Obama Wants Longer School

[daisy7]

I thought more about Obama's comment about keeping schools open on weekends so kids would have a safe place to go. Don't respectable parents provide a safe place for their children on weekends?

Well, yeah, but of course this doesn't always happen as we would like. There are definitely some not so good parents and there are others who are trying their best, but just can't, mainly for financial reasons, have a safe place for their kids to go after school while they are working.

I could be wrong, but I haven't yet seen that Obama wants kids to go to school during these times, just that schools would be open during these times? I'm all for having schools be open in the evenings and weekends to be a resource for our kids, kind of like a community center. It just makes sense -- they have the building, computers, gym, etc. Why not utilize them for other community activities after the school day?

My son's cub scout weekly den meeting and the pack's monthly meeting is held at our elementary school in the evening. This is just one example of how we could better effectively use the resources that schools already have. Other nonprofits who run after-school/weekend programs could hold them at schools and then these nonprofits wouldn't have the added cost of maintaining their own facilities.

Just seems like a win-win-win situation to me.

 

[SuziQ]

I thought more about Obama's comment about keeping schools open on weekends so kids would have a safe place to go. Don't respectable parents provide a safe place for their children on weekends?

IMO, it's not so much about having a safe place, but rather having to leave your kids alone in that safe place. Been there and done that because I had no choice. The days of working hours only being Monday through Friday, 9-5 are over. People are working 3 part time jobs that total 60 hours a week and they still can't pay the bills. What about medical professionals? They are working all kinds of weird hours. Good luck finding daycare for Saturday or Sunday.

 

[Fairy1]

I have some issues with this plan. First off, kids don't need longer days, just more productive days. They need to be challenged. They need to be engaged and even entertained, to a certain degree. Those who are not engaged now will certainly not be engaged with longer days.

Secondly, I don't believe schools should be made into to "daycares" - particularly on the weekends. That being said, there are basketball courts and wide open fields in our schools that are closed off outside of school hours. As a taxpayer, that bothers me. IMO, these are public areas that should be open to people 24/7.

Thirdly, I have had one kid in year-round and another in nine-month - at the same time. I didn't know if I was coming or going! That being said, my daughter, who was always an honor student, was totally burned out by April or so every single year until she was in year-round. That broke it up a bit for her and she really did well in year-round. The breaks were not so long that she forgot everything she was being taught in school and they were healthy for her. Then, her school switched from year-round to nine-month and she wound up having 2 weeks off between 6th and 7th grades.

Lastly, I'm in Vegas, where it's 100+ degrees from May to September. On the one hand, our kids here really cannot play outside in the summer. On the other hand, the cost of having all of the schools open in the summer would be astronomical! Based on all the budget cuts we've had recently, this just doesn't seem to be the best way to go. However, if the students perform better with this schedule. I'm all for it!

IDK. I really don't think longer days are the answer. I think the entire school system needs to be totally revamped.

 

[snookie]

I don't mind the year round school schedule, but I do not approve of longer days.

It's not the school or the government's job to raise my kids.

 

[Trino]

I'm familiar with both Inner-city and suburban schools. The inner-city school system near me won't even have evening football games because of problems. Basketball games are also scheduled during daylight hours, as well as as many h.s. events as can be scheduled during daylight hours. Can you imagine keeping these schools open weekends when gangs and thugs have little to do anyway? And, this would be a safe environment for kids?

Additionally, schools would need to heat/air condition all schools, pay weekend utility bills, pay teachers (or someone) to supervise kids, and pay security. Where's the money going to come from? Most school systems are struggling financially now!

 

[Mr. E]

My in-laws used to teach in the Alaskan bush, where the only way in and out of a village was by plane. People lived in shacks with no plumbing! Alcoholism was rampant. But the school was state-of-the-art. It had a huge gym, showers, computer labs, library, etc. It was definitely used by the community on the weekends, and it was a safe place for kids to go when they weren't in a proper classroom setting. Maybe this is the type of thing Pres. Obama means? Turn schools into community centers when they aren't being used as schools? I'm sure he doesn't mean open the doors and let kids run wild.

By the way, I am a teacher who is for year-round school. Yes, kids are wild the week before Christmas, Spring Break, summer vacation, etc. But if they are engaged in learning it's not that bad. The pluses (frequent intercessions, no big summer that sucks away nine months of hard work) far outweigh the cons, in my opinion.

 

[southcitymom]

kids spending more time in school is certainly not the key to a better education.

