Obama Wants Longer School

[Linda7NJ]

IMO Public schools are sorely lacking in many ways. That's why my child attends a small private school.

The biggest failures I see, the bulk of the money it takes to educate a child in public school is eaten up by administrative costs. Very little actually trickles down to the classroom.

Parents are also a HUGE part of the problem. Their attitude and commitment is lacking. School should not be a replacement for parenting but all too often they are.

I am also sick and tired of teachers whining about how much they make.

I pay 5000 a year. That covers tuition, that also covers the cost of all his books, books we now own....... and uniforms . His teachers make half what public school teachers do, and don't have the perks they do either. Yet his school consistently outscores public schools. Why does it cost 14,000 dollars to educate a single child in public school and the education the public school child is substandard?

Public schools should be competitive. Let parents chose which school their child attends based on performance, not location. Make parents responsible for transporting their children.

If the government gave vouchers and allowed parents to chose, the quality would improve. Failing schools wouldn't survive and they shouldn't.

 

[Trino]

IMO Public schools are sorely lacking in many ways. That's why my child attends a small private school.

The biggest failures I see, the bulk of the money it takes to educate a child in public school is eaten up by administrative costs. Very little actually trickles down to the classroom.

Parents are also a HUGE part of the problem. Their attitude and commitment is lacking. School should not be a replacement for parenting but all too often they are.

I am also sick and tired of teachers whining about how much they make.

I pay 5000 a year. That covers tuition, that also covers the cost of all his books, books we now own....... and uniforms . His teachers make half what public school teachers do, and don't have the perks they do either. Yet his school consistently outscores public schools. Why does it cost 14,000 dollars to educate a single child in public school and the education the public school child is substandard?

Public schools should be competitive. Let parents chose which school their child attends based on performance, not location. Make parents responsible for transporting their children.

If the government gave vouchers and allowed parents to chose, the quality would improve. Failing schools wouldn't survive and they shouldn't.

MN does give vouchers. The inner-city school to which I referred also provides free bus transportation within the district to attend another school. Still, most schools in that inner-city district are failing. The problem in that district is not the schools or the teachers. Private schools do not have to take students like the ones I described in the previous post. This explains why they outscore the public schools.

 

[Pandora]

Y'all think public schools are bad now--wait until you see Arnie's "improvements." He wants a standardized nationwide curriculum, which I am for; however, yesterday I got a peek at the preview. It is the lowest quality CRAPOLA I've ever seen. My seventh graders could pass his graduation test by the time I'm finished w/ them at the end of their seventh grade year. It is NOT even close to what our local school board requires for seniors to graduate. It MAY be close to MD's requirements. Not to pick on MD, but only 5 seniors did not pass their graduation test last year.

 

[Trino]

Y'all think public schools are bad now--wait until you see Arnie's "improvements." He wants a standardized nationwide curriculum, which I am for; however, yesterday I got a peek at the preview. It is the lowest quality CRAPOLA I've ever seen. My seventh graders could pass his graduation test by the time I'm finished w/ them at the end of their seventh grade year. It is NOT even close to what our local school board requires for seniors to graduate. It MAY be close to MD's requirements. Not to pick on MD, but only 5 seniors did not pass their graduation test last year.

IMO most curriculum content and many state tests have been "dumbed" down in the last several years. Why? States cannot afford to fail so many kids. It doesn't look good if there's a poor graduation rate.

Also, some community colleges may not be giving students the higher education for which they're paying. My son was enrolled in a private college, and found one course he could take at a community college and transfer credit to his private college. He said going to the class was like being back in h.s.

 

[panthera]

This is pretty much cementing my decision to go with either homeschooling or a private school.

I'm not against year-round schooling with adequate breaks. In Florida, they've suggested a six weeks on, two weeks off schedule that I wouldn't be against.

Longer days? Forget that. Kids spend far too many hours at school only to come home to hours of homework. That doesn't include the volunteerism and extracirricular activities that most good colleges require. They're already up at the crack of dawn and in the winter, it's almost dusk when they return home!

