NY NY - The Alphabet Killings, Rochester

[Megsleuths97]

Something I’ve been wanting to add to this forum for a while now is that Riga is usually called “Churchville-Chili” because that’s what the school district is named there.

As a native Rochestarian, I don’t think I’ve ever actually called that area Riga. Probably not a big detail but if that’s the only outlier for Carmen, then it might not be an outlier at all.

 

[ziggystarshay]

Something I’ve been wanting to add to this forum for a while now is that Riga is usually called “Churchville-Chili” because that’s what the school district is named there.

As a native Rochestarian, I don’t think I’ve ever actually called that area Riga. Probably not a big detail but if that’s the only outlier for Carmen, then it might not be an outlier at all.

It's great you brought this point up. I grew up similarly, with Fairport/Perinton being the same situation. Village of Fairport, town of Perinton: village of Churchville, town of Riga. And like you, everyone who grew up in Perinton just says they're from Fairport (because of the school district). But I didn't actually grow up in the VILLAGE of Fairport, I was in the greater Perinton area.

My issue with the Riga/Churchville variation when discussing the Double Initial killings, is that Carmen was always reported to have been found in Riga, which is true. The street her body was discovered on is technically in the greater Riga area, and not at all in the village of Churchville. But once Wanda and Michelle were abducted and then recovered from towns beginning with the same letter of their names, newspaper articles began to say Carmen was found in Churchville. It made it more compelling to see that THREE, instead of just two, cases could be potentially tied/related and carried out by one perpetrator.

 

[Megsleuths97]

It's great you brought this point up. I grew up similarly, with Fairport/Perinton being the same situation. Village of Fairport, town of Perinton: village of Churchville, town of Riga. And like you, everyone who grew up in Perinton just says they're from Fairport (because of the school district). But I didn't actually grow up in the VILLAGE of Fairport, I was in the greater Perinton area.

My issue with the Riga/Churchville variation when discussing the Double Initial killings, is that Carmen was always reported to have been found in Riga, which is true. The street her body was discovered on is technically in the greater Riga area, and not at all in the village of Churchville. But once Wanda and Michelle were abducted and then recovered from towns beginning with the same letter of their names, newspaper articles began to say Carmen was found in Churchville. It made it more compelling to see that THREE, instead of just two, cases could be potentially tied/related and carried out by one perpetrator.

Right! I know that it's technically Riga. What I'm trying to explain is that Riga is generally called "Churchville-Chili" and I've never heard someone even say that they're from Riga. Usually, people say Churchville, Chili, or a combination of both. Residents of Riga send their kids to Churchville-Chili school district. While she was far from Churchville, she was closer to Chili from what I understand in a gully along 490. Looking at a current map of 490, it's closer to both Churchville and Chili than it is Riga.


I know that the reports were maybe changed or worded to go along with a bigger story to tie into the other murders, but in my opinion it's not a big factor for me due to the fact that the entire Riga area is called something else by everyone who lives there, and around there. I guess it'd also have to come down to specifics as to which gully along 490, since there looks to be many different areas to fit that description along 490 between Churchville, Chili, and Riga.

 

[ziggystarshay]

Right! I know that it's technically Riga. What I'm trying to explain is that Riga is generally called "Churchville-Chili" and I've never heard someone even say that they're from Riga. Usually, people say Churchville, Chili, or a combination of both. Residents of Riga send their kids to Churchville-Chili school district. While she was far from Churchville, she was closer to Chili from what I understand in a gully along 490. Looking at a current map of 490, it's closer to both Churchville and Chili than it is Riga.


I know that the reports were maybe changed or worded to go along with a bigger story to tie into the other murders, but in my opinion it's not a big factor for me due to the fact that the entire Riga area is called something else by everyone who lives there, and around there. I guess it'd also have to come down to specifics as to which gully along 490, since there looks to be many different areas to fit that description along 490 between Churchville, Chili, and Riga.

No I totally know what you're saying. And same for me that everyone from Perinton says they're from Fairport, even though it's technically Perinton. Like you, where people say they're from Churchville or Chili, when actually it's considered the bigger encompassing Riga. Churchville and Chili are both within Riga, and Fairport is the village within Perinton. Our school district is Fairport even though all the schools aren't even in the village of Fairport.

I've attached a photo - the red line is Stearns Rd where Carmen's body was found, and you can see Churchville is a ways away in the top left, and the purple is where the Chili limits begin. So according to the maps, and where town lines start, she was found in Riga, albeit very close to the start of Chili.

It just bothers me that the media changed to saying she was found in Chili for seemingly the sensationalism of the case.

 

[Megsleuths97]

No I totally know what you're saying. And same for me that everyone from Perinton says they're from Fairport, even though it's technically Perinton. Like you, where people say they're from Churchville or Chili, when actually it's considered the bigger encompassing Riga. Churchville and Chili are both within Riga, and Fairport is the village within Perinton. Our school district is Fairport even though all the schools aren't even in the village of Fairport.

I've attached a photo - the red line is Stearns Rd where Carmen's body was found, and you can see Churchville is a ways away in the top left, and the purple is where the Chili limits begin. So according to the maps, and where town lines start, she was found in Riga, albeit very close to the start of Chili.

It just bothers me that the media changed to saying she was found in Chili for seemingly the sensationalism of the case.

Ahhh okay I’m better understanding the location now! I had to take a drive out that way Wednesday via 490 and honestly in my opinion, I’d call that area Churchville so maybe the authors didn’t realize it at first and then when the second one happened, they were like “OH, Churchville!” (lol)

But again, thank you so much for the exact location because I was super in the dark, seeing how a lot of what’s out that way is marsh land, and I was looking for a gully my next rez trip I’ll have to detour. I much better understand locations by being there!