American chinese do their homework first after school; it's a high family priority...the local high school always has multiple kids scoring 800 on college boards, perfect 1600's are not uncommon

Hey Buzz,

We have two good friends who have lived in China with their 6 and 9 year old daughters for two years. Their Mother works for the CDC and is there working on a public health education project. In any event, they were home recently and it was very interesting to listen to their experience of the Chinese and education.

As a rule, Chinese adults (parents and teachers) put extraordinary (and, in my opinion, unhealthy) pressure on young kids to spend hours and hours a day, both in and out of school, on rote memorization. Play is discouraged - it is literally all about memorizing and repeating academic facts. Certainly,many Chinese families bring this cultural habit with them when they come here.

While I think it is very important to the development of children to have parents who focus on and are involved in their child's learning, I do not believe the Chinese are a role model in this area due to their extremism. I don't care how many perfect SATs they spit out, they are severely limited.

My friends point out that while such a system produces adults who have a certain type of brainpower, it also produces adults who are unable to think, plan and execute creatively. In business discussions, my friend finds that the Chinese are literally scared to brainstorm. They have not been raised to "think outside of the box." Indeed, they are shamed if they step outside of the very narrow intellectual box in which they have been raised and educated.

Now, of course, I am not saying every Chinese family is like this, but I do think it's important to look at this general truth when we discuss education - particularly because Asians are often upheld as a high standard and one we might wish to emulate.

 

[southcitymom]

I don't mind year-round schools or schools being a constant safe zone and important backdrop in the lives of children, but I don't think more hours in a classroom is the answer. Learning happens during every minute of our lives.

If I were called upon to "fix" education in the United States, the first thing I would do is build more schools - many many many many more state of the art schools. They would be beautiful, spacious, green and wired for sound with the best and most up-to-date resources in every area from the classrooms to the gymnasiums. I would take the money to do that from, among other places, our military and defense budget.

More schools with smaller classes is the first step towards truly shifting things. School, as it is now, is a huge timewaster due to the sheer volume of students. The jobs generated by building and maintaining these schools would be good for our economy.

I would then, of course, hire more teachers at a starting salary of $100,000.00/year. Teachers are in charge of our most important resource and should be paid like they are in charge of our most important resource.

I would do away with rote memorization for official grades. The classes would be small enough that I would expect the teachers to really know their students individually and to know when their students had a full grasp of the subject matter and/or when they were struggling.

Learning the basics would be very important in elementary school, but by jr high, the students would be encouraged to focus more fully on a field or fields of study that truly interested them.

There would be less rote memorization and sitting all day in a classroom and more active and engaging "lessons." As it stands now, love of learning is routinely clubbed out of little humans in schools by making it so boring in the name of efficiency.

I could go on and on!

There is NO reason that we couldn't do this - create smaller and more organic places of learning that respond to and nurture individuals as individuals - if we would simply begin to act like we believe it when we say education of our youth is the most important thing we can do for our country.

But the first step is more schools. One day I hope we will put our money where our mouths are when it comes to this issue.

 

[tiredofthis]

I actually like the year-round school system. We have several school in our district on this system. It's something like 9 weeks on and 4 weeks off? Students lose a lot of learning over the long summer break. The high school discussed going to the year-round system when some other schools began, but it interfered too much with sports.

The schools with the year-round system have seen improvements in their test scores. The money comes from Title One, which is federal funding.

I don't know about longer days, though. I have rehearsals after school and used to teach an after school drama class. Kids are worn out after school; it's hard enough to get them to focus. I don't think there is evidence that a longer day is beneficial, but year-round school systems seem to work.

My children have attended both year around school and the typical school year where they get summers off. I much preferred the system where they went year around. The kids would get two week breaks throughout the school year and a five week break in the summer.

 

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

Aren't there some areas in Arizona where the summer is so hot that it's not safe to let the kids run around all day. As a result the school systems have alternate schedules of 9 weeks on, 4 weeks off, 9 weeks on, 4 weeks off... or something like that to create year round school? This may be completely inaccurate, but I thought a teacher explained it to me.

Anyway, i think that alternate schedules could make it more palatable to have more school days. I would support 10 weeks on, 3 weeks off, 10 on, 3 off, 10 on, 3 off, 10 on, 3 off. That schedule adds 4 weeks to the schedule, and gives the kids something to look forward to throughout the day. I could also support making the school day 1 hour longer, but not much longer than that. I'm glad to see Obama's focus on education.

 

[MomofBoys]

This is pretty much cementing my decision to go with either homeschooling or a private school.

I'm not against year-round schooling with adequate breaks. In Florida, they've suggested a six weeks on, two weeks off schedule that I wouldn't be against.