Thankfully I don't have to worry about this but I definitely agree with you about the longer school days. It's difficult enough for us adults to get through a busy eight hour work day, plus commute time ~ let alone imposing more hours on children who still have homework to do at night. Too many younger kids would be too tired at night. I'm not so much against a longer school year, though, since it would probably help keep some kids out of trouble during the summer months. MOO

 

[opme]

Please. There is a lot more to it than a blanket increase in "education."

Think about it:

Kids are already at school almost eight hours a day..

I wouldnt agree with that statement our local elementary bus time is 8:45am and drop off at 3:45pm

Add two to three hours of homework..

I think this is dependant upon the age of the child and the individual teacher last year homework was taking hour - hour and 1/2, this year its is generally 20 mins

Add transportation time getting to and from school. ..

Times above include the transportation

Then, factor in the cost of keeping schools open longer, whether it be through the year or through the day. Or both. Increase in salaries. Utilities. A/C through the summer months in states like Florida, and that is not insignificant.

Then imagine using that money to decrease class sizes and improve curriculum. To make teachers' wages more competitive and encourage competition. To open art and music programs to public school students again. To get better, more interactive educational materials.

No, let's just go with Obama's plan and put a bigger strain on the existing system. Because more is always better, I guess. Keep the class sizes the same and don't expand the curriculum. Because I'd much rather have my children sitting in a classroom longer instead of being...say...children.

Public school, as it stands now, is pretty stifling. Teachers do their best, but so much has been budgeted right out of the system. I was fortunate to get to go to art and my chorus classes and gifted. My sister, five years younger, had none of that. She started the violin only to have orchestra cut the next year...

We continue to have the arts and music programs supported with in our region none of the public schools have cut these areas ever- our less expensive private schools are less inclined to provide this same access to the arts. The private schools in our area run to the tune or 15,000 or more per year.. while our taxes are high they are no where near the private school costs. The public schools are high rated and achieve awards on a regular basis however they are driven to teach to the standards. There is no actual learning for specific subjects are based strictly on the drills and rote memorization.. the kids are measured every 3 weeks to assess their speed and accuracy to in prep for the standard tests. There is no time for critical thinking or problem solving or any other type of learning. I am all in favor of having smaller classes and more interest driven aspects of study where students can learn about what interests them and use that to engage them in the areas they are less interested in. I also beleive if the student is really engaged and actively learnign there is no need for homework to sure up the concepts learned in tclass.. there ought to be enough in the days lessons that the students dont need homework. The students lessons should be more tailored to their areas of opportunity reinforcing those conepts that are needed- frankly there are many parents who dont know the newer methods used or have the ability to assist their children regardless of interest so the student is on their own with no support for homework.
The high school I attended has failed to meet the nation standards on testing recently., and theur excuse was that one of the groups of special needs groups was the source of this lowered scores.. too much ephasis on the one group and further pointing out these childrens differences not to mention that the school is responsible to teach these students regardless of the standards testing. Its obvious that the method they are using is not working without the testing there would be no pressure to make sure these students are taught so its a double edged sword on multiple levels,.
MUch of what has been said i agree with however many parents dont have the luxury of being home at 3:30 in the afternoon for the bus so their children are attending other facilities many of which are expensive. Why cant that be used to offset the cost of the other aspects that have been mentioned. How about corporate sponsorship or other methods of raising money? I agree about letting kids be kids... however not all parents have the ability to provide hours of after school play without a price tag for a sitter, service or other method of care. I could go on all day .. sorry didnt mean this to be so long ... and not directed at you MomofBoys

You can get stuff done in the current day. It's quality, not quantity, that we're looking for and putting more of a burden on teachers and the system is not going to increase our intellectual worth to the world. Burning out our kids will just create kids who resent learning.

My kids won't go to public school if this happens. I was on the fence before, but I value their childhood too much.

 

[MomofBoys]

I agree about letting kids be kids... however not all parents have the ability to provide hours of after school play without a price tag for a sitter, service or other method of care.

