Off the fence?
- Thread starter Anniegirl
- Start date
If she had been molested before by JR -why would he need the stun gun ? I wonder if there were any reports before of these lesions before 12-26.
To wit:
Although, there IS something, Anniegirl. There WERE marks like that on JB MONTHS before the slaying.
To wit:
Like I keep saying, 4sure, smart has nothing to do with it. You have to understand the difference between knowledge and wisdom.
To wit:
Although, there IS something, Anniegirl. There WERE marks like that on JB MONTHS before the slaying.
To wit:
Like I keep saying, 4sure, smart has nothing to do with it. You have to understand the difference between knowledge and wisdom.
Can you really believe the police department and FBI could show up at the house of a missing girl and not find her dead body in the basement? The ransome note is a message of some sort. It's code speaks to the right LE agents and its a threat to JR.Nova said:
MHO of course.
Anniegirl
Have you ever thrown a fist full of glitter in the
Oh My..sorry, I had to LOL at you 4 sure, i know this is a serious subject we're discussing but thanks for making me LOL!4sure said:
and Super Dave...dont be "hatin'" as they say.. play nice and dont insult- I know myself im not the most intelligent person on this board but i am attempting to educate myself more on this case and trying to figure out some stuff,...so there I really don't think Dave was being insulting, that's not his style.Anniegirl said:Oh My..sorry, I had to LOL at you 4 sure, i know this is a serious subject we're discussing but thanks for making me LOL!
Me either, we can't all be rocket scientists!
angelwngs
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2004
- Messages
- 5,038
- Reaction score
- 484
Common Sense-
To deflect suspicion placed on family members:
1) There needed to be at least the suggestion of an open window, an open door, a break-in, or multiple house keys in the posession of people other than family members, in order to suggest an intruder. Both the possibility of entry by an intruder through a door and or through an open window were provided.
2) Motive needed to be established and the RN was written, (convoluted as it was).
3) Prior sexual abuse needed to be covered-up so JBR's body showed evidence of current sexual abuse intended to defelct blame away from the actual abuser(s).
4) If "kidnapped", JBR could not be found in her own bed and she wasn't.
5) Evidence needed to be cleaned away so JBR's body was wiped down and clothing was changed. (Although apparently not done well enough as fibers were indeed found!)
IF it HAD been a kidnapper:
Why JBR? Why not BR? Why not both children? Why not PR knocked over the head while out shopping and shoved into a van? Was PR not worth a tiny 118,000 dollars ransom? (And please don't say it created too great of a chance for the kidnapper getting caught, to kidnap BR or both children...or PR. If it was a kidnapper, this IDIOT took the time to gather all items used from within the home and even wrote the note/novel inside the house and then took the time to molest and abuse JBR there as well.) Why would a kidnapper do this?
If we try to assume it was the abuser and that abuser was not a family member, and he/she was trying to cover up the crime of abuse:
Why in Heaven's Name would an abuser/intruder do 1-5 above to make it look as if a Foreign Faction kidnapped JBR? Why would he simply not just kidnap JBR and dispose of her body elsewhere or simply kill her in her home, leave her there and TRY to place blame on her family?!? If he needed time to get away and chose to write a RN, why not 20 words or less. Why a NOVEL? Why would any intruder go to such extensive lengths, taking so many chances of getting caught in the act, all completed within the home of the victim at the very scene of the crime? (With PR admitting to writing the "Mr. and Mrs. R" note from this same pad and calling it a practice "invitation", and with her evident similarities in handwriting and linguistics, we are 99.9% sure that she was the author of the RN!)
It is the CONVOLUTED EXCESS OF EVIDENCE that makes this crime point directly to family. (The Evidence: The physical evidence, the lies, the truths and the cover-ups.) In general, CRIMES THAT ARE NOT INTENDED TO COVER-UP FOR PERPS CLOSE TO THE VICTIM are NOT this complicated. They are relatively 'simplistic' in nature, IMO.
To deflect suspicion placed on family members:
1) There needed to be at least the suggestion of an open window, an open door, a break-in, or multiple house keys in the posession of people other than family members, in order to suggest an intruder. Both the possibility of entry by an intruder through a door and or through an open window were provided.
2) Motive needed to be established and the RN was written, (convoluted as it was).
3) Prior sexual abuse needed to be covered-up so JBR's body showed evidence of current sexual abuse intended to defelct blame away from the actual abuser(s).
4) If "kidnapped", JBR could not be found in her own bed and she wasn't.
5) Evidence needed to be cleaned away so JBR's body was wiped down and clothing was changed. (Although apparently not done well enough as fibers were indeed found!)
IF it HAD been a kidnapper:
Why JBR? Why not BR? Why not both children? Why not PR knocked over the head while out shopping and shoved into a van? Was PR not worth a tiny 118,000 dollars ransom? (And please don't say it created too great of a chance for the kidnapper getting caught, to kidnap BR or both children...or PR. If it was a kidnapper, this IDIOT took the time to gather all items used from within the home and even wrote the note/novel inside the house and then took the time to molest and abuse JBR there as well.) Why would a kidnapper do this?
If we try to assume it was the abuser and that abuser was not a family member, and he/she was trying to cover up the crime of abuse:
Why in Heaven's Name would an abuser/intruder do 1-5 above to make it look as if a Foreign Faction kidnapped JBR? Why would he simply not just kidnap JBR and dispose of her body elsewhere or simply kill her in her home, leave her there and TRY to place blame on her family?!? If he needed time to get away and chose to write a RN, why not 20 words or less. Why a NOVEL? Why would any intruder go to such extensive lengths, taking so many chances of getting caught in the act, all completed within the home of the victim at the very scene of the crime? (With PR admitting to writing the "Mr. and Mrs. R" note from this same pad and calling it a practice "invitation", and with her evident similarities in handwriting and linguistics, we are 99.9% sure that she was the author of the RN!)
It is the CONVOLUTED EXCESS OF EVIDENCE that makes this crime point directly to family. (The Evidence: The physical evidence, the lies, the truths and the cover-ups.) In general, CRIMES THAT ARE NOT INTENDED TO COVER-UP FOR PERPS CLOSE TO THE VICTIM are NOT this complicated. They are relatively 'simplistic' in nature, IMO.
Because this is what happens when you p!ss off the wrong people and don't play along with their game.angelwngs said:
Maybe not Narlacat. It at the very least is a pretentious remark. Either way I'm just having some fun. It was not meant to be a mean spirited reply. I'm just wondering if SD has considered my opinion on the difference and if it is at all close to his thoughts.narlacat said:
Do you think the police would have bought it that a sexual predator (who had entered through the open window) molested and garroted the child with her whole family being present in the home?4sure said:
And wouldn't the investigators pretty soon have come to the same conclusion as you: that all the Ramseys had to do was to open a door or a window to suggest "intruder"?
The Ramseys felt they had to write the ransom note because they desperately wanted to introduce an "outside element", and all their "small foreign faction" nonsense served that purpose. Stressed for time, they couldn't think of anything better.
Imo the staging served a double purpose: to direct attention away from the head bash and to camouflage the signs of chronic abuse.
rashomon said:
rashomon,
The head injury was not discovered until Coroner Meyer undertook an internal autopsy.
The chronic abuse could never be camouflaged it was visible to the naked eye, Coroner Meyer made a verbal remark to this effect.
.
UKGuy,UKGuy said:
But the Ramseys knew that the wound was there (although not visible), that's the point. And I think tying cloth ties in JB's hair was an additional attempt by them to make it seem like "nothing was there" in that area.
And why do you think JB's hair was done in those pigtails to prepare a staging scenario where the child allegedly had been abducted from bed? (I think this is your theory, but correct me if I'm wrong).
Do children wear velvet cloth ties in their hair for bed?
I meant by 'camouflage' that the Ramseys' intention was to lay out a false trail by inflicting the acute vaginal injury - so that the coroner should attribute all the other signs of abuse (reddening of the vaginal walls, etc.) to the alleged sexual predator too.
And remember that coroner Dr. Meyer did not speak of chronic abuse at the autopsy.
It was the panel of pediatric experts consulted later (Dr. McCann et. al.) who stated this.
rashomon,
.
Did they, I doubt they did, why should hair-ties hide anything?
An alternate theory would be along the lines that JonBenet was attacked whilst fully dressed, imo the hair-ties are similar to the urine-soaked underwear, they need explained. JonBenet did not go to the White's party with her hair tied up in asymmetric ponytails, can you see Patsy allowing that?
Yes this may have been the stagers intention, but to any crime-scene analyst its naive, and points directly to that area?
But Coroner Meyer did speak of chronic abuse at the autopsy. He verbally opined that someone had inserted their finger inside JonBenet, and that there had been sexual contact.
.
JMO8778 said:
JMO8778,
But the stagers mistake is that JonBenet did not go to the White's party with her hair tied up in asymmetric ponytails, can you see Patsy allowing that, is this why the Party Photographs have never been released? Remember the Ramsey's state that JonBenet was, on returning from the White's, placed straight to bed, with longjohns being put on her, e.g. no hair-ties.
So although JonBenet's urine-soaked underwear held no significance for the stager, the hair-ties do?
Also if the hair-ties were part of some prior activity shortly before her death, why are they not removed, her size-6 underwear was?
So either they have been overlooked by the stager, or they are part of some staging?
All of which may suggest a prior staging that was revised?
.
UKGuy,UKGuy said:
if JB was in such a deep coma after the head bash that they Ramseys probably thought she was dead, they must have known that something really bad had happened to her brain. And they might have done her hair in pigtails to suggest that nothing had happened to that area: no disheveled hair from a vicious head blow, etc.
The parents must have been in a total panic after what had happened, therefore the whole staging business was not done sophisticated in any way.
No, I can't see Patsy sending JB to a Christmas party with her hair done like that either.
But remember that the Whites knew which hairstyle JB was wearing at their party - so the Ramseys could not very well have lied about that by saying JB was wearing those pigtails to the Whites'.
Do you know if the Ramseys ever explained why JB's hair was tied in those pigtails?
The Ramseys were no sophisticated criminals who knew how to stage a scene. So it must have made sense to them to inflict this injury for staging purposes.
I don't see them as sadists who would have inflicted this (like Dr. McCann stated) extremely painful injury to their alive and conscious child.
Yes, but did Dr. Meyer explicitly speak of chronic abuse? Maybe he was referring to the acute injury when stating that someone had inserted their finger inside JonBenet?
Similar threads
