NY - Twenty Fatality Traffic Crash, Schoharie County, 6 Oct 2018

[CoverMeCagney]

Four sisters, oh my word. Most of us can only just begin to imagine (from being members here) what it must be like to lose a child, but four, all in one go, is just devastating....

 

[oceanblueeyes]

To me it means the families of those who lost their lives will have little chance of suing this inept reckless limo company.

If so that will be such a shame since they all lost their lives through no fault of their own.

I wouldn't even be surprised if they didn't have liability insurance.

Do we even know if they had a current business license?

 

[Inthedetails]

I have no words after reading the posts on this page.

It is impossible to absorb.

 

[margarita25]

20 die when limo on way to birthday party blows stop sign

 

[Lato]

I have spent some time trying to see what the speed limit is on Hwy 30 and on 30A, and I am unable to find one that would indicate a change in speed as you get closer to this intersection.
There is a stop sign ahead sign....fairly close to the intersection.
It does look dangerous....!!!

Google Maps
(It is an August, 2014 image capture. There may be better signage now.)

 

[crhedBngr]

Interesting observation about the Ford Excursion involved in the accident:

20 killed when limousine carrying upstate birthday party crashes - NY Daily News

The Ford Excursion in Saturday’s crash was lengthened after it left the Ford factory, an official told the AP. The Suffolk grand jurors found such limos often lack adequate side-impact panels and other features to make them stronger.

 

[CocoChanel]

20 die when limo on way to birthday party blows stop sign

The link says it was a 2001 Ford Excursion limo.....17 years old. How road-worthy could it be for 18 innocent passengers?

 

[Mica]

To me it means the families of those who lost their lives will have little chance of suing this inept reckless limo company.

If so that will be such a shame since they all lost their lives through no fault of their own.

I wouldn't even be surprised if they didn't have liability insurance.

Do we even know if they had a current business license?

If it is determined this accident was due to a faulty and disrepaired limo, the company owner should go to jail for life. IMO

 

[Lato]

Better view of intersection...still looking for speed limits.
Google Maps

 

[Mica]

I have spent some time trying to see what the speed limit is on Hwy 30 and on 30A, and I am unable to find one that would indicate a change in speed as you get closer to this intersection.
There is a stop sign ahead sign....fairly close to the intersection.
It does look dangerous....!!!

Google Maps
(It is an August, 2014 image capture. There may be better signage now.)

>>snip

The store sits at the intersection of routes 30 and 30A, at the bottom of a steep hill. The speed limit on Route 30 in that area is 50 mph. There is no indication a stop sign lies ahead until drivers are about 200 feet from the intersection. The southbound lane was covered in skid marks from motorists apparently braking hard to stop suddenly.

>> snip

“And if you were going too fast and you're not familiar with the area, you won't know it's a stop at the end of a steep hill," she said.

Schoharie limo crash deadliest in US in nine years

 

[CocoChanel]

Better view of intersection...still looking for speed limits.
Google Maps

That doesn’t look like the same intersection, or is it a different angle? My understanding is that 30 and 30A are perpendicular to each other, no? Also, not seeing the Apple Barrel restaurant, but I might be turned around?

 

[crhedBngr]

I have spent some time trying to see what the speed limit is on Hwy 30 and on 30A, and I am unable to find one that would indicate a change in speed as you get closer to this intersection.
There is a stop sign ahead sign....fairly close to the intersection.
It does look dangerous....!!!

Google Maps
(It is an August, 2014 image capture. There may be better signage now.)

Check this out:

https://www.lrrb.org/pdf/200642TS.pdf

The Effect of Rumble Strips on Drivers Approaching Rural, Stop-Controlled Intersections What Was the Need?

A common cause of traffic accidents at low-volume rural intersections is the failure of drivers on secondary roads to obey stop signs. To mitigate this problem, highway agencies frequently install in-lane rumble strips in advance of intersections on secondary roads. Rumble strips—rough-textured portions of the road surface meant to alert drivers by causing noise and vibrations—are often used to supplement devices such as “Stop Ahead” signs to alert drivers of intersections and traffic controls. A recent survey by SRF Consulting Engineers revealed that nearly 60 Minnesota counties have installed in-lane rumble strips on county routes.

 

[Lato]

Mica....thank you for the information on the speed and the signage.

 

[Mica]

Better view of intersection...still looking for speed limits.
Google Maps

From your Google link.....there is a sign on the highway warning of a stop ahead. There are also 2 Jct signs warning of an intersection ahead.

 

[mickey2942]

Ever since Diana Spencer's death in Paris, and it was discovered that the limousine driver, was drunk.
Henri Paul - Wikipedia

While this has been disputed, nonetheless, it impacted me, and I avoid situations that I do not know who is driving.

Now, I don't know if the driver in this situation was drunk, nor am I insinuating this. Just my own neurotic preference to not get in cars with drivers I do not know personally. This was further reinforced by a most unusual situation with an Uber driver, who...let's just say, 10 minutes into the ride, I asked to get out.

Sad situation. Because, of course, no one wants to wear seatbelts and ruin fancy clothes. This has not been verified yet though.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Sad situation. Because, of course, no one wants to wear seatbelts and ruin fancy clothes. This has not been verified yet though.

Respectfully, a lot of these modified limousines don't even have seatbelts anywhere but where it's mandated by law — the front seat / driver.

 

[Boodles]

That doesn’t look like the same intersection, or is it a different angle? My understanding is that 30 and 30A are perpendicular to each other, no? Also, not seeing the Apple Barrel restaurant, but I might be turned around?

This is the intersection.
Google Maps

Turn the map around (it’s facing N) to show the southbound view and the Apple Barrel at the intersection.

 

[CocoChanel]

Ever since Diana Spencer's death in Paris, and it was discovered that the limousine driver, was drunk.
Henri Paul - Wikipedia

While this has been disputed, nonetheless, it impacted me, and I avoid situations that I do not know who is driving.

Now, I don't know if the driver in this situation was drunk, nor am I insinuating this. Just my own neurotic preference to not get in cars with drivers I do not know personally. This was further reinforced by a most unusual situation with an Uber driver, who...let's just say, 10 minutes into the ride, I asked to get out.

Sad situation. Because, of course, no one wants to wear seatbelts and ruin fancy clothes. This has not been verified yet though.

I think you are wise, not neurotic.
I do think that if the passengers in this tragedy were not wearing seatbelts, it was probably not due to them wearing fancy clothes. I am very doubtful there even were seatbelts in the part of the vehicle where the majority of the passengers ride, since it is not required by law, and this was a reportedly 17 year old car.

 

[mickey2942]

Respectfully, a lot of these modified limousines don't even have seatbelts anywhere but where it's mandated by law — the front seat / driver.

I wasn't sure. Was the driver wearing a seat belt? I couldn't tell by any of the articles. I don't even like that school buses don't require seat belts.

 

[Gardenista]

NYT Report

New York Limo Crash: What We Know About the 20 Victims