 

[ziggystarshay]

Ahhh okay I’m better understanding the location now! I had to take a drive out that way Wednesday via 490 and honestly in my opinion, I’d call that area Churchville so maybe the authors didn’t realize it at first and then when the second one happened, they were like “OH, Churchville!” (lol)

But again, thank you so much for the exact location because I was super in the dark, seeing how a lot of what’s out that way is marsh land, and I was looking for a gully my next rez trip I’ll have to detour. I much better understand locations by being there!

Haha and glad it was helpful! Definitely have to dig through articles to find the more specific details like that. It was reported she was raped and killed her near the expressway, and then drove the 2 miles to Stearns Rd and rolled her body into a ditch. Ugh, tragic. But I agree, seeing it on a map clarifies it a lot. I've never taken a drive out there, so you'll have to report back! Wonder how much it's built up/changed since the early 70s.

 

[PeregrineFalcon]

I was living in Webster when Carmen and Wanda were killed. Wanda was found 1 mile from my house. We left NY after Wanda was killed and before Michelle. I knew Carmen was found in Chili and the name Riga was never mentioned back then. I have thought about those girls my whole life (I was in the same age range, 11-12) and wish the DNA from Wanda could be sent to Othram.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

The Alphabet Murders left an indelible mark on Rochester and Western New York. Parents became more protective, children were taught to be wary of strangers, and the case forever changed how missing child investigations were handled in the region.

While Rochester has evolved since the 1970s, the memory of Carmen, Wanda, and Michelle lingers. The streets they once walked are still there, the neighborhoods they called home still standing, but their absence is felt by those who remember.

Until their killer is found, their case remains a painful open wound in the history of Western New York. Perhaps one day, through new technology or an unexpected confession, justice will finally be served. Until then, the people of Rochester—and beyond—continue to wait.

Revisiting "The Alphabet Murders:" Rochester’s Chilling Unsolved Mystery - THE WELLSVILLE SUN

Churchville, Webster, and Macedon—became forever linked to the tragedy By: Johanna Elattar, pictured is 11 year old victim Wanda Walkowicz Western New York has seen its share of crime over […]

wellsvillesun.com

 

[Falling Down]

Newsweek article from 2023. Says the killer's family has been narrowed down through using familial DNA techniques:

Exclusive: Alphabet murder suspect released after serving 30 years for rape

DNA evidence may finally bring closure to the victims' families after 50 years of waiting.

www.newsweek.com

 

[tilomagnet]

Sorry, Im not following....where does it say that they narrowed it down?

DNA from the Walkowitz case still exists and it seems like they have a decent suspect. But why hasnt it been compared yet? The guy had been in jail for child rape ffs.....whats stopping LE from getting his DNA and testing it?!

 

[Falling Down]

Sorry, Im not following....where does it say that they narrowed it down?

DNA from the Walkowitz case still exists and it seems like they have a decent suspect. But why hasnt it been compared yet? The guy had been in jail for child rape ffs.....whats stopping LE from getting his DNA and testing it?!

Tubman said that he is hoping technology will bring the long-awaiting breakthrough in the case.

"Every day there is a new [DNA] enhancement and it's just getting better and better. Familial DNA evidence is getting better too. [The suspect's] family has been tracked down but I think the police have to get a fresh sample of the suspect's DNA and blood," he said.

 

[tilomagnet]

yes as I said, they havent tested anything yet. There is no match yet. maybe they are on the right track, maybe not.

 

[Melquiades]

I posted back in 2023 that I expected this case to be solved in a year or two via familial DNA and sounds like that’s on track to be the case.

Fascinated to see what happens because this is one of the strangest cases there is.

 

[MediainfoMPM]

I just finished reading Nightmare in Rochester by Benson/Tubman, which I found to be a very well written and detailed book on this case. Would definately recommend it. A couple thoughts....

- Apparently the only useable DNA to have survived comes from the WW case, which is why there is still a lot of debate whether all 3 cases are actually related

- Over the years many seem to tentatively link the WW & MM cases while the CC case is the one that is often considered separate (with her uncle a prime suspect)

- The DNA recovered from the WW does unfortunately not match known suspects

- Police investigation has been considered solid with an extensive investigation that hasn't zeroed in on a specific theory, no coverups suspected ala OCCK

- One witness of the CC incident on the freeway when she briefly got away from the abductor(s) described a man and a woman (!) in or near the car, with the woman apparently dragging CC back into the car;

- There is a witness for the MM abduction, a girl who got a good look at the abductor when he sped by her with MM in the car; The author made her look at various suspects and apparently there is a strong resemblance to a known rapist who would commit similar abductions later on; His DNA was not a match to the WW DNA;

- The MM abductor was described as scruffy with a run down car, kinda like a "textbook" molester;

The Detectives mostly believe that CC was separate from WW and MM because of a couple of reasons. First is that she was strangled from the front. Second, she was left naked.

It is well documented that serial killers learn as they go. They get better at the task as they do more murders. How terrible (obviously) this was for CC but also, I'm sure for the suspect. Watching that must have been terrible (again obviously for the victim) and hard to see as the suspect.

So with WW and MM - the killer had more experience and had learned. It's easier to strangle from behind. Maybe he felt better about not having to see the victim's face. Also leaving them dressed and not naked. Again, maybe some sort of vindication as he got better at doing this.

The scenario about the killer learning and getting better at assaulting and killing is best described in Gone Girls; LISK. The Long Island Serial Killer.