Longer days? Forget that. Kids spend far too many hours at school only to come home to hours of homework. That doesn't include the volunteerism and extracirricular activities that most good colleges require. They're already up at the crack of dawn and in the winter, it's almost dusk when they return home!

 

[Boyz_Mum]

Snippets from article are in black, my commentary in blue:

"Obama says American kids spend too little time in school, putting them at a disadvantage with other students around the globe."

If our children spend more time in school, be it with year round school or longer days, what will the extra time focus on? Will the cirriculum change to accommodate learning? Since some of the inner city schools have drop out rates nearing 50%, will longer school days or years make that figure rise dramatically or will their be an adjustment in cirriculum to keep these "kids" in school?

We could make school hours longer AND stop summer vacation all together, but is that going to improve our "grades" on a global level?

"The president, who has a sixth-grader and a third-grader, wants schools to add time to classes, to stay open late and to let kids in on weekends so they have a safe place to go."

Again, I'll ask... If school buildings are left open to the public, how will the extra staff for maintenance and safety be paid? Will the staff be made up of volunteers? Would this open the floodgates for liability suits? Just how "safe" is it?

"While it is true that kids in many other countries have more school days, it's not true they all spend more time in school.
Kids in the U.S. spend more hours in school (1,146 instructional hours per year) than do kids in the Asian countries that persistently outscore the U.S. on math and science tests — Singapore (903), Taiwan (1,050), Japan (1,005) and Hong Kong (1,013). That is despite the fact that Taiwan, Japan and Hong Kong have longer school years (190 to 201 days) than does the U.S. (180 days)."

So... lengthening each day or shortening summer break or both will do what? The U.S. is already spending more hours in school but we're learning less?

"The Montgomery County, Md., summer program, which includes Brookhaven, received $1.6 million in federal stimulus dollars to operate this year and next, but it runs for only 20 days."

Where are these "Federal Stimulus Dollars" coming from? In General Math class, I learned that when a checkbook is empty, there's no extra to provide a financial stimulus. Our government has already borrowed from China. We've had a deficit since I was in high school. Does everyone in government need a refresher course in General Math?

"Those hours from 3 o'clock to 7 o'clock are times of high anxiety for parents," Duncan said. "They want their children safe. Families are working one and two and three jobs now to make ends meet and to keep food on the table."

I am not arguing the "high anxiety hours". I'm not arguing that some people are working one, two and three jobs, to make ends meet to keep food on the table. I would like to see actual statistics to support the statement. Because, earlier in the article this was stated:

"Summer is a crucial time for kids, especially poorer kids, because poverty is linked to problems that interfere with learning, such as hunger and less involvement by their parents."

Now I don't know what to think? Some families are working 3 jobs to keep food on the table and hunger is problem that interferes with learning. Kids only go hungry in the summer when they don't get free breakfast and free lunch at school? If one out of ten people receive food stamps in the U.S., why are people going hungry in the summertime? With a longer schedule, will our kids have dinner at school too?

I very well could be the most dense person on the planet, but I am still not understanding how lengthening the school day and/or shortening summer vacation is a cure for what ails our students?

 

[Chiquita71]

Hello WS

Okay. If people are going to be upset that children could get more of an education there is NOTHING this president can do to make people happy. And if we are more worried about money and business than our children's education we have a much bigger problem on our hands than any president.


JMO.

 

[Trino]

Snippets from article are in black, my commentary in blue:

"Obama says American kids spend too little time in school, putting them at a disadvantage with other students around the globe."

If our children spend more time in school, be it with year round school or longer days, what will the extra time focus on? Will the cirriculum change to accommodate learning? Since some of the inner city schools have drop out rates nearing 50%, will longer school days or years make that figure rise dramatically or will their be an adjustment in cirriculum to keep these "kids" in school?

We could make school hours longer AND stop summer vacation all together, but is that going to improve our "grades" on a global level?

"The president, who has a sixth-grader and a third-grader, wants schools to add time to classes, to stay open late and to let kids in on weekends so they have a safe place to go."

Again, I'll ask... If school buildings are left open to the public, how will the extra staff for maintenance and safety be paid? Will the staff be made up of volunteers? Would this open the floodgates for liability suits? Just how "safe" is it?

"While it is true that kids in many other countries have more school days, it's not true they all spend more time in school.
Kids in the U.S. spend more hours in school (1,146 instructional hours per year) than do kids in the Asian countries that persistently outscore the U.S. on math and science tests — Singapore (903), Taiwan (1,050), Japan (1,005) and Hong Kong (1,013). That is despite the fact that Taiwan, Japan and Hong Kong have longer school years (190 to 201 days) than does the U.S. (180 days)."