I agree with this, but it's more of an economical issue than an educational one. It's a sad reality that many children have two working parents (we're in that boat at the moment) or a single working parent. But mandating longer school days for ALL children isn't the answer. In our public schools and charter schools, we have afterschool programs at those schools for either free or a sliding scale. There's no need to shuttle them off to expensive programs or karate class or whatever else.

I think the times spent at school are obviously dependent on the district. There are a lot of children that attend in rural areas that have to bus an hour to school. And frankly, there are schools in my area that I would simply not send my kids to, and if I got an exemption they'd have to be bussed to another city or county. I know that would be my choice, but I think those choices should be available without having to penalize the kids.

The longer school days might benefit some parents in some situations, but I stand by my belief that it will not benefit the children. Perhaps the money that would be spent for longer days could instead be used to implement free, safe, creative afterschool play and care.

 

[Trino]

I agree with this, but it's more of an economical issue than an educational one. It's a sad reality that many children have two working parents (we're in that boat at the moment) or a single working parent. But mandating longer school days for ALL children isn't the answer. In our public schools and charter schools, we have afterschool programs at those schools for either free or a sliding scale. There's no need to shuttle them off to expensive programs or karate class or whatever else.

I think the times spent at school are obviously dependent on the district. There are a lot of children that attend in rural areas that have to bus an hour to school. And frankly, there are schools in my area that I would simply not send my kids to, and if I got an exemption they'd have to be bussed to another city or county. I know that would be my choice, but I think those choices should be available without having to penalize the kids.

The longer school days might benefit some parents in some situations, but I stand by my belief that it will not benefit the children. Perhaps the money that would be spent for longer days could instead be used to implement free, safe, creative afterschool play and care.

Teachers are not trained to be baby-sitters. They're trained to teach subjects.

What about middle school and h.s. kids? Most likely they need as much, maybe more, supervision than elementary kids. Again, parents need to be responsible rather than a school system that lengthens a school day to provide supervision, using a pretext of improving test scores. I can easily see a lengthened school day becomming after school pick-up basketball games.

 

[stilettos]

This issue of longer school....it is about one thing....THE STATE wants your children...they want them at an earlier age, they want them for a longer school year. That way they can increase the indoctrination. They want to influence the thoughts and minds of future generations.

 

[Mira]

This issue of longer school....it is about one thing....THE STATE wants your children...they want them at an earlier age, they want them for a longer school year. That way they can increase the indoctrination. They want to influence the thoughts and minds of future generations.

i disagree with this statement. do you have any evidence that any state really wants to add to expenses by doing this? and what would the children be indoctrinated about?

dont mean to be argumentative, but your statement startled me.

 

[stilettos]

I don't mind the year round school schedule, but I do not approve of longer days.

It's not the school or the government's job to raise my kids.

Too true...snooks...it is my job to raise, influence, educate, provide safety, nuture and otherwise bring up my children to have intellectual, spiritual and moral values and knowledge. If our adoption plans go through...our 6th child will never darken the doors of a government run school.

 

[stilettos]

i disagree with this statement. do you have any evidence that any state really wants to add to expenses by doing this? and what would the children be indoctrinated about?

dont mean to be argumentative, but your statement startled me.

Sorry..Mira...but I happen to know that indoctrination in schools has already begun and has been going on for a long while. It would be inflamatory to get into all the differing ways this has happened. One way is that my local elementary school has decreed that absolutely no child in school there is to have personal property. Any and all school supplies provided by the parent are to be placed in a "class box" and all students share equally from it. They were told that "hoarding personal property is greedy and one day, no one will be allowed to do so." In the local High School Government theory class the teacher opined that "America has perpetrated evil throughout her history and that is why other countries hate us and attack us." I want my children to learn factual and historic information....not to be indoctrinated into a school of thought or political ideal.

 

[MomofBoys]

Teachers are not trained to be baby-sitters. They're trained to teach subjects.

