• #121
“What I’m feeling is hate. I’m not going to lie, I feel hate ... I just want my daughter,” he said.

According to Chatman, his daughter’s mother had been avoiding him and moving around a lot, with the last time he saw her was to help buy clothes for kindergarten.

“I don’t get how you can hate your kids enough to kill them. To bury them. To do all this, go right to that home, and live there when your kids are right here. Go be a mother to another child, while you just killed your other two,” he said.
‘Denied all access’: Father of girl found dead with half-sister says he was searching for her for years

I want to tell this poor man he never will get it. This is something we here at WS struggle with daily. How do these parents do it? Heinously abusing some while providing loving care to another? It defies explanation. It's unconscionable.
 
  • #122
i wonder if they were kept somewhere else and then moved.

burying in suitcases strikes me as a weird thing to do. i'm guessing it's pretty uncommon? i wonder if the bodies were originally kept in the suitcases somewhere else (basement? attic?), and then moved later. maybe by the end of the summer or some time in fall the smell got unbearable? then she buries them outdoors, not removing from the bodies from the suitcases because decomposition was already advanced, and/or mentally avoiding the reminder of who they were and what she did. then the winter weather refrigerates the remains until this week.

I've followed cases here in the past that involved victim dismemberment, suitcases, etc. That method is often used when the killer wants to dispose of victims, but is in close proximity to other people who would see and report them, e.g. shared homes, apartment bldgs., hotel rooms, neighbors living close by, etc.

Burying them close by might have been done because the killer didn't have access to a car. Probably did it late at night. May have had a difficult time digging a hole due to lack of a shovel. This area is just beginning to thaw after a very cold winter with temps daily below zero. It's possible the ground was still partially frozen below the surface.
 
  • #123
No criminal history... but two children dying, presumably close together... my mind goes to drugs. Accidental overdose?

But do the charges fit with that?

JMO
 
  • #124
I've followed cases here in the past that involved victim dismemberment, suitcases, etc. That method is often used when the killer wants to dispose of victims, but is in close proximity to other people who would see and report them, e.g. shared homes, apartment bldgs., hotel rooms, neighbors living close by, etc.

ahhh, ok. she was in the middle of the suburbs.
 
  • #125
No criminal history... but two children dying, presumably close together... my mind goes to drugs. Accidental overdose?

But do the charges fit with that?

JMO
I am wondering about accidental OD due to neglect or some other death due to extreme neglect. Did she lock them in a room and just forget them in there as they starved as she went on living as if they didn't exist? Did she leave drugs laying around? I agree, it is most likely that both died at the same time or nearly the same time period.

Why is the third child still living and in good health? Is that child younger and from a third father? Did this mother have more resources in the way of family members to care for that child but not the others?
 
  • #126
No criminal history... but two children dying, presumably close together... my mind goes to drugs. Accidental overdose?

But do the charges fit with that?

JMO
kids get into it. one tries some, tells her sister to try some to. i could see that.

except that seems accidental, and with an accident i would think the inclination would be to call 911. maybe the "but i'd get in trouble for having the drugs" was an inhibition, but i'd think with your babies dying and any possibility of saving them (real or just perceived), most people would still make the call.

i'm thinking overwhelmed parent who couldn't handle them anymore, and had some aversion to alternatives. fit of rage or premeditated like the melodee buzzard case.
 
  • #127
I wonder if this could be a case of 'death by natural cause', and the mother not wanting and/or able to afford a proper burial, as the girls were so close by.
Or maybe accidental deaths? I just don't understand how we got here. We see a picture of her bringing her daughters to a clinic, we see a picture of what looks like a nice, clean place with nice furniture, nice toys, kids that look well-fed, well-groomed... What happened? And they're buried right across the street? Why those two and not the other child? I hope we get some answers because this just doesn't make sense to me.
 
  • #128
Or maybe accidental deaths? I just don't understand how we got here. We see a picture of her bringing her daughters to a clinic, we see a picture of what looks like a nice, clean place with nice furniture, nice toys, kids that look well-fed, well-groomed... What happened? And they're buried right across the street? Why those two and not the other child? I hope we get some answers because this just doesn't make sense to me.
which causes me to further speculate that the living child in the household may have been younger than their deceased half sisters. Perhaps a new boyfriend in the form of that child's father was in the picture? we've seen cases in the past where the new man doesn't like the inconvenience of the prior relationship children being underfoot. We've seen those new men kill the children and we've also seen mothers murder their own kids to pacify the new man and build a brand new family with him.
 
  • #129
Friends, it's always abuse or neglect. Maybe the story involves something else, like mental illness, drugs, an abusive new partner, etc. But we can assume they had Medicaid or similar, and she would have pursued medical help for them, unless she had something to hide.

She was already keeping them away from a father who cared, other relatives, and a school education. Things were not right in their lives for a long time.
My opinions only.
 
  • #130
This is crazy. How do two children of that age go missing, and nobody noticed?
As @nao suggested, unstable living arrangements.

In the past, my family provided a variety of support to at risk type youth- so long as they were not inherent safety risks and followed our rules. A certain number had pretty fluid living conditions in that they "stayed" places, But did not live anywhere.

For example, one teenager moved from their mother's home when mom got distracted with a new boyfriend who was not kid friendly.

She, went to a friend's house for a bit, then to the home of a distant relative who could not guarantee school attendance. We took her in with the relative's affirmation and mom's direct permission. We could not guarantee school attendance either, but....we took her to school with one of our daughters. So.... more likely to stay there, once there.

She lived with us for 3 months, then she was back to Mom's house as unfriendly boyfriend was gone. Stayed there for about 9 months until mom's drug usage increased and groceries got erratic. Then..... moved into a friend's house whose mother was, well, more uhmm.... "weed friendly" than us. Then, then.... back to our house, but just for a few weeks. Then, back to mom.

Fortunately, she wound up with a responsible aunt. But.... as you can see, one can get lost in the shuffle.
 
  • #131
i wonder if they were kept somewhere else and then moved.

burying in suitcases strikes me as a weird thing to do. i'm guessing it's pretty uncommon? i wonder if the bodies were originally kept in the suitcases somewhere else (basement? attic?), and then moved later. maybe by the end of the summer or some time in fall the smell got unbearable? then she buries them outdoors, not removing from the bodies from the suitcases because decomposition was already advanced, and/or mentally avoiding the reminder of who they were and what she did. then the winter weather refrigerates the remains until this week.
I too wondered if she killed them months ago, and only buried them once the smell got too bad. But, she didn't actually "bury" them, not entirely at least. They were only partially buried. My guess is the ground was too hard in the winter from the ground being frozen to dig a deep enough hole cuz the 1 suitcase I've seen was rather large all the way around.

 
  • #132
No criminal history... but two children dying, presumably close together... my mind goes to drugs. Accidental overdose?

But do the charges fit with that?

JMO
My mind went to the 3rd child is much younger, and from a different (3rd) father, and she no longer wanted the 2 older ones any longer. Obvs JMO as I don't have evidence of the 3rd's age.
 
  • #133
  • #134
  • #135
Definition of Section 2903.01 - Aggravated murder charges in Ohio, linked here, and one excerpt copied below:

(C) No person shall purposely cause the death of another who is under thirteen years of age at the time of the commission of the offense.

Not that I need to squeeze more space into my heart for these terrible, terrible cases of murdered children, but I can't help it. The seeming rise in numbers of cases wherein children are neglected to death, allowed to die from accidental OD deaths, simply killed by parent(s) or caregivers or otherwise erased is really troubling to me.

What is being signalled?

And what could have happened here, in this awful case? IMO, some kind of desperation must have taken hold, but what kind?
 
  • #136
What I've been wondering, Aliyah, is did you ever look out an upstairs window over toward where you buried your daughters? Did you feel any remorse? Any sadness? Did you ever look over in their direction when driving or walking by? Did you ever think about them? Dream about them? Did you ever miss them? Did/do you even care?
 
  • #137
I know at one point you cared, Aliyah, as I've seen pictures that tell me that. But when and why did you stop caring?
 
  • #138
Has "homeschooling" struck yet again?
Maybe, but then "public schooling" has struck many, many times as well. So... I don't know.

What I do know is that there are various forms of criminals in both the public school and home schooling arenas. I strongly, suspect, however, that home schooling is no more inherently dangerous to a child than public schooling.
 
  • #139
What happened? Just saying there had to be warning signs. All along there must have been signs.

I suspect there were warning signs. But, those signs could have been posted in a particular area or venues where there are many such signs and few resources to check them with.

Likewise, noticing warning signs and being able to legally take pre-emptive action on based on what somebody "might" do can be two different things.
 
  • #140
Maybe, but then "public schooling" has struck many, many times as well. So... I don't know.

What I do know is that there are various forms of criminals in both the public school and home schooling arenas. I strongly, suspect, however, that home schooling is no more inherently dangerous to a child than public schooling.
I have to agree with you on that. MOO
 

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