So... lengthening each day or shortening summer break or both will do what? The U.S. is already spending more hours in school but we're learning less?

"The Montgomery County, Md., summer program, which includes Brookhaven, received $1.6 million in federal stimulus dollars to operate this year and next, but it runs for only 20 days."

Where are these "Federal Stimulus Dollars" coming from? In General Math class, I learned that when a checkbook is empty, there's no extra to provide a financial stimulus. Our government has already borrowed from China. We've had a deficit since I was in high school. Does everyone in government need a refresher course in General Math?

"Those hours from 3 o'clock to 7 o'clock are times of high anxiety for parents," Duncan said. "They want their children safe. Families are working one and two and three jobs now to make ends meet and to keep food on the table."

I am not arguing the "high anxiety hours". I'm not arguing that some people are working one, two and three jobs, to make ends meet to keep food on the table. I would like to see actual statistics to support the statement. Because, earlier in the article this was stated:

"Summer is a crucial time for kids, especially poorer kids, because poverty is linked to problems that interfere with learning, such as hunger and less involvement by their parents."

Now I don't know what to think? Some families are working 3 jobs to keep food on the table and hunger is problem that interferes with learning. Kids only go hungry in the summer when they don't get free breakfast and free lunch at school? If one out of ten people receive food stamps in the U.S., why are people going hungry in the summertime? With a longer schedule, will our kids have dinner at school too?

I very well could be the most dense person on the planet, but I am still not understanding how lengthening the school day and/or shortening summer vacation is a cure for what ails our students?

My guess is that Obama will not get his request, since it's up to local school districts to lengthen school days, and they need money to do this. Just a comment on free breakfast/lunch in the summer months. While I don't know about your state/city, there are several programs that provide this in my state as part of parks & recreation and summer school.

It seems to me that schools have become overly concerned with test results, so much so that teachers are teaching to the standards with little concern for more than memorization/teaching to a test. Somehow past generations learned w/o state testing, so why can't the present generation? Just this week it was announced that there will now be national standards. Can national testing be far behind?

 

[Boyz_Mum]

My guess is that Obama will not get his request, since it's up to local school districts to lengthen school days, and they need money to do this. Just a comment on free breakfast/lunch in the summer months. While I don't know about your state/city, there are several programs that provide this in my state as part of parks & recreation and summer school.

It seems to me that schools have become overly concerned with test results, so much so that teachers are teaching to the standards with little concern for more than memorization/teaching to a test. Somehow past generations learned w/o state testing, so why can't the present generation? Just this week it was announced that there will now be national standards. Can national testing be far behind?

I don't feel that the economy (on a national level) can afford any of the ideas the article brings forth. People can't afford their houses (hence the high foreclosure rates) and I believe many can't afford their property taxes (in MI, school taxes are paid within our property taxes- unless that's only in our county?) I have heard that there are programs in our county in MI that do provide free breakfast and lunch during the summer months.

As far back as I can remember, I had "testing" in MI. In school, in the mid-70's, we had "California Acheivement Tests". My children have the "MEAP tests", here in MI. They had tests in CO too, I just can't remember what they were called.

Can you tell me where to find out information on the "national standards"? I thought we already had national standards, as per educational requirements? Do we have time to prepare our children for this "national standard"? (Our newspapers in the US are written at a 6th grade reading level, and now they're worried about setting a national standard???):banghead:

 

[MomofBoys]

Hello WS

Okay. If people are going to be upset that children could get more of an education there is NOTHING this president can do to make people happy. And if we are more worried about money and business than our children's education we have a much bigger problem on our hands than any president.


JMO.

Please. There is a lot more to it than a blanket increase in "education."

Think about it:

Kids are already at school almost eight hours a day.

Add two to three hours of homework.

Add transportation time getting to and from school.

Then, factor in the cost of keeping schools open longer, whether it be through the year or through the day. Or both. Increase in salaries. Utilities. A/C through the summer months in states like Florida, and that is not insignificant.

Then imagine using that money to decrease class sizes and improve curriculum. To make teachers' wages more competitive and encourage competition. To open art and music programs to public school students again. To get better, more interactive educational materials.

No, let's just go with Obama's plan and put a bigger strain on the existing system. Because more is always better, I guess. Keep the class sizes the same and don't expand the curriculum. Because I'd much rather have my children sitting in a classroom longer instead of being...say...children.

