. accompanied by fully covered females (probably moms, aunts, grandmas, older sisters, wearing abaya, and full face niqabs). These uncovered little girls were dressed to the nines in stores and malls, etc, fancy party dresses, glossy thick hair arranged beautifully, etc. As I recall, these were still "little" girls, not entering puberty. As I recall, all the girls appear to cover by the time they begin to develop breasts, or are about 5 feet tall. (I'm not an expert on this, though!)

Where I live now in the U.S. we have a huge population of muslim African immigrants, primarily Somalia and Ethiopia. From my observations, little girls here begin wearing a one piece "training hijab" around the age of 5, along with regular long sleeves, loose clothing, and dresses over pants. There are many, many teen girls who wear the traditional black flowing outer garment and head scarf, as well as some who don't, and just wear a hijab, and long lycra skirts with flowy blouses and long sleeve undershirts.

KSA is MUCH, MUCH stricter than what I see Somali and Ethiopian women wearing here. Many Saudi women wear the face veil, though I don't think it is "required" by the religious police in all areas of KSA. Just head cover and abaya. I had to cover my head in Riyadh, but not in coastal areas. But I am a western woman, and so had some different rules while there. I never, ever saw a Saudi woman with a bare head, or not wearing an abaya, while in KSA.

Thanks much for this info -- a big help.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Do we know what type of shelter the girls were in? For example, a women's shelter or a homeless shelter? I know there are organizations that specifically help women that are experiencing the threat of or actual honor violence. I'm wondering if the girls had reached out to such a group, if a shelter would have been found for them.

 

[kaen]

LE is apparently following their footsteps in part by credit card/atm activity. I am shocked the parents seemingly weren’t able to access the girls bank info on their own. That the girls (or at least one of them) had their own bank account. Where/how were they getting money?

I think the parents knew where they were. They were just not at home. One article said mom had had contact up to a week before they were found. I don't think the family was seeking to have them come home. Could this be nefarious or just how they wanted to handle it? We will soon know, I think.

 

[Alethea]

Detectives are using credit card info to track final days of dead Saudi sisters found duct-taped together in Riverside Park - NY Daily News

Despite earlier reports, Walzak said the two sisters had social media accounts, but hadn’t updated them for some time.

 

[kaen]

Do we know what type of shelter the girls were in? For example, a women's shelter or a homeless shelter? I know there are organizations that specifically help women that are experiencing the threat of or actual honor violence. I'm wondering if the girls had reached out to such a group, if a shelter would have been found for them.

Brand new shelter that opened 10/19/18 in Brooklyn, NY. Safe haven: City’s first shelter for Muslim women and children fleeing abuse opens in Southern Brooklyn

 

[madamx]

LE is apparently following their footsteps in part by credit card/atm activity. I am shocked the parents seemingly weren’t able to access the girls bank info on their own. That the girls (or at least one of them) had their own bank account. Where/how were they getting money?

Good Question! I have thought about this one for a while. For girls that ran away and no word of them working. They seem to be spending a lot.
(thank you Alethea for posting this link)
Detectives are using credit card info to track final days of dead Saudi sisters found duct-taped together in Riverside Park - NY Daily News

“Detectives are in New York City in the area of Manhattan, going to hotels, restaurants, boutiques, etc., trying to find additional electronic movements of their actions, video, eyewitness accounts and so forth,” Walzak said. Investigators are looking at credit card activity after Sept. 1 as well, he said.

 

[kaen]

LE is apparently following their footsteps in part by credit card/atm activity. I am shocked the parents seemingly weren’t able to access the girls bank info on their own. That the girls (or at least one of them) had their own bank account. Where/how were they getting money?

For the 22 yo, the parents would not have legal access to her accounts.

 

[borndem]

<modsnip>

Was the mother told that the whole family's residency was in jeopardy, or just her own? It seems to me that if one is applying for asylum, the first thing one might expect to happen is not that they would be sent back in to a potentially dangerous situation. Surely it would be investigated first.

Is anyone else accepting this as logical: the daughters applied for asylum, ergo, the whole family was ordered back to Saudi Arabia?

bbm
I think our (USA) logic and the logic of KSA are of two entirely worlds. A cultural thing -- it is what it is. We each see things differently. Culture, religion, societal norms, value of human life, family structure, human rights, source of governmental methodology and leadership -- all of it. Our countries are friendly towards each other, each for its own reasons. Lots of give and take and looking the other way.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Brand new shelter that opened 10/19/18 in Brooklyn, NY. Safe haven: City’s first shelter for Muslim women and children fleeing abuse opens in Southern Brooklyn

Thanks for the info. Just to clarify, your not saying the girls were in this shelter, just that it's a new shelter offering services to Muslim women and children correct?

 

[kaen]

Thanks for the info. Just to clarify, your not saying the girls were in this shelter, just that it's a new shelter offering services to Muslim women and children correct?

Correct. I have no idea where they were staying. But, it is interesting that this shelter opens around the time they died.

The shelter and its mission speaks to a need.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Correct. I have no idea where they were staying. But, it is interesting that this shelter opens around the time they died.

The shelter and its mission speaks to a need.

I'm happy to see that there are shelters available for this specific segment of our population due to the unique circumstances (and danger) these women are in.

 

[Elainera]

bbm
Good points.
The autopsy should indicate if they drowned or were deceased before they went into the water. If they were deceased before they were in the river, that would make it look like foul play for sure, IMO. I hope we will get those details soon.
We'll have to wait and see how tight-lipped LE is. They may not want a perpetrator -- if there is one -- to know what they found. If so, we'll be waiting some more. But we're pretty good at waiting, aren't we? We don't like it, but we know how to do it...<sigh>

LE announced yesterday that they were alive when they entered the water.

 

[Stragnet]

If it was a suicide, then the duct tape roll, and the scissors to cut them, should be found on the shore, or the tape roll should have still been attached to them. But I'm assuming they were duct taped together in another location and brought to the water and dropped in, which is why I don't buy the suicide theory.

May have been tossed in the water by the sisters.

 

[bears10]

I think the parents knew where they were. They were just not at home. One article said mom had had contact up to a week before they were found. I don't think the family was seeking to have them come home. Could this be nefarious or just how they wanted to handle it? We will soon know, I think.

Another article said she didn’t know where they were and last heard from them a month ago so who knows

 

[bears10]

For the 22 yo, the parents would not have legal access to her accounts.

Sure they would if they were also on the account. My husband and I have access to my 22 year old stepsons account bc we are also on it.

 

[bears10]

Thanks for the info. Just to clarify, your not saying the girls were in this shelter, just that it's a new shelter offering services to Muslim women and children correct?

The girls were in a shelter in VA so this can’t be it