Officer shows 'great restraint' NOT shooting charging homicide suspect

[Tawny]

So he would have shot to save his buddy but not to save himself?

It's likely. But I don't know the man. I know myself, and I know I'm more likely to cut it too close when it's my own life but won't risk it when it comes to another person's life. Kind of know that from experience about myself. I don't know this officer, so I can't say for certain, obviously.

 

[jjenny]

I can only speak for myself. I am definitely not trying to bash Officer Kidder for his choice. I am thrilled that he is alive. My opinion regarding his choice is purely due to the fact that he could have been killed. Why? Here is an old (1998) but imho, relevant example of "exercising restraint" that did not go well for the officer. (Kyle Dinkheller Murder). Kyle's killer was executed in January of this year. The video of Kyle's murder is absolutely horrendous to view but also a testament to the type danger LEOs face when executing a "simple" traffic stop. How much more danger when confronting an individual who allegedly shot and killed two people? Orders of magnitude, I would say.

Of course he could have been killed. He was walking backwards (not an easy thing to do). He fell. At that time perp could have jumped on him and tried to take his gun. Officer got lucky because his back up showed up at the exact same time he fell backwards. Next time he might not be so lucky. He might as well to have just run away (would people be singing him praises if he did so?)
I wonder if all the coverage of "police brutality" is responsible for the reluctance to use deadly force even when it looks to be warranted.

 

[Brightbird]

Unless the number of police getting attacked or killed increases, then I don't think that recent coverage of police shootings is behind some officers reluctance to shoot. Besides, if there's more reluctance and few adverse consequences then that's a good thing. Maybe, for whatever reason, this officer had good intuition that this guy was calling his bluff. Suicide by cop is a little different to someone who wants to murder cops. It was a risky decision, especially when he fell, but I'm giving him the benefit of doubt and that he's capable of making complex rational decisions under pressure, perhaps because of his Marine experience. I'd rather a cop who can use intuition within the boundaries of protocol, than one who follows protocol in a rote kind of way.

 

[jjenny]

Unless the number of police getting attacked or killed increases, then I don't think that recent coverage of police shootings is behind some officers reluctance to shoot. Besides, if there's more reluctance and few adverse consequences then that's a good thing. Maybe, for whatever reason, this officer had good intuition that this guy was calling his bluff. Suicide by cop is a little different to someone who wants to murder cops. It was a risky decision, especially when he fell, but I'm giving him the benefit of doubt and that he's capable of making complex rational decisions under pressure, perhaps because of his Marine experience. I'd rather a cop who can use intuition within the boundaries of protocol, than one who follows protocol in a rote kind of way.

Do you realize that the suspect is suspected of killing two people (his fiancee and best friend)?
So what kind of intuition would tell the officer that this guy "was calling his bluff?"

 

[Tawny]

Do you realize that the suspect is suspected of killing two people (his fiancee and best friend)?
So what kind of intuition would tell the officer that this guy "was calling his bluff?"

That's the funny thing about intuition. It comes from within and can't really be defined by logic... "without the need for conscious reasoning."

 

[Brightbird]

Do you realize that the suspect is suspected of killing two people (his fiancee and best friend)?
So what kind of intuition would tell the officer that this guy "was calling his bluff?"

Yes I realize what he was suspected of. That's why I said 'intuition' and not a 'completely reasonable assumption based on the evidence at hand'.

 

[jjenny]

Yes I realize what he was suspected of. That's why I said 'intuition' and not a 'completely reasonable assumption based on the evidence at hand'.

The police officer didn't arrest the suspect. He fell on his back. What would have happened if if back up didn't arrive at that exact time?
I don't understand all the "praise," considering he didn't actually arrest the suspect. What protocol was he following?

 

[CoolJ]

The police officer didn't arrest the suspect. He fell on his back. What would have happened if if back up didn't arrive at that exact time?
I don't understand all the "praise," considering he didn't actually arrest the suspect. What protocol was he following?

Mistakes happen. He could have fallen on his back whether he was about to use lethal force or not. IMO, it is not a part of the discussion at hand.

 

[katydid23]

Mistakes happen. He could have fallen on his back whether he was about to use lethal force or not. IMO, it is not a part of the discussion at hand.

I disagree. He wouldn't have fallen on his back unless he was forced to retreat because of a charging perp. He allowed the screaming, aggressive murder suspect to come way too close to his gun, and he fell backwards in an attempt to protect himself. I see it as integral to the discussion at hand. JMO

 

[mysteriew]

I saw somewhere that the day this happened was the one year anniversary of Kidder being hired.

 

[CoolJ]

I disagree. He wouldn't have fallen on his back unless he was forced to retreat because of a charging perp. He allowed the screaming, aggressive murder suspect to come way too close to his gun, and he fell backwards in an attempt to protect himself. I see it as integral to the discussion at hand. JMO

Many police shootings I have seen or heard about, the officer was backing up. In the Darren Wilson case, him backing up was considered "evidence" that he was in fear of his life. Then if you look at the shooting just outside Ferguson a few months later at the gas station, same thing. Officer was backing up and actually fell as he was shooting. In both of those incidents the officers could have fallen while backing up before they had a chance to use lethal force. JMO

 

[Sonya610]

well to be fair to the officer, does he have to cut it that close? It's a matter of a split second. Does he have to wait and see the gun pointed and shooting at him? Which gives him a whole 1/10 of a second 'drop' on the murder suspect?

And it isn't a matter of "the winner shoots first". If the person shows/points the weapon there is a very good chance he can shoot the cop to death even IF the cop manages to shirt first.

 

[MsFacetious]

Unless the number of police getting attacked or killed increases, then I don't think that recent coverage of police shootings is behind some officers reluctance to shoot. Besides, if there's more reluctance and few adverse consequences then that's a good thing. Maybe, for whatever reason, this officer had good intuition that this guy was calling his bluff. Suicide by cop is a little different to someone who wants to murder cops. It was a risky decision, especially when he fell, but I'm giving him the benefit of doubt and that he's capable of making complex rational decisions under pressure, perhaps because of his Marine experience. I'd rather a cop who can use intuition within the boundaries of protocol, than one who follows protocol in a rote kind of way.

I agree, I think he went with his gut...
Which likely told him this guy didn't really want to kill HIM... he wanted to die himself.
If he had been armed the gun likely would have been displayed.
If he had been committed to killing a cop shots would have been fired to prove that.

I think this cop followed his gut instinct/intuition and it worked for him. :twocents:
I think that ability to follow his instinct is a GOOD thing to have in a cop.
It is that intuition that would prevent several of the police shootings we have had. :twocents:

Gavin de Becker books should be required reading for everyone. :twocents:
The Gift of Fear is my person favorite. It makes perfect sense to me.

http://www.amazon.com/Gavin-de-Becker/e/B001HCVD06/ref=dp_byline_cont_book_1