What about middle school and h.s. kids? Most likely they need as much, maybe more, supervision than elementary kids. Again, parents need to be responsible rather than a school system that lengthens a school day to provide supervision, using a pretext of improving test scores. I can easily see a lengthened school day becomming after school pick-up basketball games.

If you've read my other posts, you can see I'm not disagreeing with you. Someone else brought up the subject of unsupervised children, and I was trying to bridge the gap between the two. Also, many after-school programs are overseen by volunteers and aides. Many teachers are never involved with after-school programs.

Again, I'm very anti-extension. I do feel like parents need to be responsible for their kids, but at the same time there's a very real contigent of parents who have to work two jobs, whether it be because of the economy or just to make ends meet in general or to avoid being on the system. After-school programs, already in existence, are not the same thing at all as mandatorily extending the school day.

 

[Masterj]

I think teachers have one of the most difficult jobs in the world which is often made harder by parents. If children must be subjected to testing, I have no problem with teachers being held to the same standards. Nobody wants poor performing and unqualified people teaching our kids.

While I understand what Obama means, I think it is unrealistic and a bit too idealistic to think schools could be open year-round as a safe haven for kids. The cost of that would be enormous. I don't have a problem wth kids having longer school days (within reason of course) or for adding more days. We are a bit behind some other countries in certain fields, as some of them have surprising numbers of future engineers and scientists. I do think that we do our children a disservice by coddling them too much and stripping the teachers and the schools of the power to discipline them for their actions. I can't believe the stuff that teachers today have to put up with. Some of my friends teaching stories are truly unbelievable.

 

[Marthatex]

I don't agree with longer school days, especially for elementary age students, but I think year-round school with small vacations in between sessions makes sense in this day and time, with so many parents working.

It was very challenging to keep my two children active and busy during the hot summers. (that's a euphamism for I went nuts after a month!) I don't know what I would have done had I been working. There's only so much swimming, summer-camping, baseball camping you can do!! The teachers send summer reading lists to accomplish, etc - kids are not as motivated as when their peers are reading the books with them. And all those camps are expensive!

It would be great to travel with the kids during fall or spring breaks, rather than summer when everyone else is travelling. IMO

 

[arielilane]

This is another perspective regarding education. I highly recommend reading the book Dumbing Us Down (the hidden curriculum of compulsory schooling) by John Taylor Gatto.

 

[arielilane]

I think they need to add education in finances. That would benefit us all! Many people don't even know how to write a check or balance a check book, understand stocks, interest rates, etc. Get rid of the "education" that we never use and teach something that we use for life...

 

[Trino]

I think they need to add education in finances. That would benefit us all! Many people don't even know how to write a check or balance a check book, understand stocks, interest rates, etc. Get rid of the "education" that we never use and teach something that we use for life...

The current education idea is that everyone needs to prepare for college, and h.s. curriculums are designed for this. IMO it's ridiculous that technical schools are so out of vogue. Our society needs beauticians, car repair people, computer repair persons, retail managers, etc. Why can't kids get these skills in h.s.?

 

[Pandora]

The current education idea is that everyone needs to prepare for college, and h.s. curriculums are designed for this. IMO it's ridiculous that technical schools are so out of vogue. Our society needs beauticians, car repair people, computer repair persons, retail managers, etc. Why can't kids get these skills in h.s.?

Tech Ed is quickly disappearing because oftentimes the same students to whom it appeals are those who have the most difficulty passing the NCLB standardized tests. I'm watching them get pulled out of every productive elective they like to do PSSA remediation. It's sad. Eventually, they will just quit school.

 

[Trino]

Tech Ed is quickly disappearing because oftentimes the same students to whom it appeals are those who have the most difficulty passing the NCLB standardized tests. I'm watching them get pulled out of every productive elective they like to do PSSA remediation. It's sad. Eventually, they will just quit school.

Teachers generally agree with you. Not everyone will make it in either a 2 or 4 yr college nor does everyone want to go to a standard higher education. And, why should kids pay to take tech courses when they could easily do this in h.s.? Strange but true... in MN students can be dismissed early to take college courses but not tech courses.