Public school, as it stands now, is pretty stifling. Teachers do their best, but so much has been budgeted right out of the system. I was fortunate to get to go to art and my chorus classes and gifted. My sister, five years younger, had none of that. She started the violin only to have orchestra cut the next year.

You can get stuff done in the current day. It's quality, not quantity, that we're looking for and putting more of a burden on teachers and the system is not going to increase our intellectual worth to the world. Burning out our kids will just create kids who resent learning.

My kids won't go to public school if this happens. I was on the fence before, but I value their childhood too much.

 

[Trino]

Can you tell me where to find out information on the "national standards"? I thought we already had national standards, as per educational requirements? Do we have time to prepare our children for this "national standard"? (Our newspapers in the US are written at a 6th grade reading level, and now they're worried about setting a national standard???):banghead:

Snipped...

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2009/09/30/midmorning1/

 

[Chiquita71]

Please. There is a lot more to it than a blanket increase in "education."

Think about it:

Kids are already at school almost eight hours a day.

Add two to three hours of homework.

Add transportation time getting to and from school.

Then, factor in the cost of keeping schools open longer, whether it be through the year or through the day. Or both. Increase in salaries. Utilities. A/C through the summer months in states like Florida, and that is not insignificant.

Then imagine using that money to decrease class sizes and improve curriculum. To make teachers' wages more competitive and encourage competition. To open art and music programs to public school students again. To get better, more interactive educational materials.

No, let's just go with Obama's plan and put a bigger strain on the existing system. Because more is always better, I guess. Keep the class sizes the same and don't expand the curriculum. Because I'd much rather have my children sitting in a classroom longer instead of being...say...children.

Public school, as it stands now, is pretty stifling. Teachers do their best, but so much has been budgeted right out of the system. I was fortunate to get to go to art and my chorus classes and gifted. My sister, five years younger, had none of that. She started the violin only to have orchestra cut the next year.

You can get stuff done in the current day. It's quality, not quantity, that we're looking for and putting more of a burden on teachers and the system is not going to increase our intellectual worth to the world. Burning out our kids will just create kids who resent learning.

My kids won't go to public school if this happens. I was on the fence before, but I value their childhood too much.

Quote Respect MomofBoys

I do stand corrected by your point of view. I love what you had to say. I admit my attitude was that people just want to poo poo any ideas of change without giving them a chance. I hear "more education" and I jump on that bandwagon...but I understand this can be done in other ways than "more school." I especially loved the suggestions of yours that I bolded.

What gets upsetting is that someone will come along and argue that stuff. Anything that you try to think will be a "good thing" is something that when you find out about it always has all these "negatives." The truth is, if everyone really cared about everyone-we wouldn't even have to argue any of this stuff. But not everyone does. Some people are greedy, or are afraid if they "share" then they will not have enough. My mother used to tell me what I was talking about was "communism" but I think it's probably called "Heaven."

Wanting your children to have their childhood is right on, and I thank you for all you had to say. You are obviously not "against" more education...just the way we go about that-makes total sense.

:cow:

 

[Bee Happy]

I homeschool my three kids and we have 4-5 hr days year round. We can usually complete a yr and half during one "typical" school year. I don't think longer days are a good idea at all. Kids are way too tired at the end of the school day already. However, it's public school and whatever changes are made parents have to go with.

 

[Trino]

I noted the suggestions to decrease class size and improve curriculum. When testing mandates what's taught, lots of luck improving it.

As to decreasing class size, some of this is comparing apple to oranges, i.e. suburban vs. inner-city schools. I taught in an inner-city school that had class sizes of 20 kids, often less. Would you believe my entire daily class load was 105 kids per day in regular classes?

The problem was kids would not attend school. Obviously, the school had a problem with passing tests and, eventually, was restructed, as though the teachers were responsible for the failures.

The school tried everything to get parental involvement, even giving free meals to attend programs. They made telephone calls to parents before conferences, which were a joke because most teachers saw about 15 -20 parents on conference nights. They tried holding some conferences during the day - no deal.

I can tell you stories that would make your ears stand on end. One story that stuck with me in all the years I taught was contacting a single mom because her 14 yr old son was not doing ANY homework. The single mother only saw him briefly on weekends because she worked long hours, and he was asleep when she got home. He left for school before she got up.

Another story involved a h.s. girl who was working at BK during the day instead of attending school. When I called her father about absences and informed him it was illegal for her to work because she was not 16 and had to be in school, he asked me how he could legally get her to drop out of school.

Anyone who has not dealt with REAL inner-city schools has no REAL idea what's happening.