Odds of the SA having solid proof?

[ynotdivein]

Well, we don't know anything about when the grand jury met. Things may have been sealed at that time and we wouldn't know it. We don't know the horrible evidence they heard.

Or saw, bunchy. uke:

 

[krisskross]

Well, we don't know anything about when the grand jury met. Things may have been sealed at that time and we wouldn't know it. We don't know the horrible evidence they heard.

Actually we do, we know up until that point Caylee's remains had not been found. We know that a grand jury decides probably cause for an endictment, not guilt. We know Baez signed up for reciprocal discovery on October 15th. We know he and the family were still maintaining Caylee was alive until Roy Kronk found her on December 11th. We know who testified in front of the grand jury and who didn't. We know as Faefrost said, there would be a record of any evidence being sealed.

 

[bunchy]

Or saw, bunchy. uke:

Yep, I try not to let my mind go there.

 

[bunchy]

Actually we do, we know up until that point Caylee's remains had not been found. We know that a grand jury decides probably cause for an endictment, not guilt. We know Baez signed up for reciprocal discovery on October 15th. We know he and the family were still maintaining Caylee was alive until Roy Kronk found her on December 11th. We know who testified in front of the grand jury and who didn't. We know as Faefrost said, there would be a record of any evidence being sealed.

We don't know any of the evidence that was presented to the grand jury. I also believe we don't know what may have been sealed (since it was a grand jury hearing).

 

[krisskross]

We don't know any of the evidence that was presented to the grand jury. I also believe we don't know what may have been sealed (since it was a grand jury hearing).

Regardless of whether the grand jury proceedings are sealed or not, the defense are entitled to any and all evidence the State intend to use at trial. That means that after October 15th (when Baez signed up for reciprocal discovery), he would be entitled to see all evidence in posession of the State and within a designated time period.

No trial by ambush. If discovery material was deemed too predudicial to be in the public domain, the defense would be party to sealing it and there would be a record post Oct 15th.

There isnt.

 

[bunchy]

Regardless of whether the grand jury proceedings are sealed or not, the defense are entitled to any and all evidence the State intend to use at trial. That means that after October 15th (when Baez signed up for reciprocal discovery), he would be entitled to see all evidence in posession of the State and within a designated time period.

No trial by ambush. If discovery material was deemed too predudicial to be in the public domain, the defense would be party to sealing it and there would be a record post Oct 15th.

There isnt.

Of course it isn't trial by ambush, the defense gets the discovery. I haven't seen a motion to seal without the motion specifying what the evidence is. If it is falling under the exception to the sunshine law, I don't expect they would say what the evidence is that they want sealed. Wow, I'm sorry. Was that clear as mud?

 

[AZlawyer]

I don't think there is solid proof but I do know that one of the exceptions to the sunshine law is evidence that is extremely inflammatory. After the grand jury met, I believe it was Lamar Lawson(?) who stated that the people on the jury had to endure some horrible evidence. The body hadn't even been found yet so you have to wonder what that evidence was.

There are a lot of exceptions but that is not one of them.

RBBM... fae, do you think this might be what we're talking about here? The autopsy photos were IIRC sealed and will not be shown until trial. Perhaps HHSS's decision to seal the actual photos of Caylee's skull as it was retrieved IS the exception to the Sunshine Laws referred to?

(ETA: Which would go to the DT's frenzy to get that duct tape excluded one way or another...)

The autopsy photos are sealed, and probably will have to be blurred out for TV purposes even during the trial, but what would be in them that wasn't described in the autopsy report (other than being able to see more clearly where the duct tape was)?

Well, we don't know anything about when the grand jury met. Things may have been sealed at that time and we wouldn't know it. We don't know the horrible evidence they heard.

Evidence that was shown to the grand jury would still have to be disclosed to the defense, and released to the public unless it falls within a Sunshine Law exception, if it is going to be used at trial.

Regardless of whether the grand jury proceedings are sealed or not, the defense are entitled to any and all evidence the State intend to use at trial. That means that after October 15th (when Baez signed up for reciprocal discovery), he would be entitled to see all evidence in posession of the State and within a designated time period.

No trial by ambush. If discovery material was deemed too predudicial to be in the public domain, the defense would be party to sealing it and there would be a record post Oct 15th.

There isnt.

I agree. If things were being sealed, there would be a record.

 

[Gma Kat]

Tulessa,
bbm
I don't think they do...this is a IMO strong circumstantial evidence case and the ASA's are tossing out evidence/discovery they don't need or are unable to use for whatever reason..

We now know the State is not going to use 1) Maya D's statement 2)the statements she made to LE (the chit chat) after being indicted when Jose wasn't around and 3) video of her reaction the day Caylee's remains were found.

ITA Intermezzo, It appears this group of prosecutors have learned the lessons of high profile cases past............keep it simple, keep it strong. The simple things that grabbed us and made us scream "she's guilty" from the beginning of this case are the same simple things that will convict her.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Prosecutors also said they won't be using a jail video that shows Anthony's reaction when she was told her daughter's remains had been found.

They also said they will not be using statements Anthony made to deputies after her final arrest on Oct. 14 and things she said to another jail inmate, Maya Derkovic.

We should hear by the end of the week what the jury will and will not hear on these particular issues.
http://www.cfnews13.com/article/new...-heads-back-to-court-for-two-crucial-hearings

I guess they want to preserve the trial and not give the defense an appeal issue. Too predjudical against the defendant but I so wanted to see for myself. I also wanted to see the vid of her and Baez having a good cry when Caylee's remains were found. No one knew for sure it was Caylee but we all knew it was....so did ICA, for she knew where she put her..JMHO

The State is using the 911 call, the one where ICA goes into detail on WHO has Caylee and the last time she saw her. They have her statement that she was trying to find her on her own, which she admits was stupid...

The pontiac with the smell of death, thats' still in...

Caylee's remains, the skull with the duct tape is still in, isnt' it? That in itself will be hard to overcome...

The State shouldn't even consider using MD/RA jailhouse snitches never go over good. Especially since RA asked for something in return...I wouldn't use them either...ICA's letters, in her own handwritting, can be used, while there's no confession, there is much she brings up, her hatred for her mother, for instance.....JMHO

Justice for Caylee

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

The State shouldn't even consider using MD/RA jailhouse snitches never go over good.

Justice for Caylee

~ Respectfully snipped ~

This! So much this! I served jury duty for a murder trial last year. The prosecution called two witnesses with extensive criminal backgrounds. All I can say is: their testimony didn't mesh with one another and after listening to both testify, I couldn't figure out why the prosecution thought it good to use either of them. Their testimony actually hurt the prosecution more.

 

[faefrost]

RBBM... fae, do you think this might be what we're talking about here? The autopsy photos were IIRC sealed and will not be shown until trial. Perhaps HHSS's decision to seal the actual photos of Caylee's skull as it was retrieved IS the exception to the Sunshine Laws referred to?

(ETA: Which would go to the DT's frenzy to get that duct tape excluded one way or another...)

HHJS would not have had to take any action to seal remains photos. They are default sealed. I think the only actions he took regarding them were to insure that they remained under seal while allowing defense experts to examine them.

Do I think there is anything truly shocking in those photos. Well yes. We know what it is, we just don't know the full impact of it. The actual photos of the duct tape wrapped skull both from the remains site and on autopsy are certainly one of the more overwhelming pieces of evidence for the defense to get past. They will bicker all they can about minutiae, but the simply sight of that duct tape wrapped around the lower face of that tiny skull will be more powerful at trial then anything we have seen or read to date. That is the single slam dunk piece that put the death penalty back on the table. It obviously had that strong a response from the SA. And that alone was not a light or haphazzard decision to make. The SA was trying a young attractive woman for the murder of her daughter. They had already publicly decided not to seek the DP. Seeking the DP would be a massive increase in state time and resources for a minimal chance of actually receiving that sentence, given the tendencies of juries not to sentence women to death. The skull was powerful enough to push them past any of those concerns and change their minds. Something that would not happen lightly.

Well, we don't know anything about when the grand jury met. Things may have been sealed at that time and we wouldn't know it. We don't know the horrible evidence they heard.

The only thing from the Grand Jury that we would not know about for certain at this point is individual witness testimony. What they said on the stand. In this case the big one being GA. But even then the only thing that is sealed in the GJ is those actual proceedings and transcripts of such. The witnesses can and have been asked outside of the GJ. So what went on in the GJ has no real relationship to the trial. There still can be no surprises. The GJ doesn't seal things going forward. So if one side or the other wants to know what GA will say at trial they put him under oath and depose him.

 

[Tulessa]

Of course it isn't trial by ambush, the defense gets the discovery. I haven't seen a motion to seal without the motion specifying what the evidence is. If it is falling under the exception to the sunshine law, I don't expect they would say what the evidence is that they want sealed. Wow, I'm sorry. Was that clear as mud?

Ummm, seriously. The posters here are just trying to help. Step back, take a deep breath then continue. You won't meet any nicer peeps on the internet than those right here at WS. :blowkiss:

Thanks AZ. You explain things in a manner that even me (the little people) understand. :blowkiss:

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Well, we don't know anything about when the grand jury met. Things may have been sealed at that time and we wouldn't know it. We don't know the horrible evidence they heard.

Actually we do, we know up until that point Caylee's remains had not been found. We know that a grand jury decides probably cause for an endictment, not guilt. We know Baez signed up for reciprocal discovery on October 15th. We know he and the family were still maintaining Caylee was alive until Roy Kronk found her on December 11th. We know who testified in front of the grand jury and who didn't. We know as Faefrost said, there would be a record of any evidence being sealed.

They heard about the smell of death in the car, they probably pointed out that stain in the trunk in a fetal position, they heard 31 days of not reporting an allegedly missing child, the partying, they heard of all the lies, people named who don't exist, etc....GA's testimony and this proceeding had been sealed...

I also recall LDB asking for GA's GJ testimony so she can compare it to something else he said. For he too has changed his testimony or added in testimony that wasn't said prior. They can't backpeddle now, or the A's will be held in serious trouble too...JMHO

Justice for Caylee

 

[bunchy]

Ummm, seriously. The posters here are just trying to help. Step back, take a deep breath then continue. You won't meet any nicer peeps on the internet than those right here at WS. :blowkiss:

Thanks AZ. You explain things in a manner that even me (the little people) understand. :blowkiss:

This is the main site I come to for info about this case. I very much appreciate the accuracy and intelligence of the posters. I'm sorry if it seems I'm "going against the grain". I hope we have seen most of the really damning evidence but I believe there is more to come.

 

[KenoshaKid]

Heck, they don't even need evidence, imo. This is a mother whose child is missing and never reports it? It only comes out because the grandmother freaks out about it? Huh?? That was MY initial response when this story first broke. Then we find out that she didn't even go looking for her child and made up a kidnapper? Took police to a bunch of false addresses? Miss Anthony has cooked her own goose without any help from anybody.

 

[Annegirl]

This is not a slam dunk case. The prosecution is having to work very hard to make all this come together and I have no doubt that they will. And thankfully they are tossing the type of evidence that will do nothing for their case. The one question I would have a hard time getting past if I was on the jury would be, How long would it of been had not CA called 911 when she did and Would Casey of ever called 911 if her mother hadn't? I'd be stuck right there. Can't wait for tomorrow.

 

[Tulessa]

This is the main site I come to for info about this case. I very much appreciate the accuracy and intelligence of the posters. I'm sorry if it seems I'm "going against the grain". I hope we have seen most of the really damning evidence but I believe there is more to come.

I sure hope you're right Bunchy. I just would LOVEEE a latent print to pop up. KWIM?

 

[NoNameLeft]

I don't think there is solid proof but I do know that one of the exceptions to the sunshine law is evidence that is extremely inflammatory. After the grand jury met, I believe it was Lamar Lawson(?) who stated that the people on the jury had to endure some horrible evidence. The body hadn't even been found yet so you have to wonder what that evidence was.

BBM -> Sorry Bunchy, but that comment was not about this case. Mr. Lamar made it in reference to all the cases that this particular Grand Jury heard over a 6 month period. That day was their last day of jury duty, and it was brought up while thanking them for their service.

Here is the footage: Raw Video on WFTV if you want to refresh your memory.

 

[bunchy]

BBM -> Sorry Bunchy, but that comment was not about this case. Mr. Lamar made it in reference to all the cases that this particular Grand Jury heard over a 6 month period. That day was their last day of jury duty, and it was brought up while thanking them for their service.

Here is the footage: Raw Video on WFTV if you want to refresh your memory.

Thank you, you are correct. Her indictment may or may not have contained horrific evidence but something led to the indictment for murder without a body.

 

[NoNameLeft]

Thank you, you are correct. Her indictment may or may not have contained horrific evidence but something led to the indictment for murder without a body.

BBM -> Looking at the people who testified and the discovery at that time, we can get a pretty good picture of what the Jury heard:

FBI lab - hair with 'death band' from trunk
ORNL - smell of trunk, chloroform, adipocere found in stain and on napkins
FBI agent - possibly about the personality tests filled out by the family, or the out of state tips, or non-existing nanny
OSCO (Yuri Melich, K9 handler, possibly others) - Casey's demeanor, her lying (no job, no nanny), 31 days, smell of the car, K9 alerts, computer searches for chloroform
George - smell of car

It all points to a dead body in the car. The hair belongs to Caylee (since the other Anthony women are alive) indicating that she is deceased. On top of that she was not reported missing for 31 days, while her mother still refuses to tell LE anything useful. And finally, the chloroform searches, combined with the chloroform levels from the trunk, scream premeditation.

Hearing all that would convince me to recommend a